'king ignorant car drivers

[yashicamat]

It is a real shame when the motoring community are represented by people with the IQ of a frozen pea. This incident occured just about half an hour ago, on a reasonably fast downhill section of wide (old trunk) road. It's a 30mph limit, I'm the cyclist (making good progress anyway, I was doing over 25mph on the flat prior to the hill). There is a Renault Megane following me, but not overtaking me (probably because I was keeping up with the car in front). As we go down the hill, my speed accelerates to about 37mph (indicated on my calibrated cyclocomputer, so on a car speedo it's probably showing over 40mph). At this point, I'd like to just remind folks that might not be aware that speed limits don't apply to non-motorised vehicles (although obviously it is important to be in full control of the vehicle, motorised or not). I checked over my shoulder and the car following me was still behind me.

In the dip of the hill before it starts climbing, there is a utterly ridiculous cycle lane that appears, then veers off into a side road before coming out of the other side. Fine for a child and parents doing 5mph, but I'm trying to conserve momentum so I can carry some speed up the hill on the other side. I therefore remain on the carriageway (note that I have not changed my road position as the cycle lane appears from a recess rather than tapers). As I pass the silly junction and pull over into the cycle lane where it becomes a 'normal' cycle lane, I nearly fall off my bike thanks to the car standing on his horn and alarming me. Next minute, he's alongside, window down, abuse etc. "you're a cyclist, use the cycle lane" etc etc. I did try to point out that he had been breaking the law while I was well within it and that cycle lanes are not mandatory and I quote from the highway code:

[Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24)]

61

Cycle Routes and Other Facilities. Use cycle routes, advanced stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan crossings unless at the time it is unsafe to do so. Use of these facilities is not compulsory and will depend on your experience and skills, but they can make your journey safer.

Unfortunately, the motorist in question wasn't prepared to stop and 'discuss' the matter, despite my suggesting this. If I posted this in a cycling forum, I am sure I'd get a flood of support . . . but there is a degree of bias (and also plenty of examples of idiot cyclists on many forums too).

Can I put this to the people of Briskoda - was I really in the wrong here? This has happened many times at this location too, where people almost universally exceed the 30mph limit.

Edited 20 May, 2010 by yashicamat

[ChrisRs]

At least you didnt gob on his bonnet!

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/160110-unbelievable-incident-on-the-way-home/page__view__findpost__p__1968778__fromsearch__1

[shark_90]

The fact that you know, and can quote, the highway code section to the letter is precisely the reason why you won't get any support from car drivers

[yashicamat]

The fact that you know, and can quote, the highway code section to the letter is precisely the reason why you won't get any support from car drivers

Well, I must admit a degree of googling for that one. I did already know the gist behind the regulation (i.e., that they're not mandatory and don't have to be used if considered unsafe) but had to extract the quote from the direct.gov website.

[Lornak]

I like your post, yashicamat.

[Captain Scarlet]

I can't see how you were in the wrong there. As you say you have the option to use the cycle lane but as you were making good speed why not stay on the carriageway.

[danroly]

surely the car should have just given you room anyway.........sure there is somthing in the code about courtesey to other road users. i never know why car drivers get mad with cyclists. its not exactly hard to slow down give room then overtake when safe. too many people in too much of a hurry. :no:

[matt_theforce]

I think you were perfectly in the right doing what you did, I too am a cyclist and would probably have done the very same thing (although much slower).

I do agree though, people tend to grow horns while driving cars and very vocal but to scared to stop and get out to discuss matters properly because

a. they are macho in their tin can

b. know they were in the wrong

c. dont like being slowed down for a couple of seconds

[Brimma]

You get my support every time

If I'm out on a ride averaging say 18 mph, I will not use a narrow, often badly finished, cycle path, where you'll more than likely meet either pedestrians or 'pleasure' cyclists pottering along at 5-10mph

Equally I'd suggest not giving the finger (or two) to all car drivers who lean on their horn, as there's always a risk you'll come across some ignorant t@sser who'll want to stop and pick a fight

Much more irritating for them is to give them a friendly wave and acknowledgement - then they've got no excuse to get @rsey with you

Edited 20 May, 2010 by Brimma

[Lady Elanore]

Twice today I had drivers overtake and then pull in to their drives just in front of me, causing me to brake heavily and curse a bit.

Funnily enough on my regular route there is an open right hand bend with a cycle lane and I always avoid it like the plague. I once had an altercation with a motorist over it and I tried and failed to impress my point on him. My argument was not only are cycle lanes not mandatory and that car drivers pull into them at random to have ‘look up the road’ in heavy traffic but they are often unsafe to ride in. The shape of the road pushes all the ‘sharps’ such as flint, glass, thorns screws and nails etc into the lane and to ride in it would almost certainly blow out tyre and as they are running at about 110-120psi they wouldn’t take long to go down

I now cycle with flashing leds all the time, although it still doesn’t seem to make a blind bit of difference as motorist are always pulling out in front of me at side roads (they are in a hurry to get out and don’t look carefully).

You have my complete sympathy with your plight.

[allclownsareevi]

The problem with cyclists is that they often have this "holier than thou" attitude to the road. Quoting road laws is all well and good but come on it's not about the law .... or are you seriously telling me nobody here has done 40mph in a 30 zone? If you're that bothered about the law, then hurry down the cop shop and confess about your speeding right now.

Fact is, around here there are plenty of main roads which the council has spent a fortune putting in cycle paths. When some fool neglects to use a perfectly good cycle path it can force everyone else to slow down to a snail's pace. What infuriates me more is seeing young mothers with their kids in a seat on the back of their bike, using the 50mph road instead of the cycle path! It's dangerous for the drivers and moreso for the cyclists. Use the cycle path if there is one. Cyclist say they want courtesy from other road users, well it works both ways.

If cyclists want better cycle paths, then perhaps some form of cycle tax is due? Cyclist never complain about how you so often see a bike rider ignore a red light by ducking onto the pavement. Or how they don't bother stopping at zebra crossings. Essentially cyclist often pick and choose which rules of the road to abide by.

As for your original post, doesn't sound like you were in the wrong to be fair, just a case of an idiot driver.

Here's the thing: I cycle myself 3-4 times a week and yeah some car drivers can be entirely ignorant of you but in fairness, cyclists can be to.

Edited: because I can't spell for toffee it seems :yes:

Edited 20 May, 2010 by allclownsareevi

[Brimma]

Cycle paths as far as I am concerned were made for pleasure cyclists who are probably not confident enough or capable enough to cycle on the road. They were not meant for serious cyclists who regularly train or ride near evens (20 mph) and above

Car drivers seem to have a blinkered view that cyclists MUST ride on the cyclepath, and not on THEIR road

Wake up and smell the coffee - motorists do not own the road, and to bring out the old road tax chestnut is both meaningless and pathetic

I pay road tax for my car the same as the next man/woman, and while I'm riding my bike I obviously can't be driving my car, so maybe I should pay a REDUCED road tax

Rant over

Edited 20 May, 2010 by Brimma

[Lady Elanore]

Cycle paths are rendered almost useless by the councils as they don’t clean them very often, hence my earlier post about all the ‘sharps’ in them. Plus they have all the drains and drainage pot holes to contend with too and the inability to be able to move both left and right to avoid an obstacle is pretty ridiculous sometimes (if you have to swerve hard left you hit the kerb).

I drive 20-30K a year and today cycled my regular 25 mile training route, so I have a foot in both camps too.

[yashicamat]

Wake up and smell the coffee - motorists do not own the road, and to bring out the old road tax chestnut is both meaningless and pathetic

I pay road tax for my car the same as the next man/woman, and while I'm riding my bike I obviously can't be driving my car, so maybe I should pay a REDUCED road tax

Plus, unless I'm much mistaken, 'road tax' actually has little contribution to the highway network per se, which generally comes from the local government coffers which are in turn filled by council tax, that everyone pays . . .

Thanks for the replies everyone, it makes for some interesting reading and I'm glad that people seem to generally agree with me. I was speaking to my father an hour ago and he said he has had numerous conflicts there in very similar situations. He cited one exceptionally vocal and abusive individual . . the description of whom seemed familiar . . . and who was driving a blue Renault Megane. :wonder:

[Lady Elanore]

Actually I am quite wound up about cycle lanes now. I have been a regular roadie for 25 years in Manchester and since we got cycle lanes I have picked up more punctures than ever. The tyres have always been roughly the same (18mm when I was young and 23mm now I need a bit of comfort) and the pressures between 100psi (wet day) and 120 (dry fast day) so I conclude that the main difference is the ruddy cycle lanes.

Rant over …………………….for now.

I am off for a Magnum lolly

[allclownsareevi]

Wake up and smell the coffee - motorists do not own the road, and to bring out the old road tax chestnut is both meaningless and pathetic

I pay road tax for my car the same as the next man/woman, and while I'm riding my bike I obviously can't be driving my car, so maybe I should pay a REDUCED road tax

Rant over

That's a little patronising. At which point did you hear me say motorists own the road? My post said nothing of the sort, quite the contrary in fact. As for the tax, you're still using the road whichever way you look at it, especially you, because you think cycle paths are for lesser cyclists. My point is, yeah drivers will get annoyed when there's a cycle path, yet the cyclist still uses the road, holding everyone up.

My my, touchy subject this huh?

[Brimma]

I am off for a Magnum lolly

A few more of those might provide some extra padding Amanda

I used to ride 20's, but I've moved on to 23's too :S

[Brimma]

That's a little patronising. At which point did you hear me say motorists own the road? My post said nothing of the sort, quite the contrary in fact. As for the tax, you're still using the road whichever way you look at it, especially you, because you think cycle paths are for lesser cyclists. My point is, yeah drivers will get annoyed when there's a cycle path, yet the cyclist still uses the road, holding everyone up.

Patronising - I don't think so

I can ride a bike, and I never asked for cycle paths to be put in

I totally with you regarding my view about lesser cyclists though

My comment re owning the road was by inference, since you seem to take the view that all cyclists should use the cycle path, thereby insinuating that the road is only for motorists

OK ?

[allclownsareevi]

My comment re owning the road was by inference, since you seem to take the view that all cyclists should use the cycle path, thereby insinuating that the road is only for motorists

Yes precisely. When there's a cycle path you should be using it. Your entire point about not using the cycle path was that when you use them you encounter slower moving traffic? So, that'd much like any other road user then? We all encounter slower moving traffic Brimma, tough titty, deal with it. By that logic, next time someone is going slower than me I could just drive on the cycle path no?

So what if you didn't ask for cycle paths, there'll be tons of stuff you didn't ask for but it's still a good idea. I regularly use my bike on the roads too but as a general rule I don't see why my slower moving bike should hold up faster moving traffic if there's no need to. Sorry but it's just basic common sense. Likewise if I'm driving my car I'll give cyclists a wide berth and consideration.

[Brimma]

Yes precisely. When there's a cycle path you should be using it. Your entire point about not using the cycle path was that when you use them you encounter slower moving traffic? So, that'd much like any other road user then? We all encounter slower moving traffic Brimma, tough titty, deal with it. By that logic, next time someone is going slower than me I could just drive on the cycle path no?

:rofl: :rofl:

[Lady Elanore]

When I am travelling at 20mph+ and in my younger days could approach moped speeds with a tail wind, I would certainly think it would be incredibly dangerous to share a path anywhere near pedestrians!!!!!!

As for Cycle lanes, they are an poorly conceived idea by people who aren't real roadies on their bikes. I for one will never used them as I have no wish to have any more accidents than I do already.

[Lady Elanore]

I used to ride 20's, but I've moved on to 23's too

I used to love Super Comp HDs in the narrower sizes, but you can’t get them now. Only slick I ever felt comfortable with in the wet.

[Brimma]

As for Cycle lanes, they are an poorly conceived idea by people who aren't real roadies on their bikes. I for one will never used them as I have no wish to have any more accidents than I do already.

Better make sure you avoid the poster above then - but then again you'll be fine, as he'll just drive on the cycle track

[MoggyTech]

The Renault driver was clearly wrong. Anyone who buys a Renault is wrong in the head. Renault+French=Merd

[Gwilo]

Yashicamat - i don't think you were in the wrong - given your speed, to attempt to peel off for the cycle lane might realistically have put you under the front wheels of said renault driver......doubt he'd have been too pleased about that, either.

Couple of things relating to cycle-lanes, cyclists and motorists.

Yes, there is a need for tolerance and courtesy, but as has been mentioned, this is a two way street - while a motorist can cause infinitely more damage to some lycra-clad Chris Hoy wannabe, and should quite rightly give them a wide berth (I was always taught to give the distance of an open car door wherever possible, and to not go past "suddenly"), some of the more militant pedal-pushers seem to think there's a competition on to see who can ride the closest to the rear* or side of a car in traffic. If the motorist did that to you, you'd be up in arms and calling them all sorts of names........

Secondly cycle lanes.......whoever designs these things is a complete jackass. They appear out of nowhere, then disappear just as quickly. If cycling is to be taken up seriously as a mode of personal transport, then provide a comprehensive route network that is actually usable - i tried to cycle to the gym the other day - there's a 0.2 mile section on cycle lane on the entire 2 mile journey, just plonked in the middle of a fast flowing dipping section of road. And it's barely wide enough to accommodate a single cycle - handlebars where outside the lane, and i'm wider than those.

I would love to cycle to work, but if town-planners and highways departments force cyclists into these artificial lanes grafted onto an already cramped arterial road network - are they seriously expecting everyone to just get along, all smiles, peace and love? Give me a break. It's a recipe for conflict, injury and sadly, sometime worse.

* - to the tour-de-france-jersey-toting gimp who rode up to the rear of my car at speed in the city centre last week, despite clearly seeing the stop-start traffic queue crawling along. You had ample time to slow down and/or adjust your line. If you stand on the brakes at the last minute and then bang your fist like that on my boot again, might i remind you that you're soft & squishy and that I'm sat in a 1.4 tonne hunk of steel with a temperamental and not entirely reliable auto-releasing handbrake..........

Edited 21 May, 2010 by Gwilo