1.2 TSI DSG(105) or 1.6 TDI (105)?

[Matty Le Swan]

Hi everybody,

I intend to order a fabia elegance estate with the Elba alloys, metallic, spare wheel and under seat storage, in the next week or so. The only thing I haven't made my mind up about is the engine.

I drove a 1.2 tsi in the Yeti and was seriously impressed with the engine. But I do quite a few long motorway trips and the economy of the diesel appeals. I've been reading some very mixed (and some really poor) reviews of the VW 1.6 tdi CR. I've got a test drive booked in for the diesel early next week and hope to place my order thereafter.

Has anybody driven both engines?

Also, I intend to keep the car for between 3 and 5 years and have read on honestjohn that both cars are belt driven and will require new timing belts in year 4. What does this cost?

Thanks for your help.

Some lovely looking fabias on this section of the forum.

Cheers

Matt

[Skodaboy1983]

I've not driven the engines mentioned but I would IMHO go for the 1.2TSI mate, Mike Wrightson on this forum has one and is very impressed with it and I think it returns not to bad MPG either and in a Fabia I think it will feel qite nippy as well.

[Allams Skoda]

1.2TSi 105PS!!

It's great!

The TSi engine costs less than the 105CR engine which will cover the cost of the extra fuel it will use, and you'll get better driving pleasure out of the 105TSi engine.

It actually goes really very well indeed and is excellent to drive with plenty of power and economy is good.

Plus if you like automatics you can get the 7 speed DSG gearbox with it which is superb.

[GoneToBeemer]

1.2TSi 105PS!!

It's great!

The TSi engine costs less than the 105CR engine which will cover the cost of the extra fuel it will use, and you'll get better driving pleasure out of the 105TSi engine.

It actually goes really very well indeed and is excellent to drive with plenty of power and economy is good.

Plus if you like automatics you can get the 7 speed DSG gearbox with it which is superb.

Totally agree! My mother is taking delivery of a 1.2 TSI DSG on Tuesday. I test drove the one in the showroom - that was a manual but was so impressed by that little engine, so much better than the 1.5 Swift she has now!

[Guest]

Matty, I have now driven both these engines. Both fantastic. I'm a confirmed diesel fan but I confess the TSI petrol was nice. The only critiscm of the TSI was the turbo lag (annoying at times) that didn't appear at all pronounced on the diesel. This may have been me expecting it to behave too much like a diesel. However, for me the considerable extra power (torque) of the diesel wins everytime. It had massive wallop, even compared to the TSI engine which can 'only' muster up 175nm or torque compared to 240nm for the 1.6cr. Dont get me wrong, the TSI is amazing to produce that amount of power, but the extra power and economy of the diesel was considerable and will pay for the additional cost of the car easily in the time period you are expecting to own it. Go take that test drive and see what you think. Please post back with your thoughts. Good luck.

[runboy]

We will be getting our 1.2TSI 105 DSG on Monday so will comment then. However I took out a new shape Polo 1.2TSI 105 manual and was very impressed with the power of the engine, especially considering it was a new engine with a few miles on the clock so still had time to improve.

What is the purchase price difference between the petrol and diesel? Also does servicing costs differ between the two? Always worth working out the sums as you might have to do a lot more miles in the diesel to make it worth while on the cost front. However if you just want it for the power then go with whichever one you prefer.

[The Plumber]

My wife only got her Fabia TSI 85 yesterday so I can only comment so far on how very quite it is. Fuel wise I expect it to match or better my diesel 4x4 Yeti and I think you mentioned it being a belt driven cam, it's actually chain driven

, oh and one other bonus it's a Skoda engine

Regards,

TP

[Ross Chapman]

Petrol - i have the manual version of the 105 and its an absolute hoot. I find the turbo kick-in quite violent but its starting to calm down now - although you can still tell in the first three gears when the turbo come into play just over 2,000 rpm.

[Matty Le Swan]

Thanks for all the responses - I appreciate you all taking the time to come back to me.

Ross - so you have the manual TSI 105... at 70mph on the motorway, what are you revs? I spend quite a bit of time on the motorway, so this factor is important to me. I understand that the diesel is at 2000 RPM at 70mph. And if you floor it at 70, how much grunt have you got left? In fact are there any mid-range performance specs for the TSI?

TP - Thanks for the video link. That's interesting and answers my query about the drive belt. I have to confess to being completely ignorant when it comes to mechanics.

Estate Man - Thanks for your comparison of both engines. I currently have a 1.6 HDI Citroen C5 (new shape) which is approx 400kg heavier than the Fabia Estate but has similar power output. The little diesel engine does an admirable job of hauling the considerable bulk of the C5 around, but when pressed it has little to offer before 1900RPM and runs out of breath once you get past 2500 RPM. I love diesels and my last 3 cars have been diesel, but despite the diesel having more torque it's for a much narrower band of the revs than in the TSI. It was the TSI's flexibility that really impressed me in the Yeti.

All that said, the diesel offers cheaper car tax and fewer trips to the pumps and those things really appeal. Although the DPF on the diesel doesn't. I can't help feeling that this is makeshift technology to ensure compliance with emissions regs and that a better solution will quickly replace them, making this generation of diesel engines an unattractive second hand proposition. But then again, I'm not mechanically minded and don't really know what I'm talking about!!

Thanks again guys. test drive booked in for Monday so will post back with further thoughts soon after.

Best wishes.

Matt

[Matty Le Swan]

oops

Edited 10 September, 2010 by Matty Le Swan

[Allams Skoda]

For comparision. The 1.2TSi produces 175Nm @ 1550rpm where as the Honda 2.0vtec engine produces 193Nm at 5,600rpm.

It's a pretty clever little beastie.

The fact that the diesel is less to tax and cheaper to run is somewhat cancelled out by the fact that it's a grand more than the petrol, unless you are going to be keeping it for a particularly long time.

[Matty Le Swan]

For comparision. The 1.2TSi produces 175Nm @ 1550rpm where as the Honda 2.0vtec engine produces 193Nm at 5,600rpm.

It's a pretty clever little beastie.

The fact that the diesel is less to tax and cheaper to run is somewhat cancelled out by the fact that it's a grand more than the petrol, unless you are going to be keeping it for a particularly long time.

Looking at the prices I'm using as a guide (drivethedeal) there's circa £250 difference between 1.2TSI DSG 105 and TDI CR 105. So not as clear cut as that given that the savings on road tax over 3 years would pretty much recoup the difference in price.

Used to have a Honda VTEC which just felt really lethargic until cranked up to about 4,500 Revs. Best car I ever owned though!!

[Matty Le Swan]

[Allams Skoda]

How did the driver get the MFD to display the speed in large font like that?

[paully]

Matty

I`ve got the 1.2 Tsi 105 estate and at 70mph it will be doing about the same revs as the diesel ie 2000 whilst travelling in 5th gear. If you need to increase speed, you can do so gently without changing down, but if you do change down I think you`ll find it has all the grunt you`ll need ...Very impressive engine. Ultra quiet on tick over and even when you thrap it. I went from a diesel car to this one and I dont regret it....Best of luck

[Mike Wrightson]

My 5-speed TSI runs at 2600rpm at 70mph, it will still pick up from that speed in 5th quite happily, though after 80mph it will drop off as air resistance builds up. At 40mph it is pulling just short of 1500rpm in 5th, and it will pull from there too. I've never needed to change down for motorway hills yet. Combine that with cruising economy approaching 50mpg and it makes a strong case for itself. Very impressed with this engine.

I've driven the 1.6 TDI in my Dad's Octavia, and it pulls that car around well, so in the lighter Fabia it should be even better. I was impressed how smooth and quiet it was, and it had a good powerband. You do have to keep it above 1750rpm or it doesn't want to know.

Ultimate economy will be won by the diesel, but it depends how much mileage you will be doing. I'd estimate that if you're doing 15K miles per year or more, the diesel is the best choice. Under that and the petrol could work out cheaper.

Good luck on your test drives, they are both excellent engines whichever you go for

[don_kiddik]

I took out the 1.2 TSI DSG Fabia on a test drive as my partner has been advised to get an automatic due to problems with her shoulder (Tendons shot at and hard to change gears comfortably) and have to admit was mightily impressed, so much so have ordered the estate version in Elegance spec, just have to wait till December now :'(

[threadbear]

At present, there seem to be very few Fabias with the new TDi CR engine about with the consequence that there are few owners able to give any feed back on this common rail engine.

I should be getting mine in the next 2 weeks and will be able to give some feed back in due course. Obviously the TSi engine sounds great but I dont regret my decision of ordering a diesel.

Regards

Grahame

[Matty Le Swan]

Thanks for all the responses.

My test drive has been cancelled until Wednesday, so I'm a little frustrated because I want to make my decision and get the car ordered.

Reading around the forum, the 1.6 TDI CR is getting a bit of a slating in the Octavia. It sounds as if performance wise it's desperately lacking below 1800 RPM and in terms of economy it's not delivering anything like the mfctr claimed figures. I don't like the reports of frequent stalling... this seems to detract from the relaxed and torquey charactersitic of diesels that I have grown to enjoy in my previous 3 diesel cars.

Also, do I detect that Skoda's excellent build quality has taken a turn for the worst recently? One thing I am looking forwards to as I apporach the end of my current lease deal, is handing back my squeeky and rattley Citroen C5 and stepping into a well built, sturdy Skoda free of such annoyances!! Some of the comments around the forum suggest that the newer generation of Skoda cars may not be as well screwed together. Any opinions on this?

Edited 13 September, 2010 by Matty Le Swan

[Ross Chapman]

Thanks for all the responses - I appreciate you all taking the time to come back to me.

Ross - so you have the manual TSI 105... at 70mph on the motorway, what are you revs? I spend quite a bit of time on the motorway, so this factor is important to me. I understand that the diesel is at 2000 RPM at 70mph. And if you floor it at 70, how much grunt have you got left? In fact are there any mid-range performance specs for the TSI?

2,200 in 5th, your on boost so it goes like a train when you floor it. You still have another 4,000 rpm to use.

Believe it will top 100 in 4th, and easily over 140 in 5th if its gear ratios are spaced the way i think they are (its top speed equals the DSG fitted version which has another gear - only the vRS has the 7 gear DSG box)

[Fabia00]

The 1.2 Tsi has the dry clutch 7 speed dsg as well as the vrs, revs seem nice and low on the manual tsi so hopefully be about 2000rpm on the dsg. The dsg does have higher extra urban mpg in the brochure as well.

[Matty Le Swan]

My 5-speed TSI runs at 2600rpm at 70mph

Thanks Mike.

2600 RPM sounds fairly high? Is it loud at that speed?

My C5 runs at 2500 RPM at 70 and on a long journey it's a bit of a drone - and that's in an otherwise refined car with lots of soundproofing.

Edited 13 September, 2010 by Matty Le Swan

[Matty Le Swan]

2,200 in 5th, your on boost so it goes like a train when you floor it. You still have another 4,000 rpm to use.

Thanks Ross,

Did you see Mike's post? He says he's at 2,600RPM at 70. I prefer the idea of 2,200 and would probably gor for the manual 1.2 TSI if this is the case.

In fact, having seen TP's lovely blue Fabia, I think I'd go for that colour too and save myself a few more £'s!!!

Thanks again for the response.

Matt

Edited 13 September, 2010 by Matty Le Swan

[Mike Wrightson]

Thanks Mike.

2600 RPM sounds fairly high? Is it loud at that speed?

My C5 runs at 2500 RPM at 70 and on a long journey it's a bit of a drone - and that's in an otherwise refined car with lots of soundproofing.

Actually, that's quite low for a petrol. Compare with my previous Hyundai Coupe (3400rpm) a Suzuki Swift Sport (3800rpm) and a Swift 1.5 (3500rpm). The DSG will run at lower revs as 7th gear is longer I believe.

You really can't hear the engine at that speed when cruising, it's quieter than the tyre and wind noise. Not that it's unbearably loud. It's a quiet engine with a cheeky rasp to it when you stir it up.

Build quality still seems very good. I have one knock in my drivers door that I'll get the dealer to sort, the only other rattle is my sunglasses in the overhead holder Some materials have changed, but they are still screwed together well.

Edited 13 September, 2010 by Mike Wrightson

[Matty Le Swan]

Actually, that's quite low for a petrol. Compare with my previous Hyundai Coupe (3400rpm) a Suzuki Swift Sport (3800rpm) and a Swift 1.5 (3500rpm). The DSG will run at lower revs as 7th gear is longer I believe.

Cheers Mike.

I'm in a right quandry now :S !

The thought of saving a bit of cash by going for 1.2TSI manual is very appealing. Hmmmmm. In a perverse sort of way I really hope that I don't like the 1.6 TDI CR when I drive it on Wednesday, it will make the decision a lot easier.