Any 1.8TSi owners with Shark remap?

[Yeti_Man]

Nice to have some lively debate.

Good to hear people say Shark is the best in the UK, not sure a very good choice of a business name but there you go.

Keep up the passion, a few more facts would be nice though rather than hyperbole!

Personally Im more interested in the abilities of the company and the quality of the product rather than the companies name - maybe thats just me of course. Oh and I actually I think 'Shark Performance' is an awesome name but each to their own as I say.

Im guessing by the last statement you've never actually talked to Shark Performance? Out of all the tuners Ive dealt with Shark are without doubt the most 'factful' of any of them.

[rockhopper]

I've been impressed with Ben's openness as well. He didn't try to sell me anything, but gave me advice on what to look for, neither did he slate the competition.

When the time comes, he will get my business.

Mike

[CEPi]

Same here. I sat down with Ben while he remaped the ECU and he explained step by step how and what is being done. No black magic, no secrets, no waiting on another room. Just a pleasant homely feel. Top man!

[Yeti_Man]

Same here. I sat down with Ben while he remaped the ECU and he explained step by step how and what is being done. No black magic, no secrets, no waiting on another room. Just a pleasant homely feel. Top man!

That was exactly my experience also!

[bandrew465]

Nice to have some lively debate.

Good to hear people say Shark is the best in the UK, not sure a very good choice of a business name but there you go. Need to update you website as still showing Top Gear show, perferred the Bike Show myself.

If I was going to get a remap, though as said I would probably change the car to achieve that rather than remap so the brakes and suspension matched the increased power, I would probably get it done in Germany where I find the information provided by the remappers is more informative. German mappers for a German engine.

Apologies for the earlier spelling mistakes, English was not my degree, English is an Arts degree not a Science degree. Arts degrees available of a roll on the wall in the smallest room for wiping one's A"".

Keep up the passion, a few more facts would be nice though rather than hyperbole!

Let's face it, your degree means very little! I meet people every day who have degrees, and are useless at their job, hence they pay me (with no degree) to go in and sort out the companies these arrogant idiots run.

To think that your edcuation makes you a better person sums you up fella!

Andy

[shark_tech]

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Very length sales blurb and without a single fact pertaining to engine data backing up claims of ability to improve thermal effeciency without side effects Burning effeciency is almost 100% efficeint across all the useable engine range. There are issues of setting up engine on test beds and rolling roads as they are in lab conditions and not real road conditions ie often the Cat is running at a far lower temperature than normal operating conditions and hence emmissions are not what they should be when you are crawling on the M25 at 5 mph.

You may be able to convince some of the people some of the time with the smoke and mirrors but not me I am convince one bit. I use to work for Piper in the eighties and also hold an honours BSc at 2:1 level. You did not mentioned your qualifations. You are clear not dim though. Improving the Otto engine can be achieved by higher temperatures and/or higher compression ratio, as in a diesel has but I am no diesel fan in performance cars. Thanks for taking the time to write the above, I am sure it was not for my benefit but for others. If I can be so bold as to offer some advice. I suggest you focus on off road vehicles ie production racing or the like as I am almost certain that the EU will eventual make road car mapping difficult if not impossible. Having spent some time investigating road accidents car moding has been one of the contributing factors and subsequently affected people's licences and lives. What you do is no doubt fun and profitable but personally I would prefer it is left to automotive designers and not aftermarket sales for road cars and mcs where my family and I are driving on the same roads and walking on the pavements. As i said when I was in my twenties I modified motorcycles and did a degree placement at an aftermarket rolling road engineers but the vehicles are more complex now and the roads busier so best leave these things alone IMHO.

Unfortunately you clearly didn't read my post before commenting on it, or your undergraduate degree didn't involve much petrol engine theory.

You are saying "burning efficiency is almost 100% efficient across all the useable engine range", can I just say Oh My God, you must know better! Without a catalytic converter, these cars struggle to keep HC values below 100ppm. So not even all the fuel is being burnt, let alone all the energy in it released.

I'll ask this again. Are you really saying, that these engines reach almost 100% "burning efficiency"?

Your M25 at 5 mph example, if you read my post and understood it, you would notice I mentioned things such as OEM settings running slightly less ignition advance than optimal to keep EGT's hotter. When we cool down that process slightly, it automatically improves fuel efficiency.

Does it not?

You also talk about improving otto cycle efficiency by increasing compression ratio. Of course you do know that compression RATIO is constant, but compression PRESSURE changes by engine parameters. Air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber cares about the pressure, not the ratio.

That is what we're doing by changing the filling, does it not?

As you said, cars are getting more and more complex now, that's why it's best to understand these cars and engines properly, or leave them alone.

I don't work often with undergraduates, so I'm not sure if I just misunderstood your quite strange claims and I'd be happy to stand corrected if I got something wrong!

[lol-lol]

Let's face it, your degree means very little! I meet people every day who have degrees, and are useless at their job, hence they pay me (with no degree) to go in and sort out the companies these arrogant idiots run.

To think that your edcuation makes you a better person sums you up fella!

Andy

I think my degree has helped me get paid better salaries although I would also say that having a track record as a specialist in EU law, regimes and compliance auditing has probably helped more so I would agree having a degree, even a 2:1 science degree, has probably been less significant than other factors. I am more saddened that kids will not have the opportunities that I did. Sounds like you have the chip (not remap) not I matey.

Edited 13 December, 2010 by lol

[bandrew465]

lmao @ lol

A degree these days might as well just be sold on the internet, it's time that uni places were cut and frankly if someone is bright enough to go to uni they should also be bright enough to get a job where they can pay back a loan.

A

[lol-lol]

Unfortunately you clearly didn't read my post before commenting on it, or your undergraduate degree didn't involve much petrol engine theory.

You are saying "burning efficiency is almost 100% efficient across all the useable engine range", can I just say Oh My God, you must know better! Without a catalytic converter, these cars struggle to keep HC values below 100ppm. So not even all the fuel is being burnt, let alone all the energy in it released.

I'll ask this again. Are you really saying, that these engines reach almost 100% "burning efficiency"?

Your M25 at 5 mph example, if you read my post and understood it, you would notice I mentioned things such as OEM settings running slightly less ignition advance than optimal to keep EGT's hotter. When we cool down that process slightly, it automatically improves fuel efficiency.

Does it not?

You also talk about improving otto cycle efficiency by increasing compression ratio. Of course you do know that compression RATIO is constant, but compression PRESSURE changes by engine parameters. Air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber cares about the pressure, not the ratio.

That is what we're doing by changing the filling, does it not?

As you said, cars are getting more and more complex now, that's why it's best to understand these cars and engines properly, or leave them alone.

I don't work often with undergraduates, so I'm not sure if I just misunderstood your quite strange claims and I'd be happy to stand corrected if I got something wrong!

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Happy to correct you. Thermodynamics level one. I did Thermodynamics in both at OND and degree level and got high levels in both. (No one from Shark stepped forward with their academic CV) Try and go through point by point. Once the engine is warm I would expect the burning effeciency to be very nearly 100% ie CO and NO being less than 1%, what mappers can do is negligable in this area. Altering the igntion timing by a few degrees will make little difference in exhaust temperature and can do damage to other engine components.

Compression ratios is of course virtual constant for a particular engine, you can change cylinder pressures, when I was a marine engineer we could produce pressure-time maps to calculate area within the mapped shape and therefore calculate work produced. If you did know thermodynamics then you would know that the route to more power is running higher temperatures, and dumping to a lower one, running higher compression ratios and of course revs.

In reality remaps obtain more power by pushing the cylinder pressures higher ie beyond the original parameters which will result in higher bearing loads. On the 1.8 TSI one can argue that this is reasonable to do. The engine is the same EA888 engine as the petrol VRS of course. It's power peaks at 4500 rpm and one could consider keeping the torque at 250 Nm up to say 6000 rpm ie 215 hp approximately without loading any more torque on the engine (or gearbox which is limited to 250 Mn torque in the case of the 7 speed DSG). If, or perhaps when, I hear from someone who can remap, considering the 13 engine managment unit sensors, to do this sort of remap I would consider letting someone do this but I have not been convinced by anyone in this country yet that they could do this. I did come across a German remapper who quoted specific improvements in acceleration etc and just gave an air of knowledge. As I keep saying more verifable fact less hyperbole please.

Yes I have a 1.8TSI, no I do not have a remap and remain unconvinced, so far, that it is value for money and so I will spend money on better tyres, OE Bridgestone are poor, Mich PS3 like our TSI VRS will come soon and then just keep looking for the new Skoda models which I predict will be uprated engine and hybrid, eyes open.

Edited 13 December, 2010 by lol

[shark_90]

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(No one from Shark stepped forward with their academic CV)

GCSE A, B, 6xC and 2xD. AS level D D E. I then realised I was wasting my life and got a full time job (although I've worked part time since I was 13).

Does that help to convince you?

[shark_90]

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If, or perhaps when, I hear from someone who can remap, considering the 13 engine managment unit sensors, to do this sort of remap I would consider letting someone do this but I have not been convinced by anyone in this country yet that they could do this. I did come across a German remapper who quoted specific improvements in acceleration etc and just gave an air of knowledge. As I keep saying more verifable fact less hyperbole please.

Why not come and see us at the Autosport Engineering show in January? We will be there and would be happy to discuss it with you, and go through the mapping of a 1.8TSI and explain what we do and why?

[bandrew465]

GCSE A, B, 6xC and 2xD. AS level D D E. I then realised I was wasting my life and got a full time job (although I've worked part time since I was 13).

Does that help to convince you?

I was thinking you might not lower yourself to his level :-) Strange hes works in EU law with a Science degree :-0 I have a few mates who work for the GMC as lawyers and they all studied er law at uni.....

[shark_90]

I was thinking you might not lower yourself to his level :-)

I didn't think it was much to brag about, hence why I didn't mind posting it

[shark_tech]

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Happy to correct you. Thermodynamics level one. I did Thermodynamics in both at OND and degree level and got high levels in both. (No one from Shark stepped forward with their academic CV) Try and go through point by point. Once the engine is warm I would expect the burning effeciency to be very nearly 100% ie CO and NO being less than 1%, what mappers can do is negligable in this area. Altering the igntion timing by a few degrees will make little difference in exhaust temperature and can do damage to other engine components.

Compression ratios is of course virtual constant for a particular engine, you can change cylinder pressures, when I was a marine engineer we could produce pressure-time maps to calculate area within the mapped shape and therefore calculate work produced. If you did know thermodynamics then you would know that the route to more power is running higher temperatures, and dumping to a lower one, running higher compression ratios and of course revs.

In reality remaps obtain more power by pushing the cylinder pressures higher ie beyond the original parameters which will result in higher bearing loads. On the 1.8 TSI one can argue that this is reasonable to do. The engine is the same EA888 engine as the petrol VRS of course. It's power peaks at 4500 rpm and one could consider keeping the torque at 250 Nm up to say 6000 rpm ie 215 hp approximately without loading any more torque on the engine (or gearbox which is limited to 250 Mn torque in the case of the 7 speed DSG). If, or perhaps when, I hear from someone who can remap, considering the 13 engine managment unit sensors, to do this sort of remap I would consider letting someone do this but I have not been convinced by anyone in this country yet that they could do this. I did come across a German remapper who quoted specific improvements in acceleration etc and just gave an air of knowledge. As I keep saying more verifable fact less hyperbole please.

Yes I have a 1.8TSI, no I do not have a remap and remain unconvinced, so far, that it is value for money and so I will spend money on better tyres, OE Bridgestone are poor, Mich PS3 like our TSI VRS will come soon and then just keep looking for the new Skoda models which I predict will be uprated engine and hybrid, eyes open.

I'm usually teaching undergraduates and not working with them, so if some of my explanation goes beyond your understanding let me know, and I'll be happy to rephrase.

An internal combustion engine transfers energy stored in the fuel into kinetic energy in a process we call the Otto cycle.

In this process, we collect air and fuel into the combustion chamber, heat it up for it to ignite, and then remove it so there's room for the next dose.

In the beginning of this cycle, the fuel used has chemical energy stored within itself. This is mostly stored in the hydrocarbons that form petrol, along with some additives.

Now, when you say the burning "efficiency" is almost 100%, which of course we all know it is just utter rubbish, I would like to remind you the very basics you must've learnt back at school.

The adiabatic burn temp of petrol is over 2200C.

This means, that if the "burn efficiency" is 100%, you would see a flame front of about 2000C, but none of it would be transferred into movement (kinetic energy).

rQp - rWp = Up - Ur on a modern petrol engine, rWp = r int p * pdV = 0. In an adiabatic process rQp = 0, simply not true, issitnot?

That means, with your burn process, the engine wouldn't start at all.

Then,

η = 1 − r1 − γ

where γ = Cp / Cv

This is the maximum theoretical thermal efficiency of the Otto cycle. 100%? No way.

I understand, that with a low undergraduate degree it might be difficult, but since you brought the subject of science to the table. I just gave you all the values you require to calculate, how much is the efficiency of these engines. So stop the talk, and show it to us how its so close to 100% it hardly can be improved.

If you don't do that, I'll be more than happy to do that after you admit you've no clue what you are talking about.

For simplicity, we're using pure iso-octane and standard ISA.

[pist0nbr0ke]

[Raglits]

If, or perhaps when, I hear from someone who can remap, considering the 13 engine managment unit sensors, to do this sort of remap I would consider letting someone do this but I have not been convinced by anyone in this country yet that they could do this. I did come across a German remapper who quoted specific improvements in acceleration etc and just gave an air of knowledge. As I keep saying more verifable fact less hyperbole please.

I love this bit. Re-mapper produces figures for acceleration improvements and this means he's giving out facts

I don't know Ben, and have not yet spoken to him, but I have had a car re-mapped in the past. The tuner asked me what I was after rather than just upping the power to the max. I assume any decent tuner would do this and from what I've heard about Ben, this is the case with him.

It was my old Peugeot that I had remapped (diesel, not petrol) and it went from 109bhp to 137bhp, and max torque went up by about 20%. When flooring it was significantly quicker (about 1.5 seconds quicker to 60, but more importantly to me, about 4 seconds quicker from 30-70), but when driving normally, the mpg went from 42 before the remap, to 44 after the remap. This gave me the best of both worlds, quicker when I needed it and more economy during normal use. I drove this car for 60000 miles after the remap an it passed 3 MOTs during this time, the next owner was informed about the remap and the car was still running a year after I sold it as I saw it on the road at that point.

This sounds to me like improved efficiency, but there again, my Mechanical Engineering degree probably doesn't hold up to your Thermodynamics degree. I do remember that the average petrol engine was only about 20-25% average efficiency (think it's about 40% for diesels, although at comparable compression ratios a diesel is worse), with max efficiency being about 75% (the point of maximum torque). If you raise the amount of torque the engine produces, you raise the overall efficiency as you get more work out of the engine.

Yes, it may add a little stress to the mechanical components, but as they are over engineered in the first place to take into account people who don't service the car properly, poor quality fuel in other countries etc, then I don't really see this as an issue as long as you are sensible and properly maintain the vehicle

[CEPi]

So, as far as I am understanding this ECU remap thingy does improve performance in bed only for grils who have 1'st class honors degree? Correct me if I'm wrong but this is very unfair...

[vRSy]

@ LOL, you are my hero. i wish i had a degree. especially a 2-1. You sir are the best.

@ the admin staff, Please can you promote LOL to chief administator of the Octavia II technical section. The depth of knowledge in this guy is immense, he quite literally is the best thing since Anal Lube, which from reading his posts, it seems he might well be a fan.

In all seriousness this is boring. Whilst ill admit, your obviously a clever bloke, and proud of it, well done. But believe me your not the only one with a degree on here, nor the highest paid and quite probably not the cleverest. Your also not in the business of remapping, and evidently know jack **** about ECU remapping, as you have eluded to in previous posts, so why would you come on here spouting thermodynamics theorems(or Hyperbole as yuo like to call it) and put down other people who specialise in this line of work, have experience in this line of work and have a large following of very happy customers.

You think just because a german tuner quotes acceleration figures that they are the Mutts Nuts. That's just ridiculous. That is purely sales jargon for people such as yourself and other child like individuals, to make them think, Phooooaaaaaaarrrrrr i can tell my student mates that my cars well fast, all the girls in Mcdonalds car park are going to love me!!. And to be fair they probably wouldn't be worth the paper they are wrote on unless its from an independent source.

The other comment that makes me laugh is the 'i don't trust any tuner in the UK'. On what basis, no performance figures, bore off mate. I think you are the one and only guy i would recommend to go custom code, purely on the basis that you would then be correct in everything you say and can be well and truly chuffed that you are the man, the legend.

We salute you!!!!!

Edited 14 December, 2010 by janner_Sy

[Nick P]

I think you are the one and only guy i would recommend to go custom code, purely on the basis that you would then be correct in everything you say and can be well and truly chuffed that you are the man, the legend.

Classic

[shark_tech]

He hasn't produced any thermodynamics theorems.

I've yet to score from a McDonald's car park.

And I'm not from the UK either!

:(

I think I'll try Burger King!

Edited 14 December, 2010 by shark_tech

[The Skud]

LOl........Thought that you may need this to continue your Quest.....

Ben, I would be careful what you say to him from now on I found a photo of lol and he's a bit bigger than you are my friend, although you could probably tame him with one of those most Excellent Sausage and egg butties!

Edited 14 December, 2010 by The Skud

[vRSy]

are you sure, i thought he might just be stephen hawking, with a random username just to confuse us

[Yeti_Man]

What have I started?!

Probably one of the most entertainling threads ever!

Well, Im the first to hold my hands up say I never got a degree as I nor my family could afford to send me to university. Therefore, I dont really understand the c=z+f-d=>c+22->5<3 :no:

What I do now know for fact, after having now covered two tanks worth of fuel since the remap is that the car is more fuel efficient! and this goes for both motorway cruising as per my original question AND smoothly driven town work. Considering how much more accessible the useable power is, this is the first remap Ive had (and Ive had at least one on every car Ive ever owned! ) that literally does not have a downside!

I am one very happy chappy.

Now, back to the thermo nuclear efficiency discussions....

Edited 14 December, 2010 by FocusZtec

[darrenw]

E=MC2?

At the end of the day, if people want to pay for a remap, that's their choice. Personally, I wouldn't but that's my choice.

All I know is that Ben has a fantastic reputation on here an those that have had a remap done are very happy with it.

Who cares whos' degree is biggest?

[lol-lol]

Why not come and see us at the Autosport Engineering show in January? We will be there and would be happy to discuss it with you, and go through the mapping of a 1.8TSI and explain what we do and why?

I am due to be at the Autosport show so I may well visit as a mystery shopper.

Agree this has been one of the most entertaining thread on the forum in the last 7 year!