Fabia vRS 1.4 TSI's modifications

[vRSy]

The wife went in her friends Fabia vRS estate the other date, and really wants one. Dont particularly mind them, not the best looking but tunable, DSG, lightweight, economical and available as an estate. so potentially quite a good all rounder. Not had a test drive yet, but ive read the reviews, and in all fairness all the flaws the journalists have picked up im not worried about because id modify it.

Been having a look around the forums and websites, but not to much info on these as yet. Im all over the TFSI engine for mods and tuning. havent got a clue with this one.

Remaps: Ive seen REVO have stage 1 out, alleged 215hp which is a cheaky little increase. what about stage 2 with exhaust/intake. cant find anything about this yet. Anyone running this or know of tuners with available software/figures.

Intakes: what have we got then. what are the tested/expected gains on these engines in both standard and mapped trim. Not to sure how restrictive the standard system is.

Exhausts: Needed for stage 2 and decent gains imo. Im not bothered about cat backs personally, all you get is a louder car, all the performance gains are in the downpipe IMO. Whos running what? what are the best/recommended bore for the 1.4TSI.

Handling: I have an unhealthy obsession with handling on cars. are all the parts interchangable between the fabia, Ibiza and Polo just as with the Mk5 chassis etc.

Anti roll bars: found eibach bars and thats it. I found them on my previous 2 cars to be a bit to neutral, so id prefer a stiffer rear bar to make them a bit more pointy. still my favourite mod though.

Suspension: ive heard KW have kits out now.

Adjustability: How adjustable is the front suspension on these cars. Is camber fixed, if so, anyone aware of top mounts or adjustable lower control arms available on the market?

cheers guys

Sy

Edited 22 January, 2011 by janner_Sy

[Tech1e]

Pretty sure I answered this over on SCN

[vRSy]

yes you did, but always good for more opinions. Very often you get very different answers on dofferent forums. Plus it was actually the vRS i was interested in, so this is the ideal place to ask. Main reason i asked on the ibiza sub forum was that alot of younger guys would have bought the cupra, due to its sporty pedigree and looks and thus more likely to have modded it.

[Tech1e]

Yeah just checking it was the same source.

Pretty sure no one as yet has modded a MK2 vRS, not seen one thats for sure.

[ChrisRs]

Yeah just checking it was the same source.

Pretty sure no one as yet has modded a MK2 vRS, not seen one thats for sure.

Do front mudflaps count?

[Tech1e]

I stand corrected!

[vRSy]

on the brake front what size/type of brakes are the Ibiza cupra running? Usually over the last few models of cupra they have normally had larger/etter brakes than the rest of the VAG platforms. Is it the same with this Cupra v Fabia

[Tech1e]

Unless you spec the racing brakes they are the same 288mm ATE brakes on the Ibiza as the vRS.

[Tech1e]

There arent any vRS options, 288mm only from factory,

[Tech1e]

There are Skoda approved Eibach springs for the vRS.

[Yeti-RS]

The 1.4tsi isnt as tuneable as the 2.0tsi, so far a remap is as far as you can go.

But dont let that frustrate you, we recently had a scirocco shoot out in Taiwan and the fastest 0-100 time was recorded by a remapped 1.4tsi, it beat the 2.0tsi's!.

On the 1/4 mile the 1.4 lost to the 2.0 by about 0.1 seconds.

There was a few people in greece who did hybrid turbo conversions but they only gained about 20bhp..... not worth it for the money really.

If they bring out the VRS estate here in Taiwan i will definetly pick one up myself, cracking engine in a small car

[Tunpero]

The wife went in her friends Fabia vRS estate the other date, and really wants one. Dont particularly mind them, not the best looking but tunable, DSG, lightweight, economical and available as an estate. so potentially quite a good all rounder. Not had a test drive yet, but ive read the reviews, and in all fairness all the flaws the journalists have picked up im not worried about because id modify it.

Been having a look around the forums and websites, but not to much info on these as yet. Im all over the TFSI engine for mods and tuning. havent got a clue with this one.

Remaps: Ive seen REVO have stage 1 out, alleged 215hp which is a cheaky little increase. what about stage 2 with exhaust/intake. cant find anything about this yet. Anyone running this or know of tuners with available software/figures.

Intakes: what have we got then. what are the tested/expected gains on these engines in both standard and mapped trim. Not to sure how restrictive the standard system is.

Exhausts: Needed for stage 2 and decent gains imo. Im not bothered about cat backs personally, all you get is a louder car, all the performance gains are in the downpipe IMO. Whos running what? what are the best/recommended bore for the 1.4TSI.

Handling: I have an unhealthy obsession with handling on cars. are all the parts interchangable between the fabia, Ibiza and Polo just as with the Mk5 chassis etc.

Anti roll bars: found eibach bars and thats it. I found them on my previous 2 cars to be a bit to neutral, so id prefer a stiffer rear bar to make them a bit more pointy. still my favourite mod though.

Suspension: ive heard KW have kits out now.

Adjustability: How adjustable is the front suspension on these cars. Is camber fixed, if so, anyone aware of top mounts or adjustable lower control arms available on the market?

cheers guys

Sy

That 7-speed dry clutch DSG max torque is 250 nm and Fabia vRS have it on default . So you cant add REVO cause getting more power adds same time more torque and that gearbox cant handle that...

Edited 29 December, 2010 by Tunpero

[ChrisRs]

That is correct Tunpero

The 7 Speed DSG cant handle anymore torque

Thats why the 6 speed DSG is fitted to the Octavia

[vRSy]

you can add revo though, it only adds something like 5NM peak torque, however it makes it hold that torque for much longer. Id be pretty happy that it could take more anyway. VAG always over engineer things, and there is no way they would have the limit of a gearbox @250NM, then put an engine in there with that maximum output already. there will be a factor of safety/tolerance in there.

I think the reason they have said the limit is 250NM is that the clutch system has been designed to last the life of the car. so if you run more torque, it will reduce that running life, of which id have probably sold up by that point anyway. I dont keep cars for long.

I really dont think the remap would damage the engine or the DSG, the TCM system in the DSG box will limit engine power to prevent damage if more than 250nm of torque is applied at a certain point in time and you won't have more than 250nm of torque all the time, it will be at a certain spot in the rev range.

Edited 29 December, 2010 by janner_Sy

[vRSy]

Found this from APR, which in all fairness probably have the best R&D in the business

Being headquarted in the USA we don't get the 1.4 TSI in any form for any VAG chassis. That being said, we have drooled over this little marvel of a lump for quite some time. After many months of research and preliminary testing, we were finally set to develop products for the 1.4 TSI.

We have researched the engine and transmission design from afar through all available technical documentation, have completely disseminated all 2500 maps in the ecu's, compared each component of the engine and transmission to other versions of the TSI and DSG and so we headed abroad to finally get our hands on a 1.4 TSI and work our magic.

Firstly, we wanted to find the absolute limits of the turbo and super charger forced induction system. Most of you will be pleased to know that we were able to see 30 psi from the oem engine with no hardware changes. We measured exhaust gas temperatures, intercooler efficiency, air intake temperatures, air fuel ratios, timing etc. and were able to determine that the engine could and would safely consume such boost pressures from a fueling and calibration perspective. Our concerns were the listed specifications by mahle and other oem teir 1 suppliers regarding the strength and safe operating parameters of the engine internals themselves. That being said, we feel we were able to determine the absolute ragged edge the engine can handle. That was our first step.

From there, we began increasing the margin of safety back to power levels that were more easily maintained at our goal of a 250,000 mile engine life. Boost pressure was the first parameter to be lowered and we began looking more closely at the DSG gear box.

Ratings from VAG are kinda fuzzy regarding the DSG and it seems that they can rate nearly identical DSG gear boxes on a wide scale. So, we determined the only way to find out is through real world testing. We work with other oem teir 1 suppliers in this industry and were given access to some of their internal testing and we collected our own accelerated life analysis as well. The results were certainly not shocking to us and were right in line with what we expected. Nearly all versions and variants of the DSG contain very similar or even the same internal components and the weakest link is still the clutch packs. Our determination is that just like the 2.0T FSI, the 1.4 TSI DSG is good to roughly 380 lb ft until the clutch packs started to wear prematurely. This means that you have plently of room in your dsg for modifications and that if you do experience a failure, its going to be the clutch packs which can be upgraded just like a manual transmission but command a much higher purchase price and a much greater level of expertise for the assembly. VAG doesn't even open up the DSG at the dealership level so if you do plan on going for more than 380 lb ft you should make sure you have some cash saved up.

30 days later of dyno and road testing, we began our beta testing process which yielded excellent results as you see in the posted dyno graph.

Our 1.4 TSi ECU Upgrade has been released for approximately 5 weeks now and the reviews are amazing. The latest kudo is directly from VW themselves where a Greecian VW employee had a chance to experience our 1.4 TSi calibration and was completely over the moon.

Also, at APR we have access to a full motorsport team - APR motorsport

- which aids in our development and research with these engines.

Thought stressful motorsport testing, we were able to find the limits.

We broke many things along the way and thankfully lets us know how far to push your engine. FWIW our race team just took first place at Watkins Glen!

Here is an interesting thread over at a Golf Forum from someone who has done the remap:

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=34296&page=3

Edited 29 December, 2010 by janner_Sy

[vRSy]

Also have this on the DSG7 gearbox

Like the previous six-speed DSG gearbox, the new version has been sealed for life. Clutch plate wear is not an issue says Volkswagen, confident that well over a million development miles have ironed out any issues.

As well in-house testing, VW has stripped down gearboxes from real-world customer cars that have recorded as many as 200,000 miles and found wear well within the engineers' tolerances.

However, to ensure life-long reliability, the gearbox's ECU has been calibrated to forbid any potentially damaging gear changes occurring - and even if you do happen to overheat the clutch, the 'box has been pre-programmed with a failsafe to prevent permanent damage.

This takes the form of a warning light, followed by a very small amount of clutch burning, the smell of which floods the cabin. Carry on with the abuse and the ECU will artificially mimic clutch slip, hinting at a mechanical catastrophe. If this isn't enough, as a last resort, the next time the car comes to a standstill, the drive is completely disengaged until temperatures return to normal.

To improve durability even further, the DSG-7 will not be fitted with any engines producing more than 180lb-ft of torque to prevent the clutch exceeding its operating temperature.

as said on another forum, if they took out a clutch pack after 200000km and it was still alright then i cant imagine the extra wear of 20NM would cause that much of an issue

[vRSy]

so we know REVO have software out, and are in the process of developing stage 2 software.

APR have software already, but since the APR/REVO amnesty @ awesome -GTI means theres no official APR dealers now, so customer support could be a bit sketchy.

What about Jabbasport, P-torque, shark performance and bluefin. Ive not seen info on any stage 1 or stage 2 yet.

[p-torque.co.uk]

Hi Guys

I have been asked to post some info in this section.

The P-Torque software for the 1.4 TSI offers approx 210 - 215hp and 205 - 210lbs/ft torque.

We are currently chatting to Forge regarding the FMIC and Intake system for the Fabia, and check fitment against that of the Ibiza's

There has been alot of concern regarding DSG transmission in almost all VAG variants, but in actual fact they are very strong, and we have tested them both on the track, road and dyno, and to date not 1 customer has suffered a DSG issue, despite some running high levels of torque (360lbs/ft)

Within the next week we will be releasing our DSG software upgrade for the Fabia/Ibiza too

[ChrisRs]

..............................................

Within the next week we will be releasing our DSG software upgrade for the Fabia/Ibiza too

What will this software upgrade do?

[vRSy]

much appreciated Will. any more info on the DSG software. what is it going to do

raise the rev limit, torque limit etc?

[vRSy]

Here's REVOs quoted figures for the 1.4TSI(180ps).

As you can see, peak torques not increased by that much at all, but it holds torque for alot longer which is exactly what you want.

Also notice that there is no change at all below 3500rpm. That is the point when the supercharger disengages and the turbo has full control. I wander why they never altered that for more low down grunt.

Another note is the before and after torque figures. This graphs shows standard torque peaking at about 260NM (thats 10NM more than VAG quoted figures). Peak torque is increased to 284NM so if you take into account the 10NM over read thats only an increase of 24NM. thats pretty reasonable, and id bet well within the limitations of the DSG.

Also its got a nice plateau of 220Hp for about 5000-7000rpm

[Reavenger]

Is there confirmed + official details for this being available on the Revo website?

[vRSy]

Is there confirmed + official details for this being available on the Revo website?

this was from the revo website My link

Identical ECU?engine tothe ibiza cupra so its the same deal for the fabia

[MartynVRS]

Very interesting. I know this question has been asked millions of times but I've never seen the answer. What happens in regards to warranty with a remapped car. I was told once that If I remapped my MK1 vRS while under warranty the only thing that wouldn't be covered would be engine, gearbox, driveshafts and the bits in-between. Stuff like door seals, suspension, brakes etc would be fine. The dealer who told me this had the Skoda franchise taken off them for not honoring warranties so I don't trust whatever they had to say.

[vRSy]

Very interesting. I know this question has been asked millions of times but I've never seen the answer. What happens in regards to warranty with a remapped car. I was told once that If I remapped my MK1 vRS while under warranty the only thing that wouldn't be covered would be engine, gearbox, driveshafts and the bits in-between. Stuff like door seals, suspension, brakes etc would be fine. The dealer who told me this had the Skoda franchise taken off them for not honoring warranties so I don't trust whatever they had to say.

this is true. Only what is directly effected is not covered. So what you were told was correct. on the previous car, i had it stage 2 mapped when the low pressure fuel sensor failed as well as the engine cover coming loose and snapping the connection on top of the fuel pump.

The dealer replaced both under warranty anyway. He thought the dealer hadn't refitted the engine cover correctly after the service, and the low pressure fuel sensor was a known problem.

So its not always the case either. if you go to a Skoda dealership that does REVO you might be even luckier as they will be the ones who have modified your car.

Horton skoda

Station garage LTD[skoda]

Rainworth Motors Ltd [skoda]