Understeer

[octimark]

Mod's feel free to move this to the performance section but i'll start off in the general mk2 section for more coverage

I've been after a mk2 Octavia for a while and the right one for me at the right time has just come up for sale so i've bought it.

It has some choice mods on it already but apart from Koni FSD dampers and Eibach Pro Springs and full geo set up no other susspension mods.

I love the car and compared to the mk1 its in a different class (IMO) but I am surprised at how much understeer there is even under normal/low speed driving conditions especially if the roads arent anywhere near dry.

What I wanted to ask is what seems to be the favoured set up for the MK2 to reduce understeer?

I've read a lot of info about whats available but I wanted some real world feedback on what combinations work

Thanks in advance.

[rsbspt]

My first choice would be the Whiteline Anti-lift Kit:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/Effect%20of%20WL%20ALK_b.pdf

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KCA316

Available from JKM for one...

[pist0nbr0ke]

+1 for the WALK; Uprated RARB (Eibach/Neuspeed/Whiteline) will work wonders too, esp. in conjunction with the WALK; I've also seen TT lower control arms mentioned-the std. ones are non-adjustable for camber, the TT ones are?

Also consider tyres & pressures.....oh, and the handbrake reduces understeer too.....

[AnotherGareth]

especially if the roads arent anywhere near dry.

Do you have good quality tyres that are designed to work well in wet conditions? And exactly what is happening, (as in, what sequence of events), when you suffer from understeer?

[octimark]

......oh, and the handbrake reduces understeer too.....

[octimark]

Do you have good quality tyres that are designed to work well in wet conditions? And exactly what is happening, (as in, what sequence of events), when you suffer from understeer?

Tyres are good quality. Michelin Pilot Sports. Condition and pressures are all good.

An Example of what is happening:

Sunday morning was wet on the roads but not raining and temperatures werent cold enough for frost/ice etc. Driving up to a round-a-bout with 3 exits. I wanted the 2nd exit, so it was a right angle if the round-a-bout wasnt there. Quite a tight turn in that direction but was literally doing under 10mph, it was a national speed limit dual carriage way. Had passengers in the car including my daughter so it was a very sedate drive indeed.

Entered the round-a-bout and as I turned the corner the front end understeered massively.

Again speed wasnt a factor and road & tyre conditions werent anything to inffluence the understeer to such a degree experienced. I can imagine if it was a more spirited drive I would have been up the kerb. To potentially travel the width of 2 lanes due to understeer means I have no confidence in the cars ability to push on through corners. I havent "pushed" the car yet but my first impressions are the car defo suffers from understeer problems and I wanted to guage if its normal for the mk2 and can it be improved?

[pete8tch]

They do understeer mate , i cured mine with Whiteline arbs front and rear , really happy with it now to be honest, its on weitec gt and is just about as i want it.

[octimark]

My first choice would be the Whiteline Anti-lift Kit:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/Effect%20of%20WL%20ALK_b.pdf

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KCA316

Available from JKM for one...

Thanks for the links.

I see from your sig you have one fitted. I assume you rate it highly having put it through a real life test?

[danp]

something sounds wrong to under steer that much at 10 mph ?

[pist0nbr0ke]

I have a WALK fitted, and my car is the diesel, so even more nose heavy-very impressed I have to say-especially accelerating back out of a tight bend-it doesn't seem to spin/'hop' anything like it used to. I only have an uprated RARB fitted-front is std., but these two mods combined make a huge difference-I'm well happy

Lift off oversteer is possible with the 'right' conditions...

Fitting the WALK can be done easily enough (I did mine & I'm no mechanic!!)-there's a guide by 'Hauptmann' in the technical section of the Octy II forum-but you will need alignment done after. (You should probably get this done anyway, bearing in mind the number of problems there have been with uneven tyre wear!)

HTH!

[Wardy]

WALK and uprated rear ARB. I've been impressed with the Autotech one I got for the back and also that it's available on its own and not in a pair. Not got round to the WALK yet, but it's on the medium-term list

Thought it was you that had bought it! Looks a mega example, you must be well chuffed

[pz1811]

An eibach pro set up will give you a lot of adjustment options.......

Had got it lowered up front for a aggressive look and reduce understeer ...it helped but not as much....however a little bit of negative camber made a hell of a difference.........however I must warn you get it done from an expert ONLY and be prepared for a lot off uneven wear on the tyres.....

His oem dunlops were partially bald only after 15k kms or about 9k miles

Sorry forgt to mention was talking about Octavia mk1 vrs with 17" skoda rims

Edited 1 February, 2011 by pz1811

[octavia5]

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/152785-fitting-a-new-rear-anti-roll-bar-on-a5-chassis/

[octimark]

something sounds wrong to under steer that much at 10 mph ?

As i'm sure you can appreciate I wasnt looking at the speedo but that was what the speed felt like and it was very low speed.

IMO the understeer is excessive and no what I was expecting hence this post. It seems like its normal for the car and can be addressed to a point which is good news

[octimark]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Looks like a clear way forward is being recommended by a few people with first hand experience

[octimark]

Thought it was you that had bought it! Looks a mega example, you must be well chuffed

Its an excellent example especially for its age.

Just wish i'd got a mk2 earlier and saved myself a lot of money and hassle. I love it and i've only driven it twice since getting it.

Now here something to scare you. It's my wife that gets to drive it every day

Shes not happy about going from a diesel to a petrol but she loves the car

[Ecomatt]

I have never experienced under steer in my Octy. My car only has eibach springs and Oe dampers. It always feels planted to the road and it just turns and turns and turns. I think a lot is driving style. Any car will under steer if going too fast into a corner. I am surprised that people get understeer with road driving. I drive down very twisty country lanes and I don't hang about when they are empty late at night The car goes where I point it with no issues in any weather...well...maybe not snow lol

I must admit that since putting my Fulda's on the front and Falkens on the rear. The car is even more planted to the road. I run 30psi(f) and 32psi®. I find that is the best set up so far for handling. I have tried 35psi (fr) 34psi (fr) and various other pressures over the year. I find now that 30/32 gives a good balance between handling and comfort. Might be worth checking the pressures are correct, as that can affect handling.

Matt

[Wardy]

something sounds wrong to under steer that much at 10 mph ?

Depending on the corner and camber, I know what Mark means. There's a corner locally I know that will do just that and you can feel the car moving around, even at those sorts of speed. It's one where you need to have washed off more speed than you think, go in slow but then you're able to get the power on earlier and exit well. It's either that or you go in, wash wide, understeer even with mods and properly setup, then it takes you longer to regain chassis composure and get on the power again. If all that makes sense

An eibach pro set up will give you a lot of adjustment options.......

Had got it lowered up front for a aggressive look and reduce understeer ...it helped but not as much....however a little bit of negative camber made a hell of a difference.........however I must warn you get it done from an expert ONLY and be prepared for a lot off uneven wear on the tyres.....

His oem dunlops were partially bald only after 15k kms or about 9k miles

Will it? An Eibach Pro setup gives you a fixed drop in height and a sportier damper setup? If we're talking suspension. On their ARBs, I recall them being non-adjustable.

On the setup, getting it properly setup should not give you an excess tyre wear at all. In fact, it'll be a damn sight better than it was as standard!

Its an excellent example especially for its age.

Just wish i'd got a mk2 earlier and saved myself a lot of money and hassle. I love it and i've only driven it twice since getting it.

Now here something to scare you. It's my wife that gets to drive it every day

Shes not happy about going from a diesel to a petrol but she loves the car

Don't think you'd have found better, and with such a good number of mods already on it. Like S3 brakes

[cheshire_cat]

. I love it and i've only driven it twice since getting it.

have you checked the tyre pressure garges et-al are notorious for pumping them sky hi ---you could just fit a thicker OE bar - superb springs to mind, it's diameter to power three if I remember right and a lot cheaper than the custom stuff

[Hauptmann]

The vRS does understeer, but the OP's description makes it sound very bad. I never noticed bad low speed understeer. I would start with getting the basics correct (tyres, tyre pressures and full alignment).

I have fitted the Whiteline RARB (mid-setting) and the WALK which do reduce the understeer somewhat and improve the handling. Mind you, I am not keen on what seems to be the latest trend of dialling out ALL of the understeer. At the end of the day, some small amount of understeer is desireable on a road-going car.

[muckipup]

The vRS does understeer, but the OP's description makes it sound very bad. I never noticed bad low speed understeer. I would start with getting the basics correct (tyres, tyre pressures and full alignment).

I have fitted the Whiteline RARB (mid-setting) and the WALK which do reduce the understeer somewhat and improve the handling. Mind you, I am not keen on what seems to be the latest trend of dialling out ALL of the understeer. At the end of the day, some small amount of understeer is desireable on a road-going car.

Agree with all the points made there!

[Stuart_J]

Agree with all the points made there!

Ditto

Also could have been oil/grease on the road & if wet & near freezing tyres will underperform, most "normal" road tyres tend to suffer reductions in grip as temp drops below around 7 deg C

[vRSy]

what tyres are you running. Your spring/damper setup is fine, (just check that the shocks are servicable, the FSDs have a history of leaking and going soft)

as said above the best 2 mods you should get are an (adjustable) rear anti roll bar and whiteline anti lift kit. But i wouldnt stop there, the vRS also suffers wheel hop and transmission slop. Uprate the lower engine mount or even the full set. As a package it is a huge improvement.

Id finish it off with the TT lower control arms and some uprated brake pads/kit

[Wardy]

Id finish it off with the TT lower control arms and some uprated brake pads/kit

It's Uncle Bulgaria's previous car, so has the S3 stoppers. Which I think are already specced with decent discs/pads.

[PowerMalc]

I do not think the handling characteristics through one roundabout is that indicative of a cars handling.

Roundabouts are terrible for having all sorts of stuff deposited on them, cars braking or turning and and that drop of oil just hanging onto the sump falls off, the tarmac is very worn and smoothed off. You might get big variables in grip between left and right and suddenly the tyre with the least grip is the outside front.

IMO I though the grip from the front end of the Octavia VRS was very good and marginally better than the Focus ST I used to have