ffelen

i think we need a video of a fabia 0-100, maybe could compare this to one i have of my car? although it was raining, and the car cut once to overboost, still got to 100 in roughly 14-15 secs, very roughly tho

Chris, for the record:

Here goes....

Gear ratios/mph per 000 for RS as follows:

1st = 3.3/6.2

2nd = 1.94/10.5

3rd = 1.31/15.6

4th = 1.03/19.8

5th = 0.84/24.3

Therefore max speed at 7k is

1st = 43

2nd = 74

3rd = 109

4th = 139

5th = 170.1

Some people have moved their limiters to 7500. the figures above are for a standard Octavia RS, not seen a set of ratios for the Fabia.

Hope that helps.

Jon

ventmore----

so is it safe to say that talking it to the red line in 3rd' date=' and not the limiter, then into 4th could account for the 21.44?[/quote']

Not really......I changed up at an indicated 90ish on the speedo.

When I tried to hit 100 in 3rd, I got the speedo to around 105ish which was just inside the redline, so on the 0-100 run, I was fairly conservative on my change to 4th. If I had left it til 95ish for the change, I may have got there a bit quicker. Either way, I was a way off the limiter...all speeds BTW are speedo, and not actual

Cheers

Ventmore

so how does ventmores finding tie in with this then? as he would be 10mph short of top speed in 3rd

Fabia's do not keep up with CTR / Scoobie etc. Octavias do.. and modified Octavias destroy them.

Why is it so hard to believe a Fabia with 195 bhp and 320 lb ft of torque can keep up with a Civic Type R? Seems perfectly believable to me. Yet you go on to say a standard Octavia will, when it has around 10 less bhp, 50 kg more weight and half as much torque :confused:

I put it to you that it is Octavia owners like yourself who are just as guilty of living in cuckoo land as many Fabia owners!!!!

cos its a diesel, and they werent designed for sprints

Why is it so hard to believe a Fabia with 195 bhp and 320 lb ft of torque can keep up with a Civic Type R?

While not wishing to be drawn into what the Fabia vRS can and can't beat...those values are peak - it's the "area under the graph" which is more telling about what a car can do.

Rob.

And the Honda isnt a peaky motor at all is it?

Also, who said anything about sprints?

Perhaps Chris-P you should go to www.seatcupra.net and go into the video section and have a look at the video where a Civic Typre R is being outran by a Leon Cupra TDI with a tuning box.

I'm going to give up at this stage. Its clear some people can not and will not accept that diesels can have good performance. Ignorance to the highest degree IMHO.

I totally agree with you pbirkett. Torque is key every time. I have raced a Fabia V-RS with a jabbasport map and he caught me out, and we were sat side by side 20-60 before i started to pull, yet a CTR is easy picking indeed. In my volvo i can take on lots of n/a big engined cars, but the turbo petrols have good midrange, although i believe the newer scooby is an easy kill due to the power to weight, whereas the classic scooby is quicker.....

This is the reason for my desire to own a FABIA VRS !

Its clear some people can not and will not accept that diesels can have good performance.

Hope I'm not included in that. :(

Right, speaking from experience:

My old RS was way quicker than my "friend's" current car, even though it has much less torque and only about 50bhp more. Both have identical suspension, both ran the same tyres and yet cross country the RS would kill "his" TDI. OK I'd be working harder in the RS, but for sheer speed the RS wins every time. We can rule out driver as I've driven both on the same routes on the road and the tracks. For example, the RS was nearly 5 seconds per lap quicker than the diesel, round the Ring it was nearly 30 seconds quicker.

As for what the Furby will do, I don't really know and until you get the same driver driving both cars we never will.

In the interests of fairness, at the next trackday could someone please lend me the following cars:

Standard Fabia

Modded Fabia

Standard Octy RS

Modded Octy RS

Civic Type R

Volvo T5R

Ferrari Enzo

By modded I mean remap only to keep the variables to a minimum and we can then see which is "quicker". Don't worry anyone who wants to lend me a car, I drive like a granny and won't abuse your car Oh and the Enzo? Worth a try

Torque is key every time

I'll remember that next time I pull away from the lights next to a lorry...

A single peak torque figure is *not* indicative of how well a car can accelerate - if that peak torque figure is at 2200rpm, you'll spend so much time changing gear that it will be absolutely rubbish for sprints.

Similarly if the peak power output on a turbo engine is only available between 4-5k rpm, and there's naff all happening before that, it doesn't matter what the value of the peak power is it will also be rubbish for sprints.

So sitting here debating figures is all well and good, but really it means very little...

Rob.

Diesels are good for midrange power - out of a round about in 3rd 30 mph floor it and at this point the equivalent petrol is long gone......

As for trucks, when they are carrying 40 tonnes and can accelerate the same as a fiat punto 1.0 then that isn't too bad at all, as modern trucks have a minimum of around 1000 lb/ft and anything from 200hp.

So with that in mind i would love to see a 200 hp civic type R pull 4 tonnes, never mind 40 - lol.

It is an interesting debate and people have their opinions.

Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to say that diesels are the fastest things around, dont ever think I have... but I am saying that people do seem to underestimate them, and will never admit that they could even keep sight of their beloved petrol cars -- WRONG.

The Fabia is fast enough for me to believe that it is a hot hatch whatever that doubters may think. I know that its not as quick as an Octavia RS, but I feel the little Fabia certainly does not embarass itself, and may even be quicker in he midrange, but like ventmore said earlier, who really cares? As long as we enjoy our cars thats what matters, and barring a couple of small gripes, I do enjoy mine (my morning drive to work certainly put a grin on my face, as ever). I do get irritated when people try and tell me my car is crap because its a diesel though, that I cant deny!

Diesels are good for midrange power - out of a round about in 3rd 30 mph floor it and at this point the equivalent petrol is long gone......

"Equivalent petrol"...what does this actually mean? :confused: If it was equivalent, they've be the same, no?

As for trucks, when they are carrying 40 tonnes and can accelerate the same as a fiat punto 1.0 then that isn't too bad at all, as modern trucks have a minimum of around 1000 lb/ft and anything from 200hp.

So with that in mind i would love to see a 200 hp civic type R pull 4 tonnes, never mind 40 - lol.

Not disputing that at all...but that would imply it's not all about torque, and that the weight of the vehicle has a lot to do with it too? :rubchin:

It is an interesting debate and people have their opinions.

But that's just it...they *are* just opinions, there don't seem to be many facts other than "well, I was up against xxxx and I could tell he was really trying but there wasn't a lot in it". And if there aren't any facts, then there's never going to be a conclusion...

Rob.

I do get irritated when people try and tell me my car is crap because its a diesel though, that I cant deny!

I wouldn't say it's crap because it's a diesel... :jab:

Rob.

One other little point. The gearing is such on an octavia that you cannot achieve 100 mph in 3rd.

Autocar measured the following maximum speeds for the Octavia vRS in each gear using 7000rpm:

1st - 43mph

2nd - 74mph

3rd - 109mph

4th - 139mph

5th - 144mph @ 5900rpm

Those 1st to 4th gear speeds are the same as Jon quoted.

Diesels are not that slow really but people do underestimate them

Denis, that's what I posted earlier.

And for the record, and for anyone who cares , my Octy is faster than your Furbie :haha:

Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to say that diesels are the fastest things around, dont ever think I have... but I am saying that people do seem to underestimate them, and will never admit that they could even keep sight of their beloved petrol cars -- WRONG.

Someone posted some vids of their remapped furbys speedo a few weeks back, and, out of curiosity, I timed it and timed mine. I think the furby went upto about 80ish on the vid, and as far as I can see, a std octy may have just been able to beat it, but not by much.

Obviously, I can't comment past that speed, but I must say, I was quite impressed.

Also, regards diesels......I used to have a 205 1.9td, and I shocked quite a few cars in it...even from the lights......the advantage being that people tended to underestimate it. This was however, back in my boy racer days

Cheers

Ventmore

Denis, that's what I posted earlier.

Sorry, Jon. Just noticed they are from the same source.

Can we have the same again for the 4X4 please, based on using 7000rpm not 6500rpm as was posted recently?

"Equivalent petrol"...what does this actually mean? :confused: If it was equivalent' date=' they've be the same, no?

Rob.[/quote']

Golf 4 GTI PETROL

GTI 2.0 115 ps [MAX = 121 0-60 = 10.2] (120lb/ft ish)

GTI 1.8 T 150ps [MAX = 134 0-60 = 8.2] (150 lb/ft ish)

Golf 4 GTI Diesel

Early 115PD [MAX = 121 0-60 = 10.0] (200 lb/ft ish)

GTI 150 PD [MAX = 134 0-60 = 8.3] (250 lb/ft ish)

The above would be comparable or equivalent models.

So considering the short power band and 3 gearchanges to 60 the perofmance is the same on paper to 60. As i mentioned before it is the midrange power that makes the difference on these cars and on each occasion you will find the diesel equivalent to have more midrange.

Having one of each,the wife's Fabia just feels quicker than my Octy.More of a shove you along feeling .She isn't bothered about borrowing my car now. She is quite happy with hers.

Mine looks nicer though

Golf 4 GTI PETROL

GTI 2.0 115 ps [MAX = 121 0-60 = 10.2] (120lb/ft ish)

GTI 1.8 T 150ps [MAX = 134 0-60 = 8.2] (150 lb/ft ish)

Golf 4 GTI Diesel

Early 115PD [MAX = 121 0-60 = 10.0] (200 lb/ft ish)

GTI 150 PD [MAX = 134 0-60 = 8.3] (250 lb/ft ish)

The above would be comparable or equivalent models.

I'd disagree - a 2.0N/A petrol engine vs a 1.9 turbo-charged diesel engine?

A 1.8T petrol engine against a 1.9T diesel engine? They don't sound especially equivalent to me!

Especially not considering the differences in peak torque output...

Rob.

Volvo T5 - did your volvo come with a free labrador or to you have to pay extra for them? I cant see them on the options list - i was expecting to see golden, black and chocolate but cant see them anywhere

I can't believe you have reduced yourself to trying to insult me .