I am only posting this as yesterday i went to pick up my new Fabia vRS, which took me from Whitchurch, Shropshire to Sheffield and back (220 miles).

So far where i live we have not seen any snow that was until yesterday (the day i was due to fetch my vRS) at 9am it started snowing huge chunks and blizzard like, i set off at 10am and once on the A roads it was not bad at all, just wet roads and temp around 2.5C, once i left Whitchurch i saw no snow at all even though i went up and over the peak district where i was expecting to see snow.

I left Sheffield just after midday and followed the same route home, temp was between 0.5 & 2.5C and during the journey we had light rain which turned into sleet/light snow, on part of the journey traffic came to a crawl along a dual carriageway and eventually we passed the incident an Audi R8 had rear ended a artic and was a written off (people all looked OK) once we passed the incident, traffic flow eased and quite a few cars sped off (over 70mph) and the spray and visibilty was appauling, it's either people don't care or think it will never happen to them or it must be the i am so hard and invinsible inside my car syndrome, that makes people drive like ASSHOLES.

Finally on that night 6..30pm we went into Whitchurch town to get a takeaway, temp was 3.0C and the lanes that lead me to town from our village which remain untreated were so slippy i was taking it very cautiously and my TCS was kicking in now and again and braking anything other than feather-light caused the wheels to lock up, but some cars coming in the opposite direction were not driving slow enough for the conditions. Well on the way back home we passed a young man and an older woman (possibly mom) standing next to there car sideways in a ditch with a tractor about to pull the car out.

You should drive within your ability or to the conditions not both and coming off gritted roads to non gritted roads will catch a lot of people out, temp does not have to be 0C for roads to become icy anything below 4C can cause slippery conditions, make sure your tyre pressures are correct, get winter tyres fitted and drive cautiously and responsibly, as you might not only kill yourself, but worse some poor innocent driver coming in the opposite direction.

I have been driving cars and riding bikes for over 20 years so have learnt a thing or two in that time, BE SAFE OUT THERE PEOPLE.

Edited 17 December, 201114 yr by GazofCorra

Just fit winter tyres and increase your safety margin? UK driving stds are crap so any aid in bad weather must help the half wits who end up having accidents.

+1 to the OP. Even with winter tyres on and all the electronics available, you have to understand that the driving limits under such conditions are significantly reduced compared with driving on dry roads. These aids are not meant to allow you to drive as you would normally do, as some idiots out there tend to think, but to make some dangerous situtations just drivable...

Typically, the drivers who are normally "occupying" the left lane at 60mph and need the lighting of an entire stadium to flash them so that they check their mirror and move to the right, are the same idiots who continue doing 60mph under full ice and end up waiting for assistance.

However, If someone cannot think about his ownself and the potential dangers he is facing when driving like a fool, he is not probably going to care about what happens to others either...

A balance of common sense, confidence and caution is needed. Read the road and drive to the conditions.

A degree of confidence is always required too. As an example, I had a steep, twisty and slippery descent on my way to work yesterday and fog made for poor visibility too. I put the DSG in manual and was controlling the speed in 2nd gear no throttle and came up behind a polo. The driver kept dabbing the brakes and skidding, they were doing less than 5mph and were quite obviously petrified. They pulled over into a farm entrance and I passed them and continued without event. They needed to pop it in 1st and let it roll and have the confidence to do that.

Over reacting or reacting inappropropriately also causes problems by annoying impatient drivers into overtaking at the wrong moment. (That is a problem anytime of the year)

As our winters seem to be getting worse there must be a market for driver training in these conditions, however good you think you are, there is always something new to learn. However skilled you think you are, everybody can make a mistake and common sense says always leave a margin. As previously said the I'm invincible approach to driving is what generally causes the bulk of and the worst of the accidents.

Be safe!

TCS off when snow is on the ground and in manual not auto that's the way I drive never any issues, no winters on just summers on, although if it snows like it did last year I will purchase winters next time, I am a very careful driver no accidents in 30 years of driving, it's the idiots who learn to drive on Xbox and ps3 which create absolute chaos on the roads the ones with a 10" exhaust on the back of a saxo etc, and fitting hid's without any thought to oncoming traffic

TCS off when snow is on the ground

?

Shouldn't it be quite the opposite?

In the past, I've been stuck at the side of the road, experiencing these exact behaviours trying to go up or down an icey hill with an old Renault 19 with no TCS/ESP at all. At the same time, newer cars with ESP were easily climbing/descending the hill as if they were drivin' on dry tarmac... And I was not going any fast at all, 2nd gear in and ultra gently but the inclination was so high that midway the car would just start to slip no matter what.

Edited 17 December, 201114 yr by newbie69

No most cars on snow, will come to a standstill on a slight gradient then when you try to pull away "no traction" as the TCS tries and tries to find grip and cannot when you switch it off you can elliviate this and traction is found, however once on Tarmac switch TCS back on, I am aware that TCS is a fantastic safety feature I have 2 fabias 1 with TCS and the other has not, last year the difference is stark the TCS free car was brill but the 1 with TCS was awful until I switched it off " hey ho traction and sailed up the hill no problem, the cars which were stuck we went back to them, told them to reverse down were we had cleared some snow so Tarmac and tires were in contact, told them traction off and 2nd gear and don't stop!!!, all got up no problem , all but a range rover sport with all the toys and whistles

Edited 17 December, 201114 yr by seboni121

No most cars on snow, will come to a standstill on a slight gradient then when you try to pull away "no traction" as the TCS tries and tries to find grip and cannot when you switch it off you can elliviate this and traction is found, however once on Tarmac switch TCS back on, I am aware that TCS is a fantastic safety feature I have 2 fabias 1 with TCS and the other has not, last year the difference is stark the TCS free car was brill but the 1 with TCS was awful until I switched it off " hey ho traction and sailed up the hill no problem, the cars which were stuck we went back to them, told them to reverse down were we had cleared some snow so Tarmac and tires were in contact, told them traction off and 2nd gear and don't stop!!!, all got up no problem , all but a range rover sport with all the toys and whistles

There is something quite satisfying about seeing an expensive BMW or Chelsea tractor stuck while a little Fabia just trundles by.....

There is something quite satisfying about seeing an expensive BMW or Chelsea tractor stuck while a little Fabia just trundles by.....

Oh omg you not wrong there attitude is my car has cost 10 times more that yours , "now p1$$ 0££ while I drive my BMW up the road without any help", as they drp it in a ditch oh how I smile inside and wave

No most cars on snow, will come to a standstill on a slight gradient then when you try to pull away "no traction" as the TCS tries and tries to find grip and cannot when you switch it off you can elliviate this and traction is found, however once on Tarmac switch TCS back on, I am aware that TCS is a fantastic safety feature I have 2 fabias 1 with TCS and the other has not, last year the difference is stark the TCS free car was brill but the 1 with TCS was awful until I switched it off " hey ho traction and sailed up the hill no problem, the cars which were stuck we went back to them, told them to reverse down were we had cleared some snow so Tarmac and tires were in contact, told them traction off and 2nd gear and don't stop!!!, all got up no problem , all but a range rover sport with all the toys and whistles

I don't doubt that someone experienced can achieve the hill start with proper technique and ESP off. Thats been the case in scandinavian countries for ages. My experience however tells that the typical driver (outside scandinavia) in a car with no esp will just rev the hell out of it in 1st and will not move an inch. The same typical driver in a car with ESP, applying the same excessive amount of throttle, except this time ESP cuts out a lot of it, will climb up no problem, probably not understanding how he did that.

On the other hand, I can't really see how going down a highly inclined road (say 25%), would be easier with ESP OFF. Assuming both cars are in the same gear etc. when you start sliding, you could never achieve the ideal micro-braking of the ESP which applies the brakes something around 10-20 times per sec. In one occation, I just couldn't stop my Renault no matter how quick I would apply and release the brakes. Seconds after I slided out of the road, an ESP-equipped car passed me doing an incredible - for the circumstances - 20mph and I was just waiting to see him crush on the next corner but he didn't.

Newbie69 I think your confusing TCS Traction Control System and ESP Electronic Stability Program

TCS deals with wheel spin by cutting power out when you have wheel spin however with DSG and some other instances Allowing the wheels to spin a certain amount can actually be benificial.

ESP is designed to recover the car from skids or to keep the car in check should you over cook it.

Also in the MK2 VRS you can switch the TCS off, However the ESP is always on.

like youve said, xbox's and the like have a lot to answer for. on a 2 mile stretch yesterday i turned round to find 3 car crashes on the road i just passed. now this was bumper to bumper traffic at slow speed on a straight road yet all 3 separate crashes happened and happened in the space of just a few minutes. crazy drivers just not paying attention to changing conditions. i was almost a victim myself, whilst keeping a safe distance from the car in front the turd behind caught up too quickly and then all i saw was the car snaking around behind me coz they couldn't control it and didn't drive for the conditions, yes i was going slow but so were the 30+ cars in front. it just takes one Muppet to spoil somebody's Christmas.

its the old 'oh it wont happen to me im a good driver syndrome' that too many people suffer from these days.

i really dont know how some of these people pass their test, thats if they have, and really think winter training should be mandatory. id even take it myself and ive driven over 20 years, cars and bikes. just look at Scandinavia, much higher driving standards coz they learn them properly

with wintery conditions accounting for at least a quarter of our driving year theres no excuse not to

Going nowhere in the car today. Walked to Sainsbury's and nearly went on my backside on a few occasions.

Only bought the car last month - I've had two decent days (just after I bought it) where it's been ok to put if through its paces - buying a car in winter is a frustrating experience - roll on spring!

Monk It's not just in winter this happens the VRS will stop on a sixpence if required.

I've nearly been rear ended numerous times when people tailgate. I barely touch the breaks (not break testing just slowing down for the que of traffic ahead) and the next thing their car is diving and squirming all over the shop.

People can't comprehend the diffrence a good set of tyre and breaks on a well looked after sports model makes, compaired to thier basic model with cheap tyres and stock breaks that have never been looked after. You just have to check the stories the Lads in the trade have posted of people turning up with bald tyres breaks that don't work etc.

TCS off when snow is on the ground and in manual not auto that's the way I drive never any issues, no winters on just summers on, although if it snows like it did last year I will purchase winters next time, I am a very careful driver no accidents in 30 years of driving, it's the idiots who learn to drive on Xbox and ps3 which create absolute chaos on the roads the ones with a 10" exhaust on the back of a saxo etc, and fitting hid's without any thought to oncoming traffic

I couldn't help but laugh at the highlighted quote above as i am 43 and have an xbox and Forza Motorsport 4 which includes the topgear test track and yes i have the full steering wheel and pedals with paddle shift gear change and it is great, but at the end of the day it is a game and when you crash no one dies i just picked up my vRS and is the first car i have ever had with paddle shift gear changing if you want to use it and i could not help thinking this is just like Forza 4.

But getting back to the seriousness of this post just drive cautiously and with consideration for your self and others and hopefully we will all have a great new year.

?

Shouldn't it be quite the opposite?

In the past, I've been stuck at the side of the road, experiencing these exact behaviours trying to go up or down an icey hill with an old Renault 19 with no TCS/ESP at all. At the same time, newer cars with ESP were easily climbing/descending the hill as if they were drivin' on dry tarmac... And I was not going any fast at all, 2nd gear in and ultra gently but the inclination was so high that midway the car would just start to slip no matter what.

This is a must watch video link and explains what ESP, TSC and ABS actually do in real world conditions. Nice find newbie69

This is becoming a very good post and if at the end of the day it helps someone, due to thinking a bit more and understanding the way to drive in winter conditions then i for one will be happy.

Here is a link to Prodrive who are offering a Winter Driving Course for £125 which is a lot less than the excess on most policies and it is fun too and conducted in a safe environment Prodrive Winter Driving Course.

Finally here is another link to a thing called "How fast" and you take your standard car along to Bedford Autodrome race circuit, where you have an hour to practice learning the course and finish off by setting your fast lap, your results are then recorded on the website for all to see, everyone gets the same treatment so it comes down to how good you really are and you can then compare it against the same class of car and all for £99, How Fast Club MSV.

I have no affiliation or ties to any of the above links, as i think they should be tried by everyone just once.

Wishing you all a safe and Merry Christmas

I couldn't help but laugh at the highlighted quote above as i am 43 and have an xbox and Forza Motorsport 4 which includes the topgear test track and yes i have the full steering wheel and pedals with paddle shift gear change

i think its aimed at the ones who grow up playing these and then learn to drive, you on the other hand seem a wee bit older and id hazard a guess that you learnt the other way around

as an example my son once said to me, in a queue of traffic, why dont you just push him out of the way dad, son its not burnout im playing!!!!

Edited 17 December, 201114 yr by the mad monk

I couldn't help but laugh at the highlighted quote above as i am 43 and have an xbox and Forza Motorsport 4 which includes the topgear test track and yes i have the full steering wheel and pedals with paddle shift gear change and it is great, but at the end of the day it is a game and when you crash no one dies i just picked up my vRS and is the first car i have ever had with paddle shift gear changing if you want to use it and i could not help thinking this is just like Forza 4.

But getting back to the seriousness of this post just drive cautiously and with consideration for your self and others and hopefully we will all have a great new year.

This is a must watch video link and explains what ESP, TSC and ABS actually do in real world conditions. Nice find newbie69

This is becoming a very good post and if at the end of the day it helps someone, due to thinking a bit more and understanding the way to drive in winter conditions then i for one will be happy.

Here is a link to Prodrive who are offering a Winter Driving Course for £125 which is a lot less than the excess on most policies and it is fun too and conducted in a safe environment Prodrive Winter Driving Course.

Finally here is another link to a thing called "How fast" and you take your standard car along to Bedford Autodrome race circuit, where you have an hour to practice learning the course and finish off by setting your fast lap, your results are then recorded on the website for all to see, everyone gets the same treatment so it comes down to how good you really are and you can then compare it against the same class of car and all for £99, How Fast Club MSV.

I have no affiliation or ties to any of the above links, as i think they should be tried by everyone just once.

Wishing you all a safe and Merry Christmas

Wow I've been doing it wrong apparently going by this !!!!

i think its aimed at the ones who grow up playing these and then learn to drive, you on the other hand seem a wee bit older and id hazard a guess that you learnt the other way around

as an example my son once said to me, in a queue of traffic, why dont you just push him out of the way dad, son its not burnout im playing!!!!

I may be older to look at, but inside i am still 18 years of age (or wish i was) YEAH!

I sometimes wish i could do as your son suggested, out of the way mere peasants

Where i live most of the country lanes have no road markings on them and are quite narrow, so it would be hard proving who was at fault should an accident happen and many times when i have been on my way in my car and i am riding in the gutter practically in the hedge due to the driver coming in the opposite direction not moving over, as they seem to think that their car is a F*****g lorry and they need all the road, i turn and say to my misses that i am going to buy a cheap car and side swipe all of those who think they own all the road and i will turn to them and say "oh well it's a 50/50 i'm afraid"

Edited 17 December, 201114 yr by GazofCorra

Check these out Common Winter Driving Myths Busted and Winter Driving Tips - Snow & Ice

and finally Braking techniques makes for an interesting read.

I also realise that some of the info in these links differs from that of a few posters in this thread, i cannot comment either way as unfortunately i don't know all the answers :'( , but armed with all this info you can make your own mind up.

Gaz out!

Check these out Common Winter Driving Myths Busted and Winter Driving Tips - Snow & Ice

and finally Braking techniques makes for an interesting read.

I also realise that some of the info in these links differs from that of a few posters in this thread, i cannot comment either way as unfortunately i don't know all the answers :'( , but armed with all this info you can make your own mind up.

Gaz out!

Nice... That was actually an additional reason for me to switch to a new car sooner than I had planned, the presence of all the electronic systems during severe snow/ice conditions so I would very surprised to hear it should be the other way round.

For me, the TCS button stays always ON with the exception of getting totally stuck in snow. My experiences in NON-ESP cars have inarguably showed that.

Where i live most of the country lanes have no road markings on them and are quite narrow, so it would be hard proving who was at fault should an accident happen and many times when i have been on my way in my car and i am riding in the gutter practically in the hedge due to the driver coming in the opposite direction not moving over, as they seem to think that their car is a F*****g lorry and they need all the road, i turn and say to my misses that i am going to buy a cheap car and side swipe all of those who think they own all the road and i will turn to them and say "oh well it's a 50/50 i'm afraid"

I have always fancied getting an old Land Rover as a run around for the same reason. When I have driven them on the road before it is amazing how many people give way to you, especially those in nice new BMWs and Mercs.

There is something quite satisfying about seeing an expensive BMW or Chelsea tractor stuck while a little Fabia just trundles by.....

Loved it last winter, when I could chug around in my little C3 with winter tyres on, while all those fancy 4x4s were sliding sideways...

.

For me, the TCS button stays always ON with the exception of getting totally stuck in snow. My experiences in NON-ESP cars have inarguably showed that.

Yep TCS and ESP will help you in any situation on any surface while the car is in motion, it's only if you can't get moving should you try and turn it off.

But in this sort of weather one component means more than any electronic system and that's TYRES.

The difference between summer and winter tyres on snow/sleet/ice is so wide you will not believe it until you try it for your self.

If you are keeping your car for three or more years then I can't see any reason not to buy and fit winter tyres, they will offset the wear on your summer tyres because during the months winters are fitted your summers are in storage. Often smaller winter tyres are cheaper than expensive low profile summer tyres so fitting winter tyres can save you money as well as making your winter driving far safer.

Cheers

Lee

Moved to general

Moved to general

Can you put the post back where it was started, as by moving it you have killed the thread.