Advantages of a remap vs tuning box

[Vrs-Fletch]

I carnt make my mind up to either remap or put a tuning box on my Vrs! Iv emailed my dealer and he said that the latest VAG diagnostics software will flag up at the factory if I remap the car so voiding the engine and gearbox warrenty. Is this true about the software? Has any one ha problems after remapping their car?

[Wilko251088]

My view is if there is any major issues, eg engine or gearbox warrenty issues I'll be having mind flashed to complete stock. Or if I get yellow before the 30days money back guarantee will be having it reverted anyway.

[leevrs180]

Remap better for car i.e and get better results with air filter etc, i use tuning box and i love it simple plug in a few sensors and away you go and unplug before taking to dealers, with remap you would have to pop to tuners and get put to stock etc. It depends on what are after

[Vrs-Fletch]

That is what I'm after, do the dealer doesn't knw it's on! Wot about the revo sps

[Wilko251088]

Revo Sps has an option for stock emulation map. Which is a tuned Down version is the revo map to act as a stock map would. I have been in touch with a few Skoda dealers who offer revo on their own cars and the responses are included in my thread entitled "revo 20% off" or something like that.

[dirty hari]

Dealers can tell any car has been mapped or been fitetd with a box if they look for it, ie logs etc etc

I choose a tmc box as it can be removed. Didn't have to open ecu etc and come the time I change car I can sell it too.

I can really recommend tmc like a remap, it really does transform the car just be ready to think about upgrading to bigger brakes (I went for 312s) and lowering the car.

Edited 25 June, 2012 by dirty hari

[Chorlton]

You've just spent thousands of quid on a nice car - why ruin it with a crappy tuning box. Get a proper switchable remap such as bluefin, Shark STS or similar.

[dirty hari]

Crappy? Hardly they seem good. Tmc been around for a long time do some research on google lots of good reviews. You could say that about maps and some tuners. Each to there own

Both are a good option for extra power

[Guest Sib-rs]

Crappy? Hardly they seem good. Tmc been around for a long time do some research on google lots of good reviews. You could say that about maps and some tuners. Each to there own

Both are a good option for extra power

+1

[vRSy]

You've just spent thousands of quid on a nice car - why ruin it with a crappy tuning box. Get a proper switchable remap such as bluefin, Shark STS or similar.

Bluefin is absolutely rubbish. Generic one size fits all map. Id never have it again. Not unless they tuned my physical car in house. plus it doesnt work on this ecu(unless there has been a recent development). Shark sts doesnt work on this ECU. Maybe a little research before posting....

Tuning bix is good for somone whos not planning on going further than Stage 1. Anything above that and its remap territory. I'm not a fanof the tmc purely based on my opinion of how they work. Ive not driven a car withone so I cant comment there although dyno results are good.

Ive seen 2 Air fuel ratio curves now from the tmc box and I didnt like what I saw. Looks like theEGTs get very high as the ecu has to really richen the mixture at high revs. Remaps dont have this issue

[mannyo]

The only way to remap the MK2 vRS is to remove the ECU, take it apart and bench flash it. STS, Bluefin, SPS do not as already mentioned work with this ECU. The ECU removal itself is very invasive, and it will be quiet obvious just by looking that the ecu has been removed / opened.

[Wilko251088]

The only way to remap the MK2 vRS is to remove the ECU, take it apart and bench flash it. STS, Bluefin, SPS do not as already mentioned work with this ECU. The ECU removal itself is very invasive, and it will be quiet obvious just by looking that the ecu has been removed / opened.

Unless the tuner knows their way around the ecu and know how to assemble it properly

[hammer32]

Unless the tuner knows their way around the ecu and know how to assemble it properly

I think this has been brought up before, if the ecu is taken apart,remapped then assembled proberly it does not show up as a flash.

[Wilko251088]

Was not aware of this hammer. Where did you hear this? Just curious.

[VRS-Powered]

If an ECU is remapped the flash counter on the ECU WILL go up

[Kiwibacon]

Regardless of how well mapped and assembled the ECU is, a dealer with the right tools can pull the map out and compare it to what should have been in there.

[Wilko251088]

That's if they really want to not to be able to a.) charge all their labour and as much as they want back to Skoda b.) charge for all parts vat etc back to Skoda c.) any additional tools needed etc back to Skoda. As a nice gentleman on the phone from David cook seat pointed out a dealership would be very daft to probe a car for a map/flash count whatever as warrenty work is a good income source for them. Also if they do investigate and put the blame on the map that puts the onus on revo/apr etc who, most of which have some form of warrenty if their software is found to be the cause of an serious fault. If this is the case then revo/apr whoever must spend a long time and a lot of money making sure their maps are safe and that people won't be claiming from them left right and centre.

Edited 26 June, 2012 by Wilko251088

[vRSy]

If an ECU is remapped the flash counter on the ECU WILL go up

Only if you have been mapped by the OBDII port. Bench flashing doesnt cause a flash count change.

[vRSy]

Regardless of how well mapped and assembled the ECU is, a dealer with the right tools can pull the map out and compare it to what should have been in there.

I agree with most maps that this is the case.

However if you have the cruise control on your car and an APR map you will not get caught out. They load a series of maps onto the car. One of them is your 100% stock map. then you have your various octane performance maps. For instance on my car i have a stock map. A low boost 98 ron stage 3 map, and a high boost 98 ron map, and a 95 ron map just incase i cant get decent fuel.

These are all seperate maps and not a single adjustable map as with REVO.

What this means is if you put it into stock mode, it loads up the 100% stock map, so even if they plug your car in at the dealership, their system will read all the correct codes, and settings of the correct OEM map. however if you left your performance map on you run the risk of getting caught by the diagnostic system

[Kiwibacon]

Also if they do investigate and put the blame on the map that puts the onus on revo/apr etc who, most of which have some form of warrenty if their software is found to be the cause of an serious fault. If this is the case then revo/apr whoever must spend a long time and a lot of money making sure their maps are safe and that people won't be claiming from them left right and centre.

Or simply ignore/deny.

Anyone who buys a remap has to take the responsibility themselves for any problems it causes.

EGR/DPF clogging, clutch/gearbox life reduction, melting/overspeeding turbochargers etc.

If it was perfectly safe, they would have done it at the factory. But it's not, so when the nice man with the laptop asks if you'd like more power/torque just appreciate the reasons the car maker didn't give it to you in the first place.

[Ootohere]

What does catch you out, if you think of it that way,

is posting on 'open & public forums',

because Skoda UK are not stupid and neither are Workshop managers and technicians.

You might hide your number plate but funnily some people in the Motor Trade are also car enthusiasts & also use forums.

It might not directly trouble yourself but then the next owner putting in their car for a Warranty claim saying,

'Never Raced or Rallied, one very careful owner, i never use it hard', might just not be so lucky.

Like with Insurance Companies & Underwriters or Accident Assessors or Loss Adjusters, its been usual to Troll Websites and Forums if Claims come in to possibly Reduce their liabilty if someone has Un-declared Mods.

You can be sure if you are in a Serious accident, Fault or No Fault, that your Car will get checked more forensically by 'Crash Investigators',

or a Loss Adjuster than when you are just Reporting a Poor Running engine or gearbox at a Dealership and trying to Con a National Company for Warranty work.

So best do your Re-maps & Flashes etc and be aware that there is Costs & Consequences, and if thats OK, then good.

& declare your Modifications with your Insurance Company and all will be honky dorry,

otherwise you are just kidding yourself.

"Whats the worst that can happen?"

george

[vRSy]

Im yet to have ever had a problem on a remapped car of which my last 6 cars have been remapped and i really use my cars hard with 1/4 mile runs and trackdays. Provided you do things right and concentrate on upgrading known weak parts you are OK. I know guys who have been running 360hp on a std turbo which was originally producing 230ps. They have been running it like this for over 100,000 miles.

With a turbo you can turn up the boost to a finite position before any extra gains then start loosing power as it get it gets beyond the heat thresholds of the turbo. Part of R&D is finding that position and then turning back the boost to a level that will still give reliability. They use compressor maps supplied from the manufacturers to work out these points as well as maximum rated turbine speeds, boost pressures etc so they are not just turning everything up to 10!!! (well im sure some people do, but the good companies dont). One of the most important things they look at when mapping cars is the exhaust gas temperatures. These relate to how hot the cylinders are getting. I know APR have a limit that they will not accept going above as it will directly effect reliability past that point.

What i do think is important though is you need to understand what effects doing this extra work can cause. More boost = more heat. higher boost can also cause issues with the spark. Sometimes diverter valves struggle to contain raised boost. If you are really upping the power you need to look into increasing the strength of your piston roads etc.

I know with my car when mapped and running on track that my oil, intake air, and water temps rose quite substantially. So i had an uprated radiator(75% larger) developed, and intercooler(35% larger) developed, and i installed higher grade oil that can handle higher oil tempertures with out loosing viscosity. The result is that my temperatures now run no higher than a stock car, if anything i have mine running better than a stock car, despite me running in excess of 70-80hop more.

I have also upgraded my spark plugs, altered the spark plug gaps to limit the likelihood of misfires. My next step is the use of OKADA coil packs which have a much stronger spar. What this means is i can increase the spark plug gap,whilst maintain a stronger spark than stock, which means a much cleaner burn within the cylinders. What that means is less lower EGTs, more efficient power and better fuel consumption.

Installing an exhaust with a less restrictive downpipe means there is a lower restriction for the hot side of the turbo, which means less effort is required by the turbo, which also means you can lower the boost if you want and will lower the operating temperature of the turbo thus making it more efficient. Adding an intake means there is less of a restriction on the cold side of the turbo, as it doesnt have to suck as hard to get the required air.

I could go on. The tuning business is absolutely huge. its a multi million industry, which wouldnt be as productive if it wasnt safe. if it truly destroyed engines like you say it wouldnt be much of a business.

As to " if it was perfectly safe, they would do it at a factory" thats a pretty poor observation IMO. For starters there are many factors they consider. Emissions, fuel economy, insurance groups....also the performance has to stick in the range in a given place. a lower model should be outperforming the next model up because otherwise they wuld lose sales.

Also the factorys do provide remaps.

Take for example VAg.

Golf Ed30 2.0TFSI (k04) 230ps

Golf Ed35 2.0TFSI (k04) 235ps

Golf R 2.0TFSI (KO4) 265ps

Audi S3 2.0TFSI (K04) 260ps

Audi TTS 2.0TFSI (K04) 270ps

All identical engines, with identical ECUs, but they use different boost and timing levels on the software to produce different figures to make them more appealing to certain customer bases. These actually remap to exactly the same figure at stage 1. Why because they are identical. So VAg essentially provide remaps.

the same can be said with

Seat Ibiza Fr 1.4TSI 140ps

Seat Ibiza Cupra 1.4TSI 180ps

Both cars have exactly the same engine/turbo/ecu etc. however the Fr is detuned for a lower output. Yet when remapped it will hit the exact same figures as a remapped cupra. So thats another example.

-What about ford with the Mountune kits. Thats a remap that is no different to having any other remap. they all end up with the same figures.

-Mercedes offer brabus power upgrades. Thats a remap that is no different to having any other remap. They all end up with the same figures.

-Mini with the john Cooper works engine modifications. Thats a remap that is no different to having any other remap. they all end up with the same figures.

I could keep on about it, but id imagine you get the point.

Essentially you dont want a remap, and are trying to put other people off.

The only thing i do agree is people need to take responsibility for any problem it causes. You have to be willing to put any required supporting modifications. I certainly am and wouldnt do it if i wasnt happy doing it.

[Ootohere]

vRSy,

Do you mean i am trying to put people off or the poster before me?

I am not trying to do anything, or put anyone off, I am not anti-remap even tho i dont need one on a vRS.

i am replying to a Post.

I am pointing out that Someone trying to get a Warranty claim under a Fraudulant claim if they were to be hiding something,

Car Manufacturers and Warranty companies are not Covering Losses and claims, their Insurance is,

If they wished to take a Civil Action against a False claim or try to re-coup losses then they might just do that,

they are not going to keep paying out on just every TSi engine or DSG claim for ever as many come in in the next couple of years.

Bound to start looking much closer at some vehicles.

also re Road Insurance, some might find theirselves having to Be without Insurance Cover for many years after 'Having Insurance Declined or Withdrawn',

& £2500- £5000 for a replacement engine if it was an attempt at 'Make a false Claim' could be serious.

Also Causing Death By dangerous driving is as bad as it gets,

but there are lesser things that can get you more trouble than you would ever want,

like being an innocent no fault driver involved in a serious accident and getting your car checked over and finding the Insurance are paying out 3rd parties and not covering your losses,

but also Driving 'not in accordance with you licence' is also serious ,

and thats what Insurance being Non Valid due to Un-declared mods is.

I was pointing out, be aware and keep yourself right and legal,

because many many people never have a problem, it does not mean that you will not.

Not aimed at you, i mean 'you' as in anyone.

Just the ones with their head in the sand Ostrich like.

They need to watch the 'Roadwars' or Motorway Police or what ever with the road legal 'Drift Car' piled up at the roadside and how they were treating that cars owner.

george

Edited 27 June, 2012 by sk4gw

[vRSy]

The guy before: Kiwibacon. You posted as i was writing my response to his post.

[VRS-Powered]

Only if you have been mapped by the OBDII port. Bench flashing doesnt cause a flash count change.

Ooooo never knew that