"Resting"

[Llanigraham]

Following the last two days debacle on here I spent last night thinking about the future. I had high hopes for this Forum after the last Yetibashing attack and hoped and thought it had passed. Obviously not.

A "community" has different elements or factions, and not all of them will get on. It's a bit like the local pub, where the "old boys" sit in the Snug doing the crossword and discussing how to put the world to rights, whereas the "noisy sprogs" are in the Bar with the jukebox and the pool table. About the only time they meet is in the loo, BUT they tolerate each other. Note that word, tolerate. Occasionally there might be some banter between them and even some raised voices, but they tolerate each other, and accept their differences.

And there is the point of this missive. Toleration. I don't think certain elements of this "community" have much of it. Yes I complained about the subject title of Nick's thread, because it wasn't obvious to me and others what it meant. Eventually we got an explanation, but by that time the bitterness had started. Since then I've asked for clarification of exactly what should be included in the "Projects" section, but that has also developed into a personal attack on me.

So where do I go from here? I have made good friends on here, from Freshacre to Johann, Tim to Bob, even Brimma, Auric and a few others. I know that if they make a comment it is probably tongue-in-cheek, but if otherwise, it is well meant and probably justified. However there are others who seem to enjoy making personal attacks, sometimes very hurtfully, with no thought what-so-ever. What is worse is that one is a Moderator here, and I have commented to Colin about him. The same names came up in the last attack.

Colin has explained that this "community" originally was formed by what I call the "vrs" element but has since grown, following the increase model range from Skoda. The introduction of the Yeti brought a completely new "group" into the community, and in general one that doesn't fit into the "vrs" concept. So going back to the pub, perhaps we are the Snug crowd. Now in general I find that we tolerate the noisy boys in the Bar quite well, but I'm not sure whether that is reciprocated by all of them. Colin has made a suggestion that as an experiment the Yeti Forum could become slightly autonomous, but there is certainly one member who thinks that is a way of appeasing us. If she(?) actually read what Colin wrote she can see exactly why Colin suggested it, and it is only for the good of the whole Forum, and if it works could be extended.

So where now for me? Early last night I was all for removing myself totally from here, but having now slept on it I'm going to take a "rest", but I will be watching and hoping that I see a difference in the future.

Mods.

This may not appear to be totally Yeti specific, but I hope you will agree to leaving it in the Yeti section.

Graham

[Frenchtone]

Having read your op, all i can add is quite!

I had thought we were all supposed to be adult, the politics of the schoolyard do seem to surface regularly, and some of my comments are on the flippant side, but, being an old traf as you know, I think age brings tolerance, and some of the younger members maybe need to be more explicit with their subjects so the older peeps can more easily understand the point of their op's

Just my personal thoughts!!!

Salut a la Finistere

[The Plumber]

Glad to hear your not leaving us completely Graham and its very :'( that things have got out of hand again.

We all have our personal ways of expressing ourselves and unfortunately with this being a (one dimensional) written form of of communication, then that expression can be miss interpreted; few I suspect would claim to be a Shakespearian word smith.

Regards as always,

TP

[Octygone]

Not sure what is going on ...can I have links to relevant.threads so I can catch up .....not been on here much lately

[gadgetman]

Tidied up and actively monitoring.

Ref other issues, I'm sure Colin will be posting his views shortly in the forum changes thread......

[CFB]

Let me make it perfectly clear that this post is just my opinion.

It is not aimed at anyone in particular.

I saw the air ride thread a few days ago. I kind of had an idea what was being proposed so I took 5 mins to read the 1/2 dozen posts there at the time.

By the time I got to the last one, I had an understanding of what air ride was.

Although it would not be something I would do, I think it would be interesting to see:

a) if it could be done and

whether it would work in the real world, off road needing extra ground clearance and on road being lower for better economy and handling.

Personally, I don't see the problem with the title of the thread. A bit of reading explains it well.

I don't see the need to call something "crap" just because it is not to your taste. A bit more tact and there would not be a problem in the first place.

however, I do not see the need for jumping on such comments with such vigour or venom. A polite response might be more appropriate.

Having read all the way through both threads I found myself chuckling.

I reckon life is too short to not shrug it off and move on

[Evil Miyagi]

* not a personal attack *

* but an observation *

Ive got to admit I was very similar to CFB after reading the threads I struggled to see how and why everybody was getting so, erm, "agitated"?

At the end of the day it would be much easier to ask (novel idea I know) what air ride is?

I personally asked my good friend Google...

I think there's some growing up to be done, life is really too short.

EM

[taff170]

Tidied up and actively monitoring.

Ref other issues, I'm sure Colin will be posting his views shortly in the forum changes thread......

Why did you feel the need to remove JRW's post?

Also why are you "actively monitoring"?

This is supposed to be an open Forum.

As long as there is no abusive posts everybody is entitled to an opinion and to post their thoughts.

[oriki]

Can someone explain in simple English what is going on,what happened and what the fuss is about?

[BossFox]

Can someone explain in simple English what is going on,what happened and what the fuss is about?

Admin member A asked about fitting air ride (air suspension with height control) to a Yeti.

Yeti owning members X and Y jumped in and said it was daft or pointless with no actual constructive ideas or suggestions.

Non Yeti owning members R and S saw the chance for a bit of banter and visited the Yeti forum to provoke a debate.

There was a disagreement.

It got out of hand.

That's about it.

[Gizmo]

^^^ After poster X said:

What an utter load of complete parc!!

(I'm being polite!!)

All his toys were thrown out the pram and he went looking for sympathy.

[jrw]

The title of this thread isn't very descriptive is it?

still waiting to know why 2of my posts on this thread have been deleted...

[yetifabia]

OK - I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but since it's developing - here goes. Graham is a frequent poster on this site and is capable of making interesting and valuable contributions. His habit of sometimes going into microscopic levels of detail could be labelled as pedantry, but this does not do any real harm overall. Unfortunately, he has a couple of habits which can badly upset people and these have now come home to roost. The first of these is a tendency to downright rudeness. When we address someone on an internet forum we are usually talking to a stranger for the first time. We should consider how we would do this in the flesh. I'm pretty sure that a first sentence of, "what you said was complete c**p", wouldn't be well received, and could end up with the loss of a few teeth! The other thing that I would hope he might think about is that you make your point, and if someone raises a new issue you reply to it, but don't keep posting and posting trying to score points on every last detail. You don't "win the argument" by making the last post. Also it doesn't help if you adopt an attitude that anyone who disagrees with you must be mad.

Unfortunately, Graham's post is a tirade of self justification which projects all of the blame onto others. I would hope that he will find a way to use his time in "exile" to consider how he might change his own behaviour so that we can have the benefit of his thoughts without the rudeness and with sufficient humility to accept that other's opinions are as valid as his own. That would be a win-win situation.

[Truthseeker]

OK - I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but since it's developing - here goes. Graham is a frequent poster on this site and is capable of making interesting and valuable contributions. His habit of sometimes going into microscopic levels of detail could be labelled as pedantry, but this does not do any real harm overall. Unfortunately, he has a couple of habits which can badly upset people and these have now come home to roost. The first of these is a tendency to downright rudeness. When we address someone on an internet forum we are usually talking to a stranger for the first time. We should consider how we would do this in the flesh. I'm pretty sure that a first sentence of, "what you said was complete c**p", wouldn't be well received, and could end up with the loss of a few teeth! The other thing that I would hope he might think about is that you make your point, and if someone raises a new issue you reply to it, but don't keep posting and posting trying to score points on every last detail. You don't "win the argument" by making the last post. Also it doesn't help if you adopt an attitude that anyone who disagrees with you must be mad.

Unfortunately, Graham's post is a tirade of self justification which projects all of the blame onto others. I would hope that he will find a way to use his time in "exile" to consider how he might change his own behaviour so that we can have the benefit of his thoughts without the rudeness and with sufficient humility to accept that other's opinions are as valid as his own. That would be a win-win situation.

Well stated!

[The Hood]

I did not join in with the recent "debate" although I did read it. I agree that the Yeti in the main seems to attract an older age group (if you own a Yeti and are younger than me please don't take offence). Because of the models low age it means that all are still under warranty and it is not yet in the hands of the modifiers/customisers. It is also relatively expensive.

The other areas probably have a higher percentage of younger people and sometimes the two elements can "fall out". I am still a newcomer but I have seen two other occaisions when things got lively, one invovling Graham, and the other with poor old Truthseeker when he ended up burning his bra.

I read all the Forums as there are items of interest and the chance to learn in all areas, Graham has a very distinctive manner of posting but is always one of the first to help out when he can, and the Forum would be a poorer place without him.

I along with some others here also follow another Forum which is aimed at Yeti owners only and has almost 330 members, it is very different to this Forum and can go for days without a post. We all need each other to make Briskoda what it is, I expect that I am less tolerant than I used to be, SWMBO certainly is! Lets hope that the fueding is at an end and we less young people can be a little more tolerant, and those who are the age we would like to be can be the same.

Let's hope Graham does not take too long off, some one needs to keep Bobdog under control?

[Macdemon]

At the end of the day, as it's already been pointed out we're ALL supposed to be adult and mature about this. If someone wishes to start a serious or lighthearted debate pertaining to the subject of 'air riding' then as an adult I have no problem with it.

I personally think that if you don't agree with a thread or idea, you simply 'gloss over it' and move onto another thread. By retorting to comments one would be 'inciting' provocation and that's what is happening here.

Can we not just agree or just ignore threads/subjects we're not interested in or think are a 'waste of time' It's all subjective and the idea is not a 'waste of time' to the original poster.

Graham, I hope you remain around for MANY years to come as you have a place here and I always enjoy reading your valuable and informative contributions.

[Nick P]

Let's hope Graham does not take too long off

Me too. He seems to provide plenty of valuable input most of the time.

some one needs to keep Bobdog under control?

He threatened to leave the forum back in October. He decided not to. I found the way he spoke to me pretty disgusting and disrespectful and if that's how he wants to continue talking to people, I would welcome him to reconsider his decision. I would however prefer it if he would just adjust his attitude and try and get along.

[Anzio]

Graham there is no need to quit this forum, you have have the 4x4 experience a lot of folk on here don't have, so your input is invaluable.

I too was given a bit of nonsense in the thread, but put it down to the B and B parrot show.

Get back on here ASAP.

[gadgetman]

The title of this thread isn't very descriptive is it?

still waiting to know why 2of my posts on this thread have been deleted...

As with a number of others in order to maintain the peace.

[taff170]

As with a number of others in order to maintain the peace.

We're any of them abusive or contain any particularly nasty or offensive words?

If not they should have been left where they were.

IMO the Mods are taking the deletion or moving of posts as a right they have if they don't like what they see.

Over nannying is killing the country, don't let it kill Briskoda.

[gadgetman]

Taff170, that's our call to make.

[Babs]

"Not dead, just resting" it says on many tombstones...

...but there is certainly one member who thinks that is a way of appeasing us. If she(?) actually read what Colin wrote she can see exactly why Colin suggested it, and it is only for the good of the whole Forum, and if it works could be extended.

I'm a he, which you'd figure out if you'd actually read my signature, where it clearly says the name my mother gave me, Andrew.

I'm pretty sure that a first sentence of, "what you said was complete c**p", wouldn't be well received, and could end up with the loss of a few teeth!

He can try

I'm pretty much exactly the same in the flesh. I do not suffer fools. Note, in this case "suffer" is a synonym for "tolerate".

This thread - as has been noted by others before me - is yet another in the long line of vein attempts to justify yourself, make you appear as a shining beacon of all moral authority and make yourself feel better.

In time-honoured tradition of threads where people throw their toys out of the pram and claim to leave, I have but this to say:

[taff170]

Taff170, that's our call to make.

Precisely, but it seems that the mods dont consult each other before deleting, moving etc.

This means that something that one Mod thinks needs deleting another may not.

If two+ mods agree to remove etc it takes away the doubt in people's minds that the mods acting alone are abusing their position.

This is just an observation and to be fair the mods mainly due a cold job keeping the peace.

Also by removing posts with no explanation some of the threads make no sense, why not post that a thread has been removed and give a reason?

Also I read JRW post before it was removed and it was a lot more diluted than Babs post, so how come that's still on?

No offence to Babs, I'm just stating a fact.

Edited 12 August, 2012 by taff170

[gadgetman]

If taff170 you can do a better job, fill your boots. You certainly have enough to say about how crap staff are - quite regularly in fact.

[fox2319]

As a mod on another forum, this can't always be relied on. Often, only one mod is available and needs to make the decision unilaterally.

You say over-nannying is killing this country, so is over-regulation. It's their call to make, posting on here isn't a 'right' so they can even choose to edit our posts to make us look silly if they want to. Besides, did you read all the terms you signed up to when you registered?