<Off-topic>A short side note on the ESP side discussion. I do agree that ESP is generally a good thing as it increases security should things go wrong in the traffic, but: the only time I (driven rear wheel drive cars for 10 years) have been in real trouble was when our Yeti lost traction on the rear wheels (luckily at low speed, around 25 mph or so) and both I and the car worked hard to correct the same slide resulting in massive overcorrection which then needed to be corrected to the other side etc etc. Had that situation been in a car without ESP I would have flipped the steering wheel the opposite direction, let go of the throttle, and driven of noticing it was slippery, but with the ESP things got a lot more hectic. </off-topic>

Interesting raz, so far with ESP in winter driving, particularly our lightweight Fabia, I've found it a help keeping the back end in check rather than a hindrance. Even with proper winter tyres, it's so light that loosing traction is a common occurrence on compacted snow.

Back to the Yeti and I have a feeling that the back end can be prone to the 'pendulum effect' i.e. front has traction rear not and the result is the back tries to overtake the front. Had this with the first Yeti edging down a hill in a snow fall on the silly summer sports tyres (before I knew better ) and before I could react the back came out and flipped us round 180 deg; tobogganed down the hill backwards for a little while before coming to rest in a grass bank

TP

<Off-topic>A short side note on the ESP side discussion. I do agree that ESP is generally a good thing as it increases security should things go wrong in the traffic, but: the only time I (driven rear wheel drive cars for 10 years) have been in real trouble was when our Yeti lost traction on the rear wheels (luckily at low speed, around 25 mph or so) and both I and the car worked hard to correct the same slide resulting in massive overcorrection which then needed to be corrected to the other side etc etc. Had that situation been in a car without ESP I would have flipped the steering wheel the opposite direction, let go of the throttle, and driven of noticing it was slippery, but with the ESP things got a lot more hectic. </off-topic>

Not sure I follow really as the only time ESP has activated on my Yeti has been to correct rear oversteer and i think it's probably not too far from the truth to say that it saved my bacon. I wouldn't order a new car without it now.

ESP saved my A4, winter 2010, the A66 junction off the M6 heading towards Brough, I slowed onto the slip road that is a full 360' junction I think I was in third gear and doing about 30 which is slow and the car hit black ice, before I could even correct the vehicle dash lights flashed, the revs dropped and ESP had saved the car from the outside barrier. Incredible technology.

If I were you the_raz I would get your car in for a check to see if ESP is working

If I were you the_raz I would get your car in for a check to see if ESP is working

+1, or maybe you over corrected because you were reacting as though the car didn't have ESP.

I've had the ESP cut in quite a bit (when driving full tilt round a track) and it's very capable and always did exactly what I was expecting.

+1, or maybe you over corrected because you were reacting as though the car didn't have ESP....always did exactly what I was expecting.

Hmmm...interesting point, that. How do you know what to expect with ESP before you've experienced it? If/when I find myself in trouble for the first time in the Yeti, instinct/experience will prompt me to react myself - does this mean inevitable over-correction? It would/will be very difficult, in the heat of the moment, not to take the positive action that my instinct for self-preservation demands. :think:

Hmmm...interesting point, that. How do you know what to expect with ESP before you've experienced it? If/when I find myself in trouble for the first time in the Yeti, instinct/experience will prompt me to react myself - does this mean inevitable over-correction? It would/will be very difficult, in the heat of the moment, not to take the positive action that my instinct for self-preservation demands. :think:

This is exactly what happened to me since this was the first time in very many years that I had a totally unexpected rear wheel slide. As said I drove rear wheel drive cars (Volvo 240, 340, BMW 3-series) and those were very fun to drive in the winter as long as you did not need to go anywhere in particular (steering in corners more with throttle than steering wheel etc) so the feeling of rear wheel slide was nowhere near new for me. On the opposite, I learned to drive and expect a slide in the wintertime every now and then, and that instinct clearly remains - and instincts are a lot faster the conscious thinking. So when I felt the slide I did exactly what I had done in the rear wheel cars as well to solve the slide, only this time the car did the same as well resulting in a lot of extra work for both of us.

Don't get me wrong on this - the ESP worked exactly the way it should to stop a slide that could have gotten nasty with an unexperienced driver, and had i just steered in the direction I wanted to go everything would have been fine and dandy. This situation with a car without ESP and an unexperienced driver would most certainly have resulted in the car doing a 180 and ending up in the bushes between the lanes. The only problem here was that I acted on instinct meaning I did more than was needed because the car took over correcting the slide.

Lesson: Make sure you get a decent chance to throw your car around and feel how the electronics work in correcting slides so you are prepared when something unexpected happens. And I definately think the ESP is a very good invention despite this incident, because in the end of the day myself, the car and everybody around us escaped this incident undamaged, so the electronics did their job as they were supposed to.

I too have memories of rear wheel drive cars and sudden loss of rear end grip-I had a Toyota Soarer which bit like a cornered rat- Losing the rear in a Yeti whether 4wd or Fwd is, I would guess a different thing, and would be more like losing a mini-which I have also done in my younger more stupid days.

ESP is designed to keep the car going in the direction you point the steering wheel, as that's the only indication the car has of what direction is the correct one.

So if you dial in an amount of steering lock the ESP will work to fire the car in the direction you swing the wheel.

There are some track videos on youtube of the same thing, the driver corrects and the car is spat off the track as it goes where the steering wheel is pointed.

I have done a few track days in my Yeti now and the secret is a very minor amount of corrective steering, which makes it feel better at high speed by balancing the car a bit more, but it does work if you make no corrective steering at all. In the later case it slows you down more, which is not good if you are trying to go fast.

You have to remember ESP is there for members of the public, the vast majority of which have no idea what to do when it all goes wrong. They usually just hold on tightly as they have no intuition of corrective steering or balancing the weight of the vehicle over it's four rubber contact patches.

Then personally I would say go for a 2 wheel drive and a set of winter tyres.

Rather different from your position of just one year ago, I think? http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/214270-will-you-be-switching-to-winter-tyres-this-year/page__st__30 --see post #52 among others.

Edited 30 September, 201213 yr by r999

Rather different from your position of just one year ago, I think? http://www.briskoda....ar/page__st__30 --see post #52 among others.

So?

Slightly different discussion here, as we are talking about the choice between 2 and 4 wheel drive, and in the OP's situation I consider that a TWO wheel drive vehicle with winter tyres is more suitable to his needs. Going 4WD could result in inexperienced people taking risks because they think the 4WD is the great cure-all, which it isn't.

So?

So this: a year ago you were boasting about your 'consistency' in insisting repeatedly that winter tyres were a new-fangled invention that were not worth bothering with.

Now you'll have to come up with a new rationalisation of your position. I'm sure you'll manage it.

Edited 1 October, 201213 yr by r999

Whatever.

I am not required to justify myself to you.