Has anybody gone from Xenons back to Halogen?

[booke23]

I'm not arguing that they're not better than Halogen; just that the premium for them is disproportionate. They're also more costly to repair e.g. after an accident or to get a car through its MOT, and I see them as a liability in a car out of warranty.

But they're less of a liability than Airbags, ABS, ESC and no more of a liability than a dozen other features.

That's modern motoring for you.

[Felicia racer]

My clio has standard xenons, they are absolutely fantastic.

Fabia halogens :( epic fail.

I am considering a hid kit, as the Fabia has projectors anyway.

Less likely to get stopped, because let's be honest hids in reflector headlights really stand out.

It really does make a difference.

The bonus with the clio was, low beam xenons stayed on when the halogen hi beam came on making even more available light rather than flipping the beam.

Not that i needed to use hi beam in the clio that often. most of the time the standard xenons where good enough.

Edited 14 November, 2012 by Felicia racer

[mr_awol]

Ahhh.....(as in Bisto? or bu11sh:t?), then you don't know that as well as currently owning another car which came with them as standard, I've owned at least a couple of others with them as standard and had a company car with them too.

I'm not arguing that they're not better than Halogen; just that the premium for them is disproportionate. They're also more costly to repair e.g. after an accident or to get a car through its MOT, and I see them as a liability in a car out of warranty.

They're a bit like HDTV or (mobile) broadband in my opinion. I can cope fine with SDTV, 1/4 Meg broadband and my first mobile data allowance of a whole 5Mb per month was more than adequate a few years ago. 4G is a bit like the Emperor's new clothes.

You might have over egged the pudding a little there.

My point being that they are undeniably a huge improvement. Yes, £800 is a big premium for them (up to £400 they'd be a no brainier for me but I can see why people might not want to go to the best part of a grand) but denouncing HDTV, fast broadband and xenons in the way you did, with the examples you gave, is a bit daft. Whilst I am sure it was meant to come arcriss as observational comedy about the way modern society flocks to pointless gimmicks, it actually went to the point of looking like a tightarse who would rather settle for mediocrity than accept that time has moved on.....

:p

Edited 14 November, 2012 by mr_awol

[Perc]

Yeah, who needs newfangled halogens anyways? Incandascent is where it's at.

[booke23]

Yes, on reflection I have decided all this modern stuff on the cars is above and beyond.

I have just been outside with a hammer and, forthwith, destroyed my xenon headlights. Earlier I visited an antique emporium, where I bought a pair of lamps from an 1875 one horse cart. They cost me £300 and are made from Brass.

Tomorrow I am taking the car to a traditional blacksmith to have the lamps braised onto the car. The lamps use one candle each, so I'll have a total of two candle power output, which is more than adequate for a gentleman to see in the dark. I have also decided to wear a top hat and tails at all times while driving.......this wearing jeans and a t-shirt business is over rated too.

[mr_awol]

Yes, on reflection I have decided all this modern stuff on the cars is above and beyond.

I have just been outside with a hammer and, forthwith, destroyed my xenon headlights. Earlier I visited an antique emporium, where I bought a pair of lamps from an 1875 one horse cart. They cost me £300 and are made from Brass.

Tomorrow I am taking the car to a traditional blacksmith to have the lamps braised onto the car. The lamps use one candle each, so I'll have a total of two candle power output, which is more than adequate for a gentleman to see in the dark. I have also decided to wear a top hat and tails at all times while driving.......this wearing jeans and a t-shirt business is over rated too.

Haha don't forget to have the power steering disconnected (too lazy) and the airbags taken out (never had those much in the 80s) and whilst you're at it take out the air con. Actually, leave the air con but only set it to come on when the temperature if the car is minus five, to recreate the way that in the winter the heater in my old metro used to somehow send out air colder than the stuff that went into it.

These new fangled engines are just a recipe for disaster too. What you need is a 1.3 petrol that runs on four star, gives 20 to the gallon and will eventually propel the car to 60, probably, if only someone could build a road long enough....

(Now THAT's sarcasm)

[silver1011]

Xenon's are brighter than halgens therefore I can see more.

Being able to see more at night is important to me.

The beam pattern is different on some xenon set-ups. On the Superb for example the beam is adjusted further up the road depending on the speed and also alters to take into account the effects of rain and spray. They also turn with the steering. All of these are benefits offered over and above halogens.

I never pay for xenon's as I alway buy used, I simpy wait for the right specced car to come along before changing.

There is a reason xenon's ask a premium over halogens, they are better and are therefore more desirable.

LED headlights will take this debate to another level in years to come, but rest assured they will improve visibility, they will be more desirable and they will cost more to buy.

[Jeeves]

OK guys, extreme examples maybe, but you get the idea. The point I was trying to make was that you don't miss what you don't have. I used the broadband analogy because I get (just very slowly) when BT say I shouldn't be able to get it. So when it went "off" for a couple of months it was merely an inconvenience rather than a crisis.

For the £800 mentioned above, I would go for a sunroof every time as its a useful extra feature rather than an improvement of an existing one like Xenons are. But my values are not the same as everyones.

I guess what I'm trying to make the point about is that I've learnt that your money is better spent towards the next trim level up where you recoup more of what you spent than by adding the option to your order or retrofitting it.

I've only ever bought one car that came by default with a sunroof - and I got 72% back on that 5 years later! As every one of those cars had one (only one trim level) it wasn't even a differentiator that you normally accept as being just a bonus to the next buyer.

I have heard stories of cars fitted with Xenons, but either failed or missing self-levelling (ditto self-cleaning) that then fail MOT. OK, this is very rare, but probably more expensive to rectify than some of the fixes to sort out those other issues mentioned above.

Horses for courses...round these parts anyway.

[mr_awol]

Fair play to Jeeves for taking a bit of light hearted banter in good spirits.

As for a sunroof, I must admit my last Octy was the first car I've had since my original learner metro which didnt have a sunroof (ok, the previous car to the Octy didn't have one but it was a convertible so you could argue it had a very BIG sunroof). I missed it at first, but don't now. I'd prefer one over not having one though.

Although what if it leaks(!)?

[sparky750]

It's the big thing I miss when I drive the vrs compared to my own car or the BMW that it replaced I didn't give it a second thought when buying but I'd never buy another car without xenons. I've been reading up on the best way to get my Octavia II vrs brighter interested in any kits or lamps recommended

[Jockdooshbag]

OK guys, extreme examples maybe, but you get the idea. The point I was trying to make was that you don't miss what you don't have. I used the broadband analogy because I get (just very slowly) when BT say I shouldn't be able to get it. So when it went "off" for a couple of months it was merely an inconvenience rather than a crisis.

For the £800 mentioned above, I would go for a sunroof every time as its a useful extra feature rather than an improvement of an existing one like Xenons are. But my values are not the same as everyones.

I guess what I'm trying to make the point about is that I've learnt that your money is better spent towards the next trim level up where you recoup more of what you spent than by adding the option to your order or retrofitting it.

I've only ever bought one car that came by default with a sunroof - and I got 72% back on that 5 years later! As every one of those cars had one (only one trim level) it wasn't even a differentiator that you normally accept as being just a bonus to the next buyer.

I have heard stories of cars fitted with Xenons, but either failed or missing self-levelling (ditto self-cleaning) that then fail MOT. OK, this is very rare, but probably more expensive to rectify than some of the fixes to sort out those other issues mentioned above.

Horses for courses...round these parts anyway.

I agree. The price premium for xenons is ridiculous. I would rather spec something that added something to the vehicle as opposed to slightly improving an already existing feature. I actually dont think they improve anything over the standard light myself as i dont get any benefit from having the same illuminated footprint being slightly brighter as even if it was 10 times brighter it would still not be adequate for unlit rural roads as its range you need in these situations. Some like having a brighter illumintaed footprint but no range increase and i have no issue with this but its wasted money for me i would rather spend £800 on numerous other features or just save the money completely. If high beam assist was £800 i would spec this over xenons every time.

I also agree that if buying 2nd hand and you like xenons then it makes sense to pick a car with them specced as you wont be paying the full premium for them as the original owner has already taken the hit on that one.

When LED lights are commonplace then what next? How bright do we need the same footprint of road illuminated? Ultimately headlight technology is limited by MOT restrictions therfore any advances in headlights will probably be in things like directional lighting, lower power consumption, increased reliability or some other clever gimmick. Simply making them brighter is pointless after all you could have floodlights bolted to your car but if they are restricted to the same parameters as halogen lights then what is the point.

Night vision screens in the dash at reasonable prices is what we need. Already proven technology in high end cars now that woukld be worth £800 of my money.

[nickguzzi]

You should try driving behind some proper HID's. I can only imagine you are talking about the "XENON" marked halogen bulbs which are an attempt to provide a whiter light.

HID's will throw vast quantities of light MUCH further down the road, if this is not the case for you, then something is wrong somewere.

[Jockdooshbag]

You should try driving behind some proper HID's. I can only imagine you are talking about the "XENON" marked halogen bulbs which are an attempt to provide a whiter light.

HID's will throw vast quantities of light MUCH further down the road, if this is not the case for you, then something is wrong somewere.

I have owned 2 cars with xenons. Didnt rate them at all. Its impossible for them to throw light further down the road. The angle of projection is the same as for halogen lights.

[gsp]

It has to be noted that the Octavia Xenons are not as good as a true bi-xenon (on the superb I think). I went from a BMW that had bi-xenon (with the shuttter) to an Octavia with Xenon. With dipped beam, not much difference, but the Octavia cornering function was an improvement.

On main beam with the shutter flipped up the Xenons point directly ahead and light up a long way away, the secondary main beam halogens might as well have not bean there as all the light came from the Xenon.

With the Octavia there is no shutter, so it relies on the secondary halogen for main beam which isn't as good and I was quite disappointed. So as suggested by another member, put some Osram night-breaker in the main beam (same wattage, but brighter light), which helped a bit.

So back to the thread.. in my mind I have "gone back to halogens" for main beam and didn't like it. As others have said though depends on whether you drive on country roads a lot in the dark.

[gregoir]

I agree that dipped beams are constrained by their anti dazzle cut off.

But main beams surely can be over a wider area and intensity 'down the road'

[mannyo]

The Superb uses a BI-Xenon setup, and has a shutter that moves for main beam thus utilising the same bulb for both dipped and main beam. The Xenon setup on the Superb also has cornering lights with AFS function which dynamically alters the beam as you drive based on speed and weather conditions.

On the motorway the beam is extremely long and lights up well into the distance, and around town are equivallent to standard Halogen to avoid dazzling other drivers.

When its raining the beam pattern is different again, so as to avoid aiming the lights into the rain obscuring the drivers view.

Below certain speeds the headlights also turn in reaction to steering input, thus you can see more of the road as you start to enter the corner.

The Halogen version of the Superb lights do none of the above, and would be something I miss.

[nickguzzi]

"I have owned 2 cars with xenons. Didnt rate them at all. Its impossible for them to throw light further down the road. The angle of projection is the same as for halogen lights."

Perhaps a quick study of the inversre square law, and look up the intensity of output of HIds compared to halogens.

[wantaskoda]

When I started this I was looking at the Superb with Xenon's. It is interesting how somebody mentioned the sunroof as I also have a sunroof in my L&K. When I got back in it on Tuesday I was driving along and naturally tilted the roof open as it gives a nice bit of fresh air that you dont get by opening a window.

I had a quote back from the dealer to upgrade from my two year old L&K with 76k to a superb elegance, but it was just too much to change, so for now I get to keep my xenons (which I love) and also my sunroof (which I love).

happy motoring.

[booke23]

Fair play to Jeeves for taking a bit of light hearted banter in good spirits.

Here here.

I had a quote back from the dealer to upgrade from my two year old L&K with 76k to a superb elegance, but it was just too much to change, so for now I get to keep my xenons (which I love) and also my sunroof (which I love).

Oh well, never mind. At least it got a good old debate going on here!

[Jeeves]

Thanks chaps. So you're not the awkward b'stards I thought you were on p2.

As a token of my appreciation here's a little personal anecdote involving headlights which makes me appreciate ANY headlights.

I got into motorbikes late in life (over 40), and had no experience before buying a competition replica 2-stroke dirtbike. Completed Direct Access and past my test all with a view to competing offroad and legally crossing the odd road without getting off and looking like a berk.

Bike was road-legal with inclusion of a headlight, but this made it virtually impossible to kickstart since the "stator" was a bodge on the handful of replicas made.

I trailered it to a mechanically-minded mate's house where he diagnosed the problem, fitted the original motocross stator and disconnected the headlight.

I was now ready for my first ever unaccompanied solo ride - on a dirtbike with no lights and with acclimatised eyesight telling me it would be dark very soon - about to commit to a 35 mile trip!

Thankfully I had planned my route almost exclusively on backroads, but with overhanging trees it got dark almost immediately to the point that I was very aware of bats flying about. One "road" only stood out because it was a lighter black than the blacker bits either side, and the black bits in the middle could have been islands of grass, cow pats or pot holes - all hazards!

Four miles from my destination i was forced to go through a small town and so dismounted and walked my bike downhill pretending it had broken down. Fortunately I was "flashed"by a sympathetic motorist who persuaded me to ride in front of them using their headlights to see. I wasn't about to say "No thanks" just because they were lowly Halogens (had to get that one in ).

2-strokes can be noisy especially when ridden past the local Police Station as fast as possible!

Final leg from the town and I celebrate on a long straight accelerating hard and leaving the car some distance behind. Road drops down over a brow and then into a couple of bends and so do I. U fortunately the car is so far behind by now that not a single photon was cast on my path and my unadaped eyes were effectively blind.

I did make it to the destination a couple of miles away, but I think I lost one of my nine lives that night of my first solo ride.

Sorry - just realised I forgot to put which country (or continent) this all took place in!

[stevetdci]

I actually find the light spread better on xenons than on halogens. I've been comparing mine to others on the way home and mine seem yo light the sides up better.

What I do think is the next bright idea is the lights that automatically switch between full and dipped automatically.

[mr_awol]

What I do think is the next bright idea is the lights that automatically switch between full and dipped automatically.

I'm struggling to see how that would work, but struggling even more to see why it would be necessary......

[Anddenton]

IWhat I do think is the next bright idea is the lights that automatically switch between full and dipped automatically.

Don't some Audi's already have this?

[Jockdooshbag]

"I have owned 2 cars with xenons. Didnt rate them at all. Its impossible for them to throw light further down the road. The angle of projection is the same as for halogen lights."

Perhaps a quick study of the inversre square law, and look up the intensity of output of HIds compared to halogens.

Exactly the response i expected. Light intensity is not the point. Angle of projection is the issue and this angle is the same for all headlights. As i said before there is nom point having lights 10 times brighter if they still point to the deck.

Bi-xenons are a different kettle of fish. Having xenon bulbs for the full beams would make a huge difference. I have never experienced bi-xenons as my cars only had normal xenons. I dare say bi-xenons would be a vast improvement. My xenons were useless on the country roads as the simply are too limited and constrained by the laws set down by VOSA to avoid dazzling. My normal full beams did the job when there was no oncoming traffic and this was the csae with or without xenons. I would certainly like xenon full beams but i am managing fine without them.

Edited 16 November, 2012 by Jockdooshbag

[Chappers.]

I don't think that the main beam "pattern" on the Octavia helps either. Although I've not had any experience of the facelift in the dark as yet, I've driven countless miles in the dark in pre-facelift models and always found that the main beam was a very spread out pattern and seemed to aim upwards - great for slightly illuminating tree tops in the distance but not very good for lighting up the road! An old 55 plate Vectra had an awesome main beam by comparison - almost like a set of spot lights - very direct and bright exactly where I wanted it - on the road straight ahead of me for some distance - in fact I had to turn back to dipped if approaching large road signs due to the reflection coming back off them.