Winter Tires - Suitable All Year Round?

[BobbyG79]

Hello fellow Yeti-loving brethren....

I'm genuinely sorry for re-opening the can of worms that tyre recommendation/opinion tends to be however I'll soon be delving into the market for new rubber.

I'd really like to get my hands on some winter tyres, but are there major downsides of having these on the car all year round? I simply don't have the space/inclination to run 2 separate sets.

I'm now also aware of these 4 season-type tyres, but are they really that much better than summer tyres in the snow?

Taverymuch

BobbyG

[BossFox]

I find the winters do noticably lose grip above around +10c.

My wife has the Goodyear 4season tyres and they are far better (obviously) as an all round tyre.

I've driven it on trips in +25c in the summer and it's fine, almost as good as summer tyres. Also it is far better in snow and icy conditions.

[900000]

Of course you can run them all year. A winter tyre gives something like 90% of the performance of a summer tyre in the summer, where a summer tyre only gives 40% of the performance of a winter tyre in the winter. Even the tyre companies will tell you to do so as it is the best. FOR THEM of course. Winter rubber is soft and you will use them up in now time during the summer meaning, kerching... another set of tyres to buy and exactly the reason why the tyre companies say run them all year... So as long as you realise you will be putting on rubber a LOT more frequently, by all means, use winter tyres all year.

[BobbyG79]

Good advice fellas, thanks.....I don't fancy replacing the tyres too frequently, could be swaying towards the 4 Season variety

[900000]

Good advice fellas, thanks.....I don't fancy replacing the tyres too frequently, could be swaying towards the 4 Season variety

Just don't for a moment think all seasons are remotely the same as winter tyres... they're not. They are a half breed stop gap that is neither amazing in summer nor amazing in winter. They will get you by in either season and that's it. See video two in this thread where they test some all season tyres next to winter tyres:

http://www.briskoda....r-tyres-thread/

[r999]

Winter rubber is soft and you will use them up in now time during the summer meaning, kerching... another set of tyres to buy and exactly the reason why the tyre companies say run them all year... So as long as you realise you will be putting on rubber a LOT more frequently, by all means, use winter tyres all year.

Well, that may be a bit over-stated. The figures I've seen suggest that winter tyres wear 15% faster than summer ones at 20 to 25 degrees C. Whereas summer tyres wear 20% faster than winter ones at below 7 degrees C. So summer tyres suffer more wear if used in winter than do winter tyres if used in summer. There is no free lunch here.

But one then has to take into account the fact that 'summer' lasts a lot longer than 'winter'. Remember, 'summer' for present purposes means 'temperatures above 7 degrees C during the hours I am actually driving' and winter means below that. In the light of where I live and the times I drive, that means summer lasts 8 months and winter lasts 4. If I I did all my driving in the middle of the night, 'summer' might last only 6 months and then the wear factors I quote above would tip the balance in favour of keeping winter tyres on all year.

[175GDY]

I have found my AllYearRound tires.

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The Yokohama A/T-S tires in 215/60R16 have now done about 8500 km and I start wondering why I bought the Nokian Hakka7.

[900000]

Well, that may be a bit over-stated. The figures I've seen suggest that winter tyres wear 15% faster than summer ones at 20 to 25 degrees C. Whereas summer tyres wear 20% faster than winter ones at below 7 degrees C. So summer tyres suffer more wear if used in winter than do winter tyres if used in summer. There is no free lunch here.

Which makes sense and is fair enough... BUT as you said yourself there, winter only lasts for 4 months. So for only four months of the year do the summer tyres wear out faster. The winter tyres will wear out faster for EIGHT months of the year at a rate circa 5% more than summer tyres do in the winter.... The math is easy to do from there I'd say...

[Llanigraham]

Bobby,

I'm in the same boat as you as I have no-where to store tyres, at the moment, but it might be worth asking either your local dealer or a local independent tyre place whether they would store them for you. It is a route I might take.

[r999]

Which makes sense and is fair enough... BUT as you said yourself there, winter only lasts for 4 months. So for only four months of the year do the summer tyres wear out faster. The winter tyres will wear out faster for EIGHT months of the year at a rate circa 5% more than summer tyres do in the winter.... The math is easy to do from there I'd say...

I am aware that EIGHT, as you put it, is more than FOUR. I'm not sure why you are repeating the point I've already made, but do feel free to make my point again for me.

[900000]

I am aware that EIGHT, as you put it, is more than FOUR. I'm not sure why you are repeating the point I've already made, but do feel free to make my point again for me.

I didn't repeat your point. You said (if I'm not mistaken) that within certain criteria there might be a point (in releation to temperature in the UK) where it is financially feasible to have winter tyres on all year around. My point was that I really don't see such a point ever (in the UK). They do not make financial sense to have on all year around as they wear out faster (unless as you say, you do all your driving in the middle of the night! )

[Anzio]

I was going down the road of Goodyear4 seasons but they are difficult to get in 225/50/17, ( and I know some have got them, and several tyre sites say they stock them )but after driving in the recent snow on threequarter worn OE Dunlop sports and not getting stuck once, or noticing any sign of wheel spin etc I'm begining to wonder is it worth it. As other posts have said, most of GB doesn't get below 7C for very long,and thinking even more in 50 years of motoring I can only remember getting stuck once, and that was in 1963 in an old split screen Morris Minor, which in those days had less tread than my trainers.

So If you are going to do lots of snowy driving it may be worth it, on the other hand the cars 4wd system is so good that unless you are a complete muppet at driving I don't think you need worry too much.

[MCAMRA]

BUT as you said yourself there, winter only lasts for 4 months.

Winter does not really exist anymore ! We just have sporadic cold snaps across a four month period between November & March that probably total less than 4 weeks. Economically, good quality Summer tyres (which are probably more all season tyres these days) are still more cost effective.

[BobbyG79]

What a minefield!

[MCAMRA]

Yes and no.

The answer depends on where you live and how dependent you are/use your car on a daily basis.

If you need that absolute assurance of mobility then quite clearly two set of tyres 'winter' and 'summer' are the way to go. 'All season' tyres are an option...but I think an expensive option in the long term...especially in a very hot summer when they will just wear away.

If you can get away with it during some 'crap' weather' which 'lets be honest' is not that common within a 12 month period, then summers on a good car are fine. But that depends of course on how confident you are driving in snow/ice/bad weather ect when it does come.

This magical figure of 7 Degrees or below (optiimum performance for a winter tyres) is true, but I am sure that statistics will show that over recent years, the daytime temperature across the whole of the winter period (4 months) exceeded that, which makes this figure irelevant to 'most' of us.

So and the end of the day its a personal choice, based on personal circumstances. But I would say, the safest choice are still one set of 'winter' and one set of 'summer' tyres.

[The Plumber]

Hi Bobby,

you say you need new boots, is this two or 4 :wonder:

If your going to just replace two then best to stick with what's on the other axle e.g. summers, as it's best not to mix tyres designed for different seasons.

Otherwise if it's four tyres and storage of winters is a issue I'd go with the Goodyear Vector 4season or Hankooks Optimo 4S.

Try Camskill for supply they also offer a price beater

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m140b0s8019p105296/Goodyear_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Goodyear_Vector_4_Season_-_225_50_R17_94V_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_E_Wet_Grip%3A_C_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_70dB

TP

[StewartK]

Bobby,

I'm in the same boat as you as I have no-where to store tyres, at the moment, but it might be worth asking either your local dealer or a local independent tyre place whether they would store them for you. It is a route I might take.

I'm not recommending them but Kwik-Fit say they have a "Tyre Hotel" where they will store your tyres if you're swapping summer/winter. They only store tyres not rims. I think the cost is £45 but can't find the cost on the Kwik-Fit website.

[r999]

Dearie me. Why let the facts get in the way when you can rely on lazy guesswork?

'All season' tyres are an option...but I think an expensive option in the long term...especially in a very hot summer when they will just wear away.

The data show that at 25 degrees C, a typical all-season tyre wears 10% faster than a typical summer tyre. But the tyre test data also show that the Vector 4Seasons is not typical, it's an exceptionally long-wearing all-season tyre. That is borne out by my experience of running two cars on 4Seasons, two cars that are swopped between winter and summer tyres, and one car on summer tyres all the year round. All tread depths are measured at least twice a year. In my experience the 4Seasons outlasts many summer tyres. The suggestion that it 'will just wear away' in summer is quite wrong, and that word 'will' gives it away: you are giving us guesswork, saloon-bar 'wisdom', but not facts or experience.

This magical figure of 7 Degrees or below (optiimum performance for a winter tyres) is true, but I am sure that statistics will show that over recent years, the daytime temperature across the whole of the winter period (4 months) exceeded that, which makes this figure irelevant to 'most' of us.

You are 'sure that statistics will show...', but you don't actually bother to look at the statistics. Hence you are surely wrong.

This is a UK site, so let us take somewhere about half-way down (or up) the country. Let it be 50 feet above sea level. Let us look at its average daytime temperature for the winter months. Figures from the Met Office in degrees C:

November: 5.4

December: 2.9

January: 2.8

February: 3.1

March: 4.9

Are you still "sure"? Do you rely on this guesswork approach when you make your living, or do you just save it up for online forums?

Edited 1 February, 2013 by r999

[Sporky McGuffin]

Economically, good quality Summer tyres (which are probably more all season tyres these days) are still more cost effective.

Only if you discount the risk factors. With winter tyres on you're less likely to have an accident when it's cold. One accident could cost more (in excess and increased premiums) than a set of winter tyres.

And summer tyres are very much not the same as all season tyres, hence having a different classification.

[MCAMRA]

Dearie me. Why let the facts get in the way when you can rely on lazy guesswork?

Hmmmmm....Statistics

The data show that at 25 degrees C, a typical all-season tyre wears 10% faster than a typical summer tyre. But the tyre test data also show that the Vector 4Seasons is not typical, it's an exceptionally long-wearing all-season tyre. That is borne out by my experience of running two cars on 4Seasons, two cars that are swopped between winter and summer tyres, and one car on summer tyres all the year round. All tread depths are measured at least twice a year. In my experience the 4Seasons outlasts many summer tyres. The suggestion that it 'will just wear away' in summer is quite wrong, and that word 'will' gives it away: you are giving us guesswork, saloon-bar 'wisdom', but not facts or experience.

Your right experience counts for everything but the charateristics of your driving, where you live ect ect is equally important. Anyway, I did not realise that all seasons were generally that rubbish. Is 25 Degrees the tyre temperature, air temperature or the temperature of the road that your driving on. Either way its a bit of a disaster. Regardless of how great they are, most all Seasons (by the nature of their design) will wear down faster than most summer tyre in hot weather. Roads get very very hot in the sun. We have all driven down roads that have been caked in 30 degree heat, and felt the tred being ripped from the tyre. All seasons certainly they maybe, but they are not 'go everywhere' tyres. I would certainly not drive to the south of France in summer with them on.

You are 'sure that statistics will show...', but you don't actually bother to look at the statistics. Hence you are surely wrong.

This is a UK site, so let us take somewhere about half-way down (or up) the country. Let it be 50 feet above sea level. Let us look at its average daytime temperature for the winter months. Figures from the Met Office in degrees C:

November: 5.4

December: 2.9

January: 2.8

February: 3.1

March: 4.9

These statistics are great, I am sure they have beed adjusted meticulously to accomodate the extreme fluctuations of very cold and very hot weather that we tend to have in the winter these days and that they paint a very true picture of reality. On that basis I am going to make all my purchasing and life making decisions based on this data. What clothes/shoes to buy, when to order the wood, programme the central heating and now of course, I know for sure that I need winter tyres........Or do I base my decision on my own experience of the area in which I live ? Its a tough one.

Are you still "sure"? Do you rely on this guesswork approach when you make your living, or do you just save it up for online forums?

I stick to logic, instinct and my own personal (and others) experience. I will not let some staistician tell me how to run my life.

PS. Sorry about the mess Ive made of replying to your tread.

Edited 2 February, 2013 by MCAMRA

[BobbyG79]

Please tell me that "replying to your tread" was an intended pun!

[rockhopper]

Down in South London I have my winter tyres on from end October to April. I have covered about 18,000 miles in them and they are now down to 6mm from 8mm. To me that seems a very acceptable rate of wear. I've not checked the summers yet but I think they are in the region of 6-7mm as well.

As the present rate I will need to buy some new tyres at around 4 years old and 60-70,000 miles which is very good for 2 sets of tyres, bearing in mind the winters will have about 4mm of tread and the summers about the same. I tend to replace the summer tyres at about 3-4mm as they, in my experience, loos effectiveness in wet weather with less and the 1.6mm limit is a joke in wet weather.

If I only had one set of tyres I would run winters all year round. You do have to make sure the tyres pressures are right on winter tyres when the temperature rises as the handling is not the same at 20/25 degrees as it is on summer tyres.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[r999]

I stick to logic, instinct and my own personal (and others) experience. I will not let some staistician tell me how to run my life.

It was you who said the statistics would support your (wrong) guess that average winter daytime temperatures are too high to justify winter tyres.

And now that you have actually been shown some statistics, you say you prefer to ignore statistics.

You "stick to logic", eh? Enough said.

[Llanigraham]

I suppose it all goes back to that good old saying:

"Lies, damned lies, and STATISTICS!"

[Anzio]

And those average temperatures for the months stated seem to be very low, unless the "Country" is Scotland.

This debate could go on forever,it depends where you live,what you drive and how you drive it.

Oh,and I've never driven on a road in summer and heard the tread being ripped off my tyres!!! could it maybe the tar that was melting and making the noise???