Worth replacing chain tensioner in a 59 vRS 2.0 tsi as precaution?

[JB-)]

My 59 plate VRS TSI engine failed today.

What mileage has it done?

[stever750]

My 59 plate VRS TSI engine failed today. I have owned the car for less than 3 weeks. The dealer I bought the car from have been very good so far so fingers crossed there. I was only reading this post last night and was going to get the tensioner replaced/upgraded very soon. With mine it takes the engine failures to 6. I am amazed that skoda have not said something about this potentially expensive issue. I will keep you updated on how it goes and also what will need replacing.

I was involved 3-4 years ago in a "silent recall" with a part we suplied to a major OEM. The original claim was £2 million, and represented a field failure rate of around 20%. The car in question at the time was selling at around 50k units a year, with a list price starting from £35k.

I'm guessing that this particular problem for VAG is no more than 1%FF in which case it's a small blip. The cost of any kind of recall would be much more expensive to administer, without factoring in the real news. An owners forum represents a tiny minority of owners, and I would guess that a disproportionate number of "victims" join forums to seek help and advice.

[a_Duncan]

For what is worth, the tensioner was replaced on my car when it went in for a service. The dealer said that it was mod on certain engine numbers only and mine was one of these and it was changing. Skoda UK is obviously aware of these issues with the tensioner however it may be on, as I said, certain TSI engines. May be worth checking with the dealer to see if your engine number is on the list, they wont tell you unless you ask or its serviced by them I suppose so they can claim the costs back from Skoda UK.

Edited 15 February, 2013 by a_Duncan

[liquid ideas]

If the dealer doesn't even know of an issue would they still be able to check?

[JD52]

The dealers should know of this issue as there is a technical bulletin that describes the fault and the resultant damage.

Basically, the tensioner backs of overnight causing a loose chain on startup next morning. The fault is easily noticed as there is a distinct rattle until the tensioner is pressurised after a couple of seconds. The failure occurs when the chain jumps - result? pisons meet valves. The new tensioners apparently have a redesigned ratchet mechanism to stop the tensioner backing off.

I recently have had the failure and the engine was replaced under warranty - all 8 inlet valves were bent!

[liquid ideas]

Is there any way to get a hold of the technical bulletin to show them as when i spoke to him yesterday he had never heard of it. He is a sound guy so I don't think he would not tell me if he knew of a problem.

[JD52]

I found it by accident in my copy of the ELSA manual - I'll have a look for it tonight.

[Gazman]

Would be good to see the engine numbers affected so as people could check it out...

[PC1212]

The dealers should know of this issue as there is a technical bulletin that describes the fault and the resultant damage.

Basically, the tensioner backs of overnight causing a loose chain on startup next morning. The fault is easily noticed as there is a distinct rattle until the tensioner is pressurised after a couple of seconds. The failure occurs when the chain jumps - result? pisons meet valves. The new tensioners apparently have a redesigned ratchet mechanism to stop the tensioner backing off.

I recently have had the failure and the engine was replaced under warranty - all 8 inlet valves were bent!

Hi there

What dealer was the work carried out at as my local dealer has no knowledge of this issue?

[JD52]

The replacement engine was fitted by Lookers in Stockport - but I'm not sure that they knew as much as they should about the tensioner issue. At the time I was discussing this with them, the only bulletin I had any idea about was one that I had found on a USA VW Golf forum. I had no SKODA info on bulletins.

As there is no recall, it may be that the dealers don't really bother with technical bulletins until they actually need to or when it's brought up by customers.

[brown_d9]

The Skoda bulletin details the diagnostic process they need to follow when a car comes in as a non start with no compression.....

[PC1212]

As I thought... I just spoke to local Skoda dealer......and as per usual no idea what I was on about,

I have shelled out £350 for warranty peace of mind rather than have to face a dead car

shame really as I was drawn to the TSI for the cam chain, as I have had a timing belt snap!

Oh well at least I did not pay too much for her in the first instance!

[brown_d9]

The bulletin only covers the 2.0 TSI engines, and i have never heard of the 1.8 failing, so hopefully you should be fine

[blackspaven]

The bulletin only covers the 2.0 TSI engines, and i have never heard of the 1.8 failing, so hopefully you should be fine

If that's true, perhaps it's some sort of wierd abnormal tolerance with torque or summat which is only present on that slightly more powerful 2.0l block.

[JD52]

Below is an extract from the ELSA electronic documentation. There is a lot more for this fault, but at least the issue number is on there:- 2024485/5.

This should give the technicians an idea where to look....

Technical product information Transaction No.: 2024485/5

Damage of timing chain tensioner Release date: 27-Jun-2011

Customer statement / workshop findings

Engine cannot be started, the Check warning lamp is on.

In the engine CU, the following fault is stored:

• 00022 P0016 CMP Sensor -G40 Engine Speed (RPM) Sensor -G28 Incorrect allocation;

• 00808 P0328 Knock Sensor 1-G61 Circuit High.

Technical background

Because of the defective function of the timing chain tensioner, the timing chain may get too loose during the start causing a valve timing change. This may result in a contact of valves with pistons.

Production change

Reinforced timing chain tensioner – new part 06H 109 467 T.

It was introduced to series production in CW 20, 2010.

Measure

Check, repair:

1. VAS check, Guided Fault Search.

2. Remove the lower cover of the timing chain (see Elsa); check the timing chain tensioner function by pressing on the tensioning rail of the timing chain (Fig.1) against the tensioner. If the piston is inserted into the tensioner’s body (see Fig.2), the ratchet of the tensioner’s piston or the tensioner’s latch has been damaged. If you do not find a damaged timing chain tensioner even after a repeated check (see Fig.3), continue with point No. 6.

3. If a damaged timing chain tensioner was found, continue with examining pistons and valves (removing cylinder head or using of endoscope).

4. If pistons and valves are not damaged, replace the timing chain tensioner with the part 06H 109 467 T and carry out a new setting of the timing gear.

5. If pistons and valves are damaged, replace the engine.

6. Prior to a new timing chain setting, check the possible seizing of the camshafts. Repair by replacing the damaged parts.

7. If only the timing chain setting is shifted without the above parts being damaged, the fault was caused by exceeding the maximum engine revolutions (see the printout of the fault memory of the engine CU). In this case, a warranty repair is not possible.

[JB-)]

Production change

Reinforced timing chain tensioner – new part 06H 109 467 T.

It was introduced to series production in CW 20, 2010.

So this means that modified tensioners were first fitted to cars built in week 20 in 2010???

There have been failures on later engines and we know they've modified the tensioner again since. I think the latest part number is 06K 109 467K.

[rob_e]

Thanks Bubbles, that's great info!

Production change

Reinforced timing chain tensioner – new part 06H 109 467 T.

It was introduced to series production in CW 20, 2010.

So I'm reading that right any engine built after week 20 2010 should already have the revised part?

[Gti Jazz Blue]

No IMHO that means that any engine built after that date will have the second version of the tensioner there has since been a 3rd version.

[stever750]

So this means that modified tensioners were first fitted to cars built in week 20 in 2010???

There have been failures on later engines and we know they've modified the tensioner again since. I think the latest part number is 06K 109 467K.

Be careful - an engine build date code is different from the date someone buys the car....

FWIW I'm not going to treat my still as new at 3k miles TSI with any special consideration. It will get regular oil changes, with the right oil, and get hammered in between. "Make reasonable progress" means full boost pressure, right?

[m0bov]

Anyone approached their yet and asked for the modification yet? I might drop them a note.

[blackspaven]

My dealer said it would be chargeable as it's not a recall.

[ednmra]

Is there any known connection between this fault and driving styles (e.g. frequently taking the engine to high revs?)

[neil_f]

Is there any known connection between this fault and driving styles (e.g. frequently taking the engine to high revs?)

Don't think it matters how you drive it. My mate is an audi tech and has had a couple audis with this failure and not just the 2.0 engine. Says it is very rare and given the amount of tsi engine cars they have sold from the dealership it is not a common issue .

[liquid ideas]

Despite all of our concerns when looking at the problem in context of the numbers of failed components in relation to the number of engines on the road it would appear to be minor. This is off no benefit when your engine is the one in however many 1000's that fails and your left with a huge bill but it appears there is not much we can do. If Skoda would at least offer a discounted fitting cost or something for the updated part as a goodwill gesture especially to those of us who are out of the factory 3yr warranty but they don't appear to even acknowledge this as an issue despite VAG technical bulletins etc recognising the design flaw.

[rob_e]

Despite all of our concerns when looking at the problem in context of the numbers of failed components in relation to the number of engines on the road it would appear to be minor. This is off no benefit when your engine is the one in however many 1000's that fails and your left with a huge bill but it appears there is not much we can do. If Skoda would at least offer a discounted fitting cost or something for the updated part as a goodwill gesture especially to those of us who are out of the factory 3yr warranty but they don't appear to even acknowledge this as an issue despite VAG technical bulletins etc recognising the design flaw.

Why not approach one of the specialists for a labour cost to fit he revised part/HS Tuning kit on p1?