Can somebody confirm the 8am lights out time??

I don't know if I'm getting the right info...

I use formula1.com, converts it to local and our time.

Apart from the last few laps the main talking point was how dire the pitstops were for McLaren but mainly Force India with Di Resta retiring.

The whole team orders arguing is an interesting one and quite complex. With Mercedes Rosberg wanted to pass Lewis who was trying to save fuel. Brawn made them hold station. On the podium Hamilton apologised and said Rosberg should be there instead. Huge respect for that and Rosberg took it on the chin well. Afterwards Brawn said if the situation had been reversed it would have been the same. There could be team orders but the priority is to get the cars home safe and this is understandable.

Red Bull however is different. Webber is leading and told to back off a bit to, like Mercedes make sure the car gets home. Multi 21 much be Red Bull code for it. But Vettel was having none of it. Earlier on he expecting Webber to simply give way to him despite at the time not being faster. Vettel disobeyed team orders and passed Webber. Webber would have been a sitting duck with engine turned down and easing off. In his interview on the podium and with Sky he was really holding back his emotions. He said he's going to do some surfing and was thinking of lots to things in the last few laps. Is this the end for him? Has he had enough of Red Bull? We know Helmut Marko favours Vettel.

But that is the difference between the two. Sure, there's a ruthlessness that Vettel has shown like Senna, Schumacher, etc but when your team mate has been told by team to ease off and you mug him for the win it stinks a bit. But why didn't the team tell Webber that Vettel was ignoring orders and to warn him? I'm so ****ed off about it it's unreal but I am holding back. Just hope Mark doesn't do something rash like announce his retirement

But that is the difference between the two. Sure, there's a ruthlessness that Vettel has shown like Senna, Schumacher, etc but when your team mate has been told by team to ease off and you mug him for the win it stinks a bit. But why didn't the team tell Webber that Vettel was ignoring orders and to warn him? I'm so ****ed off about it it's unreal but I am holding back. Just hope Mark doesn't do something rash like announce his retirement

Hopefully, if there's a next time, he'll take him out............maybe that's the only action which will make the 'team' sit up and take notice

Hopefully, if there's a next time, he'll take him out............maybe that's the only action which will make the 'team' sit up and take notice

I do agree with that but as we know vettels their number one and if mark did that on purpose I'm sure they would rip his contracts up. While I do feel sorry for mark I think he has to use it as motivation and stop sulking and go out and beat vettel in qually and a race and let the talking happen on the track. A sorry state when stuff like this happens and rather detracts from the racing. As there is none when told to follow each other. Respect to nico tho as he took it well and did as told. It's still early doors this season and plenty to look forward to I'm sure!

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Webber is a stronger man than me. The urge to nudge Vettel off the podium would have been too great. I'm amazed he didn't lamp him so to keep relatively composed says a lot. Drivers of the day are Webber just for that and Bianchi for getting a Marussia to 13th.

I do agree with that but as we know vettels their number one and if mark did that on purpose I'm sure they would rip his contracts up. While I do feel sorry for mark I think he has to use it as motivation and stop sulking and go out and beat vettel in qually and a race and let the talking happen on the track. A sorry state when stuff like this happens and rather detracts from the racing. As there is none when told to follow each other. Respect to nico tho as he took it well and did as told. It's still early doors this season and plenty to look forward to I'm sure!

Rosberg played ball, Vettel is a law unto himself

Bearing in mind they can change all sorts of things in the car from the pit lane, I'm surprised they didn't turn the boost down on Vettel's car too, unless they chose not to of course

Christian Horner likes to come over all prim and proper, then goes on to say the main thing was that the team got maximum points - they'd have done that whichever order they finished in, so that argument is very, very shallow - he needs to come off the fence and tell the drivers who is in charge

Horner is a slimy git too. He always manages to dig himself out of a hole. If Webber was to leave I don't think there's anywhere he could go. Massa has come good lately so Ferrari's out.

Vettel and red bull stuffed webber big time, he was right to be royaly p!$$ed as for hammi and Rossi fuel was an issue ? Yeah right looks as if rosberg a second fiddle, Hamilton looked unhappy about the decision but he will also are the points willingly, webber a possible jump to Ferrari next year me thinks, alonso and him as good mates so massa out, so the saga continues , vettel needs a right seeing to and webber is the oneto do it ! Kick the sh17 out of him marky

Can only agree with all the posts regarding Webber and red bull. I rate Webber as a great driver, just a shame he always gets shafted. I think I'd have gone bezerk had I have been him after the race but he kept it together rather well.

Once thing I heard Brundle saying, last week Vettel was booed on the podium, if he starts throwing his weight around and making demands that people move over for him then he will find himself very unpopular very quickly. Of course the booing could have been because he was down under and the fans feel the team are shafting Webber, but it could be a sign of the times. Then there is also the fact that he is so arrogant he couldnt give a **** if people hate him. Either way, I am praying he doesnt win anything for the rest of his career, I would dearly love for Mark to take the title now. Slim chance I know but still.

Oh and the Merc fuel saving had been happening all race, they thought the first stint would have been longer on inters hence the under fuelling. No funny business from what I saw.

Totally agree Martyn, nothing much else to add.

Although Vettel is in the same group as Senna, Schumacher et al due to results, I simply don't put him in the same 'class' as them!!

Totally agree Martyn, nothing much else to add.

Although Vettel is in the same group as Senna, Schumacher et al due to results, I simply don't put him in the same 'class' as them!!

It's fine neither do I. I don't rate him at all despite the 3 Championships. There's just something missing. I know the majority of championships are won in the best car and in Vettel's case it has been for all 3. Imagine Alonso or Hamilton in that car and how dominant it would really be.

Totally agree Martyn, nothing much else to add.

Although Vettel is in the same group as Senna, Schumacher et al due to results, I simply don't put him in the same 'class' as them!!

Would agree with that, because he goes about everything in such a childlike and slimey manner. If he wants to play the win at all costs game, then he should own up to it, rather than feign he 'misunderstood' the order.

I only hope it gets to the last race and Vettel needs Webber to stay behind him so Vettel can win his 4th World Title, only he's done too many laps on his tyres and they won't last to the end if he has to push.

Webber decides WTF, I remember Malaysia, and stuffs it down the inside in to turn one - Vettel screams at Christian and demands Webber pulls over, but Webber is heard saying that he thinks he's lost radio contact.

Webber wins, Vettel second, but Alonsos third is enough to take the title.

Webber moves to replace the departing Massa at Ferrari for 2014.

Happy times :sun:

^ probably. Vet tel was being a bit of a tool today, and when interviewed by the Beeb and Sky, had no acceptable excuse IMO. Maldonado had an OK day too with an early bath, for a change.

As Matt said the fans will remember this and is almost Schumacheresque, history repeating, etc. I even predicted a few years ago that Red Bull could be another Benneton. Who knows in a few years when Newey has gone off to design boats and Vettel has worked his way into Ferrari (in a very long time, if at all) we may see someone like Toyota or BMW returning and buying them like Renault did with Benneton.

I am not a Vettel fan, but he is consistently faster than Webber.

Today was really entertaining, for all kinds of reasons.

At least Vettel's conduct dispelled the old mythical German stereotype of "I was only obeying orders".!

I am not a Vettel fan, but he is consistently faster than Webber.

All well and good, but today he wasnt was he? Else instead of bitching to the team that Webber was too slow he would have just overtook him. Instead he waited like a coward till they had dropped down to cruising speed to bring the cars home and look after the tyres & stole the lead. Not a fair way to race whatever way you look at it.

The whole situation is caused by the tyres which is just crap imo, as Webber said, they are driving at 8/10 of what the cars are capable of because of the tyres, so they aren't fit for the purpose really.

if what Vettel did was so bad in the team's eyes, why were they not screaming at him to give the position back.

figuratively speaking, Webber's still got a black eye/ no sweeties but because Vettel apologised, the team say it's resolved

Have they said its resolved? Team photos cancelled, Webber not accepting the apology, saying he has some "thinking to do", doesnt sound very resolved to me tbh

All well and good, but today he wasnt was he? Else instead of bitching to the team that Webber was too slow he would have just overtook him. Instead he waited like a coward till they had dropped down to cruising speed to bring the cars home and look after the tyres & stole the lead. Not a fair way to race whatever way you look at it.

The whole situation is caused by the tyres which is just crap imo, as Webber said, they are driving at 8/10 of what the cars are capable of because of the tyres, so they aren't fit for the purpose really.

Vettel is faster. Just look at the results over the last three years. You can't deny the obvious. Having said that, I do agree with your sentiments.

Vettel is faster. Just look at the results over the last three years. You can't deny the obvious. Having said that, I do agree with your sentiments.

They weren't racing the last three years today though...

Today, he was consistently quicker than Vettel

They weren't racing the last three years today though...

Today, he was consistently quicker than Vettel

Exactly. You are only as fast as you are at that point in time.

Vettel simply doesn't care and all his apologies and looking seemingly "mortified" is as much of a show as playing a "nice guy" to the media. Mark has a tough nut to crack with this one or he's risking to become vindictive... He NEEDS to do the talking on the track as mentioned earlier in the thread. Then he can acquire a true legend status. If he was to win the DWC this year , and he has the form and car do achieve it, then... wow! Probably will not happen as Dr Marko will wave the chequebook and stomp his feet meaningfully. It was quite obvious from his Beeb post race interview.

What is quite interesting is the dynamics in Merc and Nico's radio message delivered in an ominous tone of voice "Remember this one!".

Also somebody mentioned that team could have "turned the boost down".

Fortunately they couldn't. It is a one way street with car sending data to the pits but pits only able to send voice radio back. Otherwise we would have scalextric races .

Can't wait for China!

Also somebody mentioned that team could have "turned the boost down".

Fortunately they couldn't. It is a one way street with car sending data to the pits but pits only able to send voice radio back. Otherwise we would have scalextric races .

Is that so?

If so I don't mind admitting that I'm wrong, as I don't profess to know everything :(