Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons

[MCAMRA]

r999

I think what you have written is great...and it certainly puts a more educated perspective to the matter.

I still struggle to understand how (after watching so much F1) how a given set of Tyres can work well for all cars. For example, these 'pro reviewers' may test and rate a set of given Tyres highly and give them 5 stars, but that may only be relevant to the car they are testing them with. Putting those same tyres on a Yeti, may not have the same effect....it may make the Yeti worse to drive. Conversely, a poor set of Tyres on their test car may in fact work well on a Yeti. No two cars are the same. This is what I have trouble with.

Anyway, may front tyres are coming up for renewal and I have no Idea what to do. Do I buy the same tyres, or a different set on the front but keep the existing tyres on the back. Renewal all four tyres. Its a minefield !

[Huskoda]

If they are working well for you, get the same ones. I would only think its worth trying others if the ones you have don't do what you need them to.

[Herschel]

r999

I think what you have written is great...and it certainly puts a more educated perspective to the matter.

I still struggle to understand how (after watching so much F1) how a given set of Tyres can work well for all cars. For example, these 'pro reviewers' may test and rate a set of given Tyres highly and give them 5 stars, but that may only be relevant to the car they are testing them with. Putting those same tyres on a Yeti, may not have the same effect....it may make the Yeti worse to drive. Conversely, a poor set of Tyres on their test car may in fact work well on a Yeti. No two cars are the same. This is what I have trouble with.

I agree completely.

I used to own a BMW 330d - was recommended Vredestein Sessanta's so got them fitted - just didn't work at all, steering felt horrible and as if I'd slide off the road...........ditched them within 1 day for Falken 452s.

Yet my BMW 325i ran Sessanta's brilliantly.

I've had Kumho's on my vRS and they were absolutely horrendous in the wet, anything more than a few drops and it was as if they were on ice; 452s totally fine (and the Conti originals); yet I know others who have had Kumho's and love them, and in the dry they were brilliant - the ratings suggest they're ok in the wet too, but not what I found.

[r999]

I still struggle to understand how (after watching so much F1) how a given set of Tyres can work well for all cars.

Well, all eleven F1 teams are on the same tyres and they work well enough (though of course some of the teams may not be getting the best from them).

these 'pro reviewers' may test and rate a set of given Tyres highly and give them 5 stars, but that may only be relevant to the car they are testing them with.

In principle, yes, but in practice I don't worry too much about it. Some cars are tyre-sensitive (meaning that a tyre known to be good on other cars is not good on one particular car), but that comes to be known and discussed, and I'm not aware of any claims that it affects the Yeti. When a car is tyre-sensitive you sometimes find the manufacturer recommending a particular make of tyre, or perhaps factory-fitting a single make. I believe there is no such recommendation from Skoda for the Yeti and they have sent them out on tyres from at least 4 manufacturers to my knowledge: Continental, Goodyear, Dunlop, Pirelli. If you decided to stick to those 4 as choices for replacement tyres, I think you can do better than the Dunlop SP Sport and the Pirelli P Zero Rosso which are satisfactory but not impressive.

As Herschel says, some BMWs are tyre-sensitive, but that's why BMW issues its dealers with a list of approved tyres for every BMW model, and the last time I looked, Vredesteins and Kumhos were not on it for any 3-series model.

Rather than worrying about a good-performing tyre not suiting the Yeti, I'd be more concerned with the fact that the same make and model of tyre can perform differently in different sizes. For example, the wider sizes will often require a different tread pattern from the narrower sizes. This means that even if a tyre wins every test in a particular size, one can't assume it will be equally good in a different size.

If I were replacing 225/50 R17 summer tyres now, I'd be considering the Continental ContiSportContact 5. As for the Goodyear Eagle F1, it would have to be the older F1 GS D3 as the F1 Asymmetric 2 is not yet available in that size, and the older tyre is looking a bit dated though is still better than many. But these are premium tyres - not the most expensive, just the best performers - and you may prefer to look at at a different market segment.

And for the die-hards who think mediocre tyres are good enough and it's only boy-racers who want better, I'll just add that when I talk about a best-performing tyre, I am not thinking only of its limits of grip. Wear rate, ride comfort, noise, and price are all factors I pay attention to.

Anyway, may front tyres are coming up for renewal and I have no Idea what to do. Do I buy the same tyres, or a different set on the front but keep the existing tyres on the back. Renewal all four tyres.

The usual advice, as you probably know, is to put the new tyres on the back if you buy only two. This is because most drivers find oversteer more intimidating than understeer. It's advice I often ignore, because half-worn front tyres aquaplaning are more of a hazard for me than a wayward back end, which I have had 45 years' practice at controlling, but if you are not happy with oversteer, go with the standard advice.

Finally, what I said above about the Yeti probably not being very tyre-sensitive was said on the assumption that all four tyres are the same. On any car if you put different makes on front and back, you run some risk of making the handling less predictable. But it's probably not worth throwing away two good tyres just in case of that. If you're unlucky and it happens, you can first swop the tyres front to back, and if that still doesn't work, shell out to replace the other pair.

[Llanigraham]

I've had Kumho's on my vRS and they were absolutely horrendous in the wet, anything more than a few drops and it was as if they were on ice; 452s totally fine (and the Conti originals); yet I know others who have had Kumho's and love them, and in the dry they were brilliant - the ratings suggest they're ok in the wet too, but not what I found.

I've been running Kumho KU39's on the Yeti for 2 years and have found them brilliant. Lots of wet weather grip, excellent off-road, good wear rates and not noisy. I also used their All terrain tyres on my Freelanders for 6 years and found no problems with them.

So as you say, different cars, different owners, different results.

[r999]

I've been running Kumho KU39's on the Yeti for 2 years and have found them brilliant. Lots of wet weather grip, excellent off-road, good wear rates and not noisy. I also used their All terrain tyres on my Freelanders for 6 years and found no problems with them.

So as you say, different cars, different owners, different results.

Fair enough, but one can go too far in attributing pleasing results to some mysterious and unpredictable combination of car, driver, and tyre. Everything you mention is a known, objectively measured characteristic of the Kumho KU39. The tests show that it is good, but short of the best, in dry braking, dry handling, wet braking, wet handing, fuel economy, and wear rates. On noise it is somewhat weaker, when measured in dB against 17 of its peers, but by no means the worst. The real problem with the KU39 is that other tyres costing no more do it all significantly better, so it's a decent all-rounder that falls down in value for money - an ironic result in view of Kumho's sales pitch as a good-value brand.

It came 14th out of 17 in the latest test ("April" 2013).

Herschel didn't say which Kumho model he found poor in the wet, so the fact that the KU39 is pretty good in the wet (both in the tests and in your experience) does not in any way contradict what he said, nor does it mean that tyre performance is somehow 'subjective' or unpredictable.

[Llanigraham]

It came 14th out of 17 in the latest test ("April" 2013).

Can you point me towards these tests please?

[r999]

Can you point me towards these tests please?

The April 2013 tests are in Which? magazine. Subscription only. They cover 34 tyres in all, half of them in 185/60 R15H and the other half in 225/45 R17W/Y.

[Llanigraham]

Thanks.

However as you have pointed out earlier, different size tyres can react/behave differently, plus what vehicle were they tested on?

I'm happy with my Kumho's and to me they feel to be as good as the Goodyears they replaced. I suspect that "value" is based on the RRP of the tyres, and not their actual price. I get them at a good discount and am happy with the price I pay.

[Anzio]

In my 50 years of motoring I've only ever used the well known makes of tyres. I was going to get some Goodyear all-seasons, but after my half worn OE Dunlops (225/50 R17) took me everywhere I wanted to go in the snow with no problems, I'm going to stick with them. I think a lot of people forget there is a driver involved in all this debate, and each one is different, just like different types of tyre. I can't see how a new set of tyres can be rubbish after a day, they need time to wear in, maybe not realising their full potential for a couple of hundred miles.

[r999]

However as you have pointed out earlier, different size tyres can react/behave differently, plus what vehicle were they tested on?

A different width or diameter or tread pattern might certainly make a difference. But the only difference between the tyre test and the Yeti's size is 45 as opposed to 50 profile. This might affect turn-in response and perhaps ride comfort a bit, but probably nothing else.

I've tried to explain above why testing on a different vehicle is not a reason to dismiss a tyre test result, unless a car is known to be tyre-sensitive. The tyres in a test are all the same size, load factor, speed rating ,etc, so they all go on a small number of cars of similar weight and performance.

I'm happy with my Kumho's and to me they feel to be as good as the Goodyears they replaced. I suspect that "value" is based on the RRP of the tyres, and not their actual price. I get them at a good discount and am happy with the price I pay.

Nope. That test uses best available street prices. Better to get hold of the test you asked for than to make guesses of that kind, unless you are just clutching at straws of comfort.

[r999]

tyre. I can't see how a new set of tyres can be rubbish after a day, they need time to wear in, maybe not realising their full potential for a couple of hundred miles.

Very true. But it's not just wearing in. After a day the tyre is still saturated with the releasing agent that was used to stop it sticking in the mould. That stuff is slippery, as it is designed to be. Some makers will use more of it than others.

[Anzio]

Ah, then that must be the reason Herschel binned his tyres after a day, nothing to do with the make, just Fairy Liquid out of the mould. Lets hope Health and Safety know about that, banning it could cut down on the reason for a lot of accidents, and people thinking they've bought rubbish tyres.

[Llanigraham]

A different width or diameter or tread pattern might certainly make a difference. But the only difference between the tyre test and the Yeti's size is 45 as opposed to 50 profile. This might affect turn-in response and perhaps ride comfort a bit, but probably nothing else.

SO IT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

I've tried to explain above why testing on a different vehicle is not a reason to dismiss a tyre test result, unless a car is known to be tyre-sensitive. The tyres in a test are all the same size, load factor, speed rating ,etc, so they all go on a small number of cars of similar weight and performance.

I WONDER WHAT CAR THEY USED?

DOES THE FACT THAT MY YETI IS A 4X4 AFFECT HOW A PARTICULAR TYRE RESPONDS, FOR EXAMPLE? I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT THE TWO TYPES OF YETI DO FEEL DIFFERENT

Nope. That test uses best available street prices. Better to get hold of the test you asked for than to make guesses of that kind, unless you are just clutching at straws of comfort.

I'M NOT CLUTCHING AT STRAWS AT ALL, JUST INTERESTED ON HOW IT HAS BEEN DONE, BUT AS I DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO WHICH I SUPPOSE I SHALL HAVE TO STAY IN THE DARK.

AS HAS BEEN SAID BY SEVERAL OTHERS THIS WHOLE TESTING THING DOES APPEAR TO BE VERY "SUBJECTIVE" IN MANY WAYS. THE TESTING I HAVE SEEN DONE HAS INVARAIBLY INVOLVED "ON THE LIMIT" DRIVING AND NOT WHAT I OR JOE PUBLIC GENERALLY DOES.

I'M HAPPY WITH WHAT I'VE GOT AND AS THEY HAVE NEVER CAUSED ME TO FEEL APPREHENSIVE ABOUT THEIR BEHAVIOR IN MANY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS I SHALL CONTINUE TO USE THEM.

[r999]

Ah, then that must be the reason Herschel binned his tyres after a day, nothing to do with the make, just Fairy Liquid out of the mould.

Fairy Liquid, eh. You are joking, of course. If you feel like being serious, though, you might want to learn what is actually used (though some people here would rather stick with what they think they know and what they can guess, and not deal with the rather complex realities of tyres ). Anyway, here is one actual releasing agent's formula. Somewhat more advanced chemistry than Fairy Liquid: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5466742.html

[Llanigraham]

Err, I think my Welsh associate was JOKING!!

[r999]

I'M NOT CLUTCHING AT STRAWS AT ALL

Other people will be the judge of that. I suppose as a last resort you could try to convince us by using even bigger capital letters as you sometimes do when you can't think of anything else.

Err, I think my Welsh associate was JOKING!!

As I said in my second sentence commenting on his post. But I am well used to you not reading, or not paying attention to, what is written here, and then saying things I have already said as if you had just discovered them for yourself.

[Llanigraham]

Other people will be the judge of that. I suppose as a last resort you could try to convince us by using even bigger capital letters as you sometimes do when you can't think of anything else.

As I said in my second sentence commenting on his post. But I am well used to you not reading, or not paying attention to, what is written here, and then saying things I have already said as if you had just discovered them for yourself.

I used purple capital letters so that it showed up as a reply to your posting. Nothing more than that. It is quite a common method of adding a reply on many forums that I use so that it shows up better. I do not understand why you have to take such a personal affront to it? If you find it so objectionable then please report it to the Mods.

As you feel I have nothing to add to this conversation and that my opinion counts for nothing I shall not bother to partake any further.

A polite farewell.

[shrub]

My Father ran an A class Mercedes on Kumhos (OE from factory) and they were great; quiet, plenty of grip. His latest A class (same tyre size etc) is fitted with Pirellis and noticeably noisier to my ears. On that basis I recommended Kumhos to a friend who was replacing the Bridgestones on his Kia Cee'd and he has been perfectly happy with them since.

[Anzio]

You don't have to try and baffle us with science. I worked the greater part of my life refining crude oifor one of the worlds biggest oil companies. In my younger days in an engineering workshop, as well as my Military service with the Royal Engineers. You don't have to come across as if we are peasants,(unless you are a wind up merchant). You already admitted in one post that you know nothing about tyre design, I'm begining to wonder if you are one of growing bunch of "Google" experts, reading and then making it sound like you know. I hope not, as little bits of your comments sounded feasable.

[JCP]

I'm afraid I'm out too. I am beginning to feel that whatever knowledge r999 may have his tone is one I hated at school and don't feel I want to submit to as a grown up.

[Yety]

I only asked a simple and innocuous question in post no1, and my reply in post no 10 was very restrained and hopefully diplomatic.

I too don't like being treated like an idiot. I'm sure you are right, just that your views don't come over well on a forum - I'm sure that in a more social, face to face environment we'd all have a lively discussion.

[r999]

You already admitted in one post that you know nothing about tyre design

No, I said (volunteered, not 'admitted') that I am not a tyre designer. That is not the same as knowing nothing. I am happy for you to take issue with what I say, but I will challenge you and others here when you take up something you think I said because you misquoted or didn't bother reading carefully. I have spent time in a tyre factory, time with tyre makers, and a lot of time with people in the tyre trade, and asked them all questions till they got fed up. I have been reading about tyres since becoming interested in them in 1967. That is the source of what I know about tyres. It is far less than a tyre designer knows, but rather more than nothing.

Some of you mention the tone of the discussion. As you have raised the matter, you might like to reflect on other aspects of the tone on this board that I find objectionable and never get involved in. I tolerate the online equivalent of the pub bore, people who speak because they want to speak, not because they have anything useful to say: one gets plenty of practice at putting up with that in this forum. I can also tolerate, or at least ignore, all the tedious homosocial joshing, massaging of male friends, and mutual backslapping that make this forum such a repulsive place to women. My patience and good manners run out, however, when I am attacked by people who speak from a position of ignorance and then try to defend their wrong position.

Edited 28 March, 2013 by r999

[Anzio]

Then tell us more Madam. It's your problem that you came across as the only one who knows anything about tyres and the rest of us are wrong. I see no one speaking from a position of ignorance, or of attacking you, if it's such a deplorable place why whinge about it, instead of leaving. Most of us genuinely try to help each other,sometimes getting a bit heated, but usually overcoming any hic-ups, as sensible people tend to do. None of us are experts on everything, but I have learned lots of things on this forum from people who know things they have found from experience. I will always tell someone if I think they are wrong, or an internet only expert, eg. Googling and then posting.

This topic was about someone not understanding something, and if you look at your first two replies you make it sound as if you were talking to a child.

Whether you are male or female, please take another look at how you put your views across, you will find us most helpful in most instances, but not tolerant of being treated as inferior beings.

[r999]

you will find us most helpful in most instances

You speak as if (1) you owned this place (2) I was posting here as a newcomer and (3) you are enfranchised to speak for everyone except me. In other words, you patronise. Please take another look at how you put your views across. Now where did I read that?

Edited 28 March, 2013 by r999