DSG judder 3 months outside of warranty

[Tom Tallon]

Commiserations to all of you who may be affected by a problem here.

My experience is of my Octavia 1.8 tsi with 7 speed dsg bought new August 2012.

My problems led to full replacement of control unit and gearbox in March 2013 after 8 months use.

No judders in any gear but the display flashed up a spanner icon where the gear select number is ie not D6 or D7 etc but spanner.

Driving problem was rather hairy in that twice the control unit simply opted out and refused to select a gear when the spanner flashed so I coasted to a halt in the main road (luckily not a motorway).

Diagnosis by Skoda Assist was loss of pressure in the gearbox via fault codes. Furthermore he found gearbox oil on the drip tray below the engine and this contained metal filings!

None of this helps anyone here as it was a rather unusual fault but you might cast an eye on the drip tray with your fingers just to see if there's a leak since it did not materialise on the garage floor.

My garage are adamant that they have very few DSG problems of any consequence but this is not borne out by experience here and abroad. I did think this was limited to 7 speed DSG but colleagues here are also putting up the 6 speed box as a problem.

Sorry can't help further but just one tip with new cars. Get Skoda Assist to come out if you think the car is not 100% safe to drive. Apparently the dealer has to diagnose these problems in 48 hours and you will get a replacement vehicle immediately for as long as the dealer has the car - at least I did.

Another thought - have VW group redesigned the 7 speed gearbox for the MK3 Octavia (and indeed A3, Golf etc) as a result of their experience - surely there must be continuous fault analysis and mechanical improvements as a result of user reported problems ( particularly the revolt in India and China leading to a long warranty there on the DSG box).

[marcusthehat]

I WILL eventually get to the bottom of this issue.

I cannot believe Skoda technical are as unknowing as I am told they are.

I would love to speak directly to a Skoda technician on the R & D side.

However the public face of any company is staffed by "people" persons, who are generally completely technically uninterested.

I see my problem as a function of the "alogrithym" existing to prevent abuse of the dry clutch by excessive revving and slipping.

Except in our case, perhaps due to an unfortunate "perfect storm" of manufacturing tolerences, this kicks in far too soon, perhaps a faulty sensor, temperature or otherwise, perhaps an overriding safety function acting abnormally.

Anyway for whatever reason after a stone cold start, inside the first few seconds/minutes at the most, the transmission briefly selects a "false neutral" while at the same time holding revs back to tickover, rather than the throttle pentiometer demanded 2000-2500.

i should say the throttle depression taking place gently and incrementally, in an attempt to get the car to ease forward against the slope.

Regards

Marcus

[GreyTSI]

Skoda UK/Retailer are not prepared to change the offer made but did say that following the repair I can go back to them for help towards the next service cost.

I did point out that I would not want to keep the car knowing it will fail in the future and will be forced to sell the car before then.

They did say these technical issues do occur with modern cars and so the full cost cannot be met as there is an element of wear and tear involved.

This really is not good enough forcing us into accepting there faulty goods and charging us for their temporary repair.

[Rob_Quads]

You should speak to watchdog - Also, go and pretend to buy a new one - are they informing customers that its expected if they buy such as car?

[m0bov]

I'd pay the extra £400, then write on recipt "paid under protest". Then file a Small Claims for the £400.

[Stuart_J]

I'd pay the extra £400, then write on recipt "paid under protest". Then file a Small Claims for the £400.

I was just about to post exactly the same

Car fixed for £400 & you have it sorted, then small claims court or main court, I cant see them fighting in a main court for £400. Also be advised your contract is with the dealer you bought the car from, so you have to sue them. You have no way of suing Skoda, been there & got the tee shirt. If the dealer fights it he will come with a legal team paid for by Skoda

Another alternative is pay the 400 & ask for a years extended warranty on the car in return

[Rob_Quads]

No need for a main court. As its less than £5000 you can just go through the small claims court. Its a fairly simple process.

If they are saying that a gearbox is now a wear & tear items on a car then I would go the not fit for purpose route as its expected the gearbox typically should last a long time 6 years+ if not much longer.

I would not be surprised if you won by default as its going to cost the dealer more than £400 to get the solicitor to turn up for the court case

If they are allowed to say a major component is now a wear and tear it gives them open house to throw out all claims in thery saying that its now wear and tear item.

[GreyTSI]

Thanks for all your advice.

[Sound Chaser]

I am currently having the same issue with my Octavia 1.4 DSG. 17500 miles and just 6 months out of warranty. Even though I brought this juddering between 1st and 2nd gear problem to light before the warranty expired I am also being asked to contribute £400 with Skoda offering 70% parts and 50% labour discount.

 

I also bought the car new part financed and have been down the route of using the 'Supply of Goods Act (Implied Terms) 1973. This is because the purchase contract was with the finance company.

 

The initial response from Skoda finance was a joke where by they tried to tell me that because it was fit for purpose when I drove it off the forecourt that it must have been ok. They also tried to tell me that when the contract is paid and signed over they are no longer responsible for the vehicle. Neither of these statements are true in law.

The 6 years with which we are covered under this consumer act begins from the point that the contract is completed and being fit for purpose at the point of sale does not indicate that the clutch will last a reasonable length of time. Which it clearly hasn't!

 

Despite the fact I have found scores of reports of this exact problem with the DSG on online forums Skoda UK openly dismissed forum users as "Just a bunch of moaners" and they are denying that it is a common problem. In spite of my best efforts I too hit a brick wall with Skoda customer services and could not get to elevate my case beyond the front line.

 

My Octavia is currently in the garage having the K2 clutch pack replaced but I am also concerned that my wife's Fabia DSG will end up the same way after it's warranty runs out in November.

I posted a second letter to Skoda finance and their legal dept after their misrepresentation of the consumer act and have also contacted the Financial Ombudsman but am yet to hear anything.

 

It is frustrating that so much evidence is out there for this fault but VW/Skoda/Audi will not accept it as such. 

[kalpat]

If you do a Google search "DSG gearbox" and look at the Wikipedia entry which is near the top of the list there are some interesting facts. These include the recalls that the VW group are doing all over the world including some as recently as June this year. The fact that they are doing recalls surely strengthens any case that UK customers have.

[giblet]

Problems and recalls of DSG-equipped vehicles[edit]

The 7-speed DQ200 and DQ250 gearboxes sometimes suffer from power-loss (gear disengaging) due to short-circuiting of wires caused by a build-up of sulphur in the transmission oil.^[23]

United States of America[edit]

In August 2009, Volkswagen of America issued two recalls of DSG-equipped vehicles. The first involved 13,500 vehicles,^[24] and was to address unplanned shifts to the neutral gear,^[24] while the second involved similar problems (by then attributed to faulty temperature sensors) and applied to 53,300 vehicles.^[24][25][26] These recalls arose as a result of investigations carried out by the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA),^[27] where owners reported to the NHTSA a loss of power whilst driving.^[24] This investigation preliminary found only 2008 and 2009 model year vehicles as being affected.^[24][27]

China[edit]

Since 2009 there have been widespread concerns from Chinese consumers particularly among the online community, expressed that Volkswagen has failed to respond to complaints about defects in its DSG-equipped vehicles. Typical issues associated with 6-speed DSG include abnormal noise and unable to change gear; while issues associated with 7-speed DSG include abnormal noise, excessive shift shock, abnormal increase in engine RPM, flashing gear indicator on the dashboard as well as unable to shift to even-numbered gears.^[28] In March 2012 China’s quality watchdog the General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine (AQSIQ) has said it has been in contact with Volkswagen (China) and urged the carmaker to probe the issues.^[29][30] In a survey held by Gasgoo.com (China) of the 2,937 industry experts and insiders, 83% respondent believe that the carmaker should consider a full vehicle recall.^[31] In March 2012 Volkswagen Group China has admitted there could be an issue in its seven-speed DSG gearboxes that may affect approximately 500,000 vehicles from its various subsidiaries in China.^[32] A software upgrade has since been offered to the affected vehicles in an attempt to repair the problem.

According to 163.com - one of China's most popular web portals - in March 2012 about a quarter of the complaints about problems found in cars in China's automotive market were against DSG-equipped vehicles manufactured by Volkswagen.^[33] The top five models that dominate those complaints were:

• Volkswagen Magotan - 6%

Volkswagen Bora - 5.3%

Volkswagen Sagitar - 5.3%

Volkswagen Touareg - 4.7%

Volkswagen Golf - 4%

On March 15, 2013 China Central Television aired a program for the World Consumer Rights Day. The program criticized the issue associated with DSG-equipped vehicles manufactured by Volkswagen. on March 17, 2013 Volkswagen Group China announced on its official Weibo that it will voluntarily recall vehicles equipped with DSG boxes.^[34] Some sources have estimated the failure rate of DSG-equipped vehicles sold in China being above 20,000ppm^{[citation needed]}.

Sweden[edit]

VW Sweden stopped selling the Passat EcoFuel DSG as a taxi after many cars had problems with the DSG gearbox. They instead offered the Touran EcoFuel DSG, which is using a different model of the DSG gearbox ^[35]

Australia and New Zealand[edit]

"Volkswagen Australia confirmed on the evening of the 11th of June 2013 that it would conduct a recall across its Skoda,Golf, Jetta, Polo, Passat and Caddy models manufactured between June 2008 and September 2011. The recall will affect 25,928 vehicles within this range." "The recall will target a particular version of DSG, the seven-speed DQ200."^[36] This recall has come about after sustained pressure from owners and the public after the death in 2011 of a young woman driving a 2008 VW Golf stopped suddenly on a major freeway and was hit by a truck from behind and crushing her car which was in a manual variant and not related to the DSG recall.

Shortly after Volkswagen Australia has announced its recall on 11th June 2013, Audi and Skoda have announced they will recall 6,000 and 1,746 vehicles respectively which are equipped with the 7-speed transmission.^[37]

Japan[edit]

The recall has been extended to Japan with 91,000 (VW and Audi using the same DSG) being recalled. ^[38]

Singapore[edit]

Volkswagen Singapore recalled approximately 6100 cars with the 7-speed DSG. ^[39]

Malaysia[edit]

13 days after the Singapore recall, Volkswagen Malaysia also announced a recall for the 7-speed DSG. ^[40]

[flinflon]

In light of all these dsg problems around the world what have VW, Audi, Skoda UK operations got to say? Has there been any adverse comment in Euroland (other than Sweden)? 

[kalpat]

In view of recalls initiated by VAG Group it must strengthen any claims that people have. The only way is of course to test it & present them with the facts & see what their response is.

[Steamfan]

I have input in this saga which is interesting My car has the wet 6 speed DSG. I called the 1st and former keeper asking a few questions about history as I suspected the secondhand none Skoda dealer from whom I bought had simply ticked every box in service book, I was told by the former keeper the car had a gearbox fault repaired under warranty (I think the matrix brain.) when the car was under 3 years old. Here's the interesting bit, I asked a friend of a friend who works for VW to get a history print out and surprisingly nothing was recorded about this gearbox repair on the VW/SKODA database. I passed a comment saying is this deliberate under reporting to hide the amount of DSG faults to which I got a wry none responsive grin.

PS my Octy has performed satisfactorily to-date save a max MPG of 51 and I have just today bought Halfords MAF spray to clean the MASS hopping to squeeze a few more MPG

[yus786]

Is there an update to any of the claims here please?

Having the same issue with my fabia 1.2 tsi dsg7

 

But the bad thing is I'm the 4th owner, only done 30k miles

[ryan-vrs]

Hi all, just thought I'd add my experience on this (I had a VRS but bought an Audi A3 2months ago, hence still have my login active here)

 

My A3 1.4tfsi 7 speed s tronic dry clutch has the 2nd gear shuddering issue, I've researched for a long time loads of forums concerning this aswell as here finding so many identical issues. 

 

Basically, Audi confirmed after dismantling my clutch that the clutch plates were worn, and a new clutch would need to be fitted. I argued how a 3 year old car, with only 39k miles would need a new clutch already. Bearing in mind this is an automatic, not a manual which would be open to abuse by an agressive driver on the clutch. The stronic changes gear as smooth as can be, and shouldn't wear out in a short space of time. The 3 month warranty wouldn't cover it, as frictional material is not covered as per any other warranty as far as I know. Whether it's a manual, or automatic.

 

So I had a few days of dealer/audi/warranty arguing amongst themselves, and only yesterday have I had confirmation that the used car dealer I bought from just 2 months ago, is paying 100% of the labour charge, and the audi dealer is paying 100% of the clutch as a goodwill gesture. The dealer I bought the car from was superb, and confirming from the start I would not be out of pocket, and either the warranty or they would cover all costs. (always worth buying from a big known dealer, and not mickeymouse motors who wouldn't care less)

 

So thankfully I don't have to pay out the ludicrous £2100 Audi wanted! My concern is will it happen again in a similar space of time, the new clutch only has a 1 year warranty, after that of course I won't have the dealers backing as I do now and have to pay out myself. Although it may help to raise with service managers, and tweet Audi UK many times which could have helped with their contribution I don't know ;-)

 

Audi wanted £750 for the clutch, and £1350 for labour as it takes so long to fit this complex stronic technology. Great gearbox, but not sure I'm keeping the car once fixed as it's too high tech and therefore too expensive when things go wrong. After a serious amount of research on lots and lots of forums discussing DSG/stronic, it seems the problem is because the 7 speed is a dry clutch there is nothing there to keep the parts all lubed up and kept in tip top condition. One guy in Australia confirmed that Audi said the reason was due to dust entering the clutchplates, building up and creating hard mounds which lead to things not being smooth as expected, then causing things to get worse. And apparently Audi had designed an updated clutch design which restricts dust entering. Seems like anyone who has a 6 speed wet clutch, has no problems at all because of the oil within keeping things lubricated. I don't know for sure, but seems to be the case. Of course Audi will NEVER confirm to anyone the reasons they think these clutches fail, no matter how much I asked. Which I can understand, for example if one of us was told "oh yes we get that all the time, it's due to xxxx reason", it'll be told to all of us and spread around hugely creating headline attention, claims, and all sorts of things they really wouldn't want. Why should they, when they can get away with charging ludicrous money to repair these things.

 

You can view my points raised on the audi forums here:

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/fao-7-speed-s-tronic-owners.225331/

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/urgent-stronic-clutch-not-covered-by-warranty.226973/

 

If anyone has this issue, I would keep arguing and wanting to know why a clutch would wear out so quickly, mentioning the SaleOfGoodsAct, and how surely the part is not fit for purpose. You will hopefully then get a decent percentage knocked off, if not the whole lot.

Edited 13 September, 2014 by ryan-vrs

[DadWagon]

My update (its a live issue today): Long story short, the issue has been identified by dealer technicians but Skoda Extended Warranty are refusing to pay for it because its a recall / design fault but Skoda UK are refusing to take responsibility for it.

 

I'll be updating here - http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/290823-extended-warranty-recommendations-please/?p=4145624 

[r6ymy]

I had the judder changing from 1st to 2nd on a 7 speed DSG on a 1.4 TSi, lucklily this was confirmed by my dealer a week before the warranty expired, and the clutch pack was replaced under warranty. Mileage at that point was 50,000. The replacement had no issues in 2 years and 36,00 miles since fitment, I have now sold the car.

I thought this was only an issue on the 7speed dry clutch gearboxes, which were on the lower powered petrol models only ( was it a 170bhp limit?).

At the time of replacement there was a delay in obtaining parts, I was told that was due to the number of Audi warranty issues on the same gearbox.

The replacement clutch pack was said to be an improved design, however I've decided on my new car (Audi A3 saloon 1.4 TFSi) to go for a manual gearbox, as I plan to keep this car for five years and have concerns over the long term reliability of the DSG box.