Are modern cars less reliable?

[Aspman]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/festival-of-motoring/10031645/Are-modern-cars-less-reliable.html

I have some sympathy with the point of this. In theory the more complex car is the more points of failure there are and the more likely a failure becomes. Many of the features on a new car start to look like liabilities when you get outside the 'free' warranty period DMF, DPF, Electronic hand brakes etc etc.

I guess that reality id less dramatic and that cars are probably about as reliable as they have ever been but that the average repair cost is going up.

[KenONeill]

First, define "modern".

[RainbowFire]

I think the problems come from having to meet emissions levels etc. If there's a fault that prevents this level from being met, then the car shuts down. In the good old days, the cars didn't think for themselves and so would run "out of spec" without too many problems. Once upon a time I had a Renault 9, there was a fault with the dizzy so when it got damp outside, it got damp inside and the spark went all over the place. (It was a simple fix in the end, just like the Mini's crud guard). Anyway the upshot of this is that there were a couple of times where it was running on 3, sometimes 2, cylinders, in the pouring rain. It got us home though, farting and spitting the last 10 miles or so, but we got there. But, was still quite happy to start the following day when it was all dry. Most modern cars would have put themselves into limp mode, at best, and then demand an expensive trip to the dealer afterwards.

No electronic overloard means far far fewer problems, and mostly you can fix them yourself. Engines were simpler - the fixes were simpler, and you could get the parts in Halfords!

[meta55b]

Me and my boss just did a mini service on his Opel manta gte, the spark plugs were done in about 5 mins max air filter, 30 seconds, oil filter off/on 2 mins. How this car is built is great you can see everything get to everything. And I think there's about 15 fuses total in the car. Getting back to the topic, yes I do think older car are more reliable than modern cars. The only thing's I would like the car to have is power steering and a n/s wing mirror lol.

[RainbowFire]

And I think there's about 15 fuses total in the car.

Morris Marina fusebox: 2 fuses! 1 always live, 1 live on stage 2. Complete with mini bus-bar, so you could connect to either fuse by using a bucket connector. Household style fuses too.

Simples!

[@Lee]

Simple fuses don't help when this **** keeps happening though :(

[slider]

I would say they are definitely not less reliable, despite being much more complex. Maybe I have been lucky but I have not spent a penny on any of my last 4 cars outside routine servicing and tyres. The Mazda has had no warranty work, BMW 118D had a steering lock under warranty, 2nd Octavia has a drive shaft under warranty and 1st Skoda had wheel bearings under warranty.

I did need a new DSG 'box but that was purely down to stupidity of the dealer who left a socket wrench on the engine cover after the drive shaft change - this rattle of, hit the drive shaft and was propelled into the box, resulting in catastrophic oil loss and failure!!

Car in my early days required constant TLC

[robk1]

Suspect the yes/no approach to this one may just be a little simplistic. Difficult for me to comment on newer vehicles as haven't owned one for such a long time. I can however say that my Skoda ownership over the last 10 to 15 years has on the whole been pleasantly trouble free, with mostly just the routine consumable items to attend to. I suspect with changing policy/pricing strategies within motor manufacturers over the years, repairs/diagnostics etc are most probably comparatively more expensive on newer vehicles & engine bays seem to afford a lot less room to access repairs/maintenance etc.

Another VAG aspect I've noticed is an up lift in spares/parts prices without necessarily a corresponding increase in quality & probably more evident after the Skoda aquisition!

Guess I just prefer older Skoda's!

[rwbaldwin]

A car without ABS, power assist or dual circuit would be more reliable.

No central locking, no heated power mirrors, no power windows would be more reliable.

No aircon, no immobiliser, no radio, no airbags, your knees are the crumple zone, ...

Would you want to drive such a car?

25 years ago you would think yourself lucky if a car lasted 100k and the fuel economy would often be dreadful.

[robk1]

A car without ABS, power assist or dual circuit would be more reliable.

No central locking, no heated power mirrors, no power windows would be more reliable.

No aircon, no immobiliser, no radio, no airbags, your knees are the crumple zone, ...

Would you want to drive such a car?

25 years ago you would think yourself lucky if a car lasted 100k and the fuel economy would often be dreadful.

I like many have owned/driven such cars & my current ride lacks much of what you list. The safety advances are a point very well made. Still bloody fun to drive though!

[fordfan]

I think they are. They're too complicated, contain too many computers, are prone to faults which take a lot of diagnosis time and as a consequence cost a lot to fix and end up scrapped before their time..

[trundlenut]

I would say MRE reliable but harder to pinpoint some problems and more costly to fix.

How many cars do you see now where they overheat or stop because its cold or wet?

But on the flipside could you change a cam belt in an hour in a supermarket car park? And if something goes wrong can it be fixed with a new bit of pipe or jubilee clips?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[DaKKs_152]

The best cars were made between 1995 and 2000. That's my experience at least.

[Huskoda]

I don't know if they are any less reliable, but they certainly are a lot more expensive to fix.

That Kia 7 year warranty is very appealing, especially for the couple of year old used market.

[@Lee]

Pretty sure you can't replace a fan belt with a pair of tights these days. HTH

[MalcForrest]

Modern cars can't be that bad if the nation is holding onto their car for longer, as published in Autocar not so long ago. An official survey showed that since 2007, the average age of a vehicle on the road increased from 5.5 to 7.5 year old. But there is two contributing factors to this, such as finance and the other being reliability. Strangely people who may not be enthusiasts or petrol heads, still grow that affection for their wheels. Part of family

[DaKKs_152]

If you cant fix it with a swiss army knife, a roll of duct tape and a can of WD-40, its a **** car.

[DaKKs_152]

A car without ABS, power assist or dual circuit would be more reliable.

No central locking, no heated power mirrors, no power windows would be more reliable.

No aircon, no immobiliser, no radio, no airbags, your knees are the crumple zone, ...

Would you want to drive such a car?

Yes, I drive an old -92 Mercedes 190e with 400+ bhp (on the wheels) That thing has nothing but raw power. Cant even roll down the windows. If its gonna kill me, I'm gonna die happy.

Besides, I've seen accidents up close. If it comes down to it, I'd rather die in a 20 year old car, than get paralysed from neck down in a brand new one.

[RainbowFire]

That Kia 7 year warranty is very appealing, especially for the couple of year old used market.

Check the small print. Many of these long warranties only apply to first owner.

(definitely in the small print on the Vauxhall ads a little while ago)

[Huskoda]

Check the small print. Many of these long warranties only apply to first owner.

(definitely in the small print on the Vauxhall ads a little while ago)

I did check that, as it was a major selling point. It is transferrable to subsequent owners as long as it is serviced by a VAT registered garage using genuine Kia parts.

[DaKKs_152]

Check the small print. Many of these long warranties only apply to first owner.

(definitely in the small print on the Vauxhall ads a little while ago)

Also, the rust warranty doest apply unless you take the car to Kia for a "rust check" (and pay the fee of course) every year. My godmother had (sold it two weeks ago) a 2007 Rio where the entire rear wheel arch is rotten through. Has maybe 40k miles on the clock.

Spent weeks trying to get rid of the rust but the rear panel was too far gone.

Edited 2 May, 2013 by DaKKs_152

[lol-lol]

We were always servicing and tinkering with cars and bikes 30-35 years ago.

Services 4k on the bikes I recall, 6k on cars. Spark plus to clean and reset, points, oils to change.

A 1400cc car that can criuse at 130 mph (Fabia VRS) until the poor Conti tyres disintergrated (should have used Michelins). (UK MSA records).

Auto Gearbox that should not need work on until over 100K miles and it does over 40 mpg.

850 Mini handled better I think. Opel Manta looked better. Both death traps by comparison.

Sort of miss not tinkering but technology has moved on a huge distance.

Our VRSs are both reliable, touch wood, llittle oil being used.

Skoda is an excellent sub brand of the VW stable. The Czech people are rightly proud of their product.

Their are lots of poor brands by comparison but Skoda continue to stay the top of their game.

[slider]

To add to LOL's point, when I started driving a car was generally knackered at much more than 60k and 5 or 6 years and 100k was most unusual. Now it is not unusual to do 150k and 15 years without major mishap.

New blocks, head skims, Decokes even replacement clutches are all very rare.

[ScoobyChris]

I think modern cars are much more reliable and resilient, but as a consequence the concept of being able to do a "roadside repair" is much rarer and if anything does go wrong, there will likely be a significant repair bill. The home mechanic also now needs a computer/fault code reader in his toolbox

Chris

[Scribbler]

I would say around 1994 - 1996 was a good era for cars: Clio Williams, Golf VR6, Corrado VR6 etc. Very reliable and testiment to this is the amount still on the road today Most things you could fix yourself without needing a laptop.