Copper grease or not - on brakes?!

[mattvrestate]

Lol "stealership monkeys"

In reply to the above.. front pads have clips.. rears have glue..

Greasing the backs with copper grease is not essential or necessary.

Also Plasti-lube IS a direct replacement for Copper slip (copper grease) for the use on brake carriers where the pad sits. Dont shoot the messenger. Im sure VW have good reason to ban using Copper Grease.. they tend to be very thorough in researching + developing and im pretty sure they have not based there findings on "half truths"

Back street monkeys blather everything in it. Doesnt mean there is any need for it.

We are talking about the fabia vrs that the OP was originally asking about. This is a modern car + doesnt need all the extra crap that an old car might need or require stone age techniques like blathering everything in copper grease

Cleaning the backs of the wheels + around the discs/ hubs + applying a small amount of spray grease (white grease/ clear grease) is a much better/ cleaner or dare i say modern way of stopping wheels seizing on

Stealership Monkey :D .. keep up2 date and you might be able to charge "stealership prices"

Edited 28 May, 2013 by mattvrestate

[Breezy_Pete]

I wonder how many youngsters in Skodealerships have followed this instruction about drum brakes a bit too literally?:

"Cover the whole contact surface of the brake shoe with solid lubricant paste -G 000 650-"

From number 11, here: http://skoda.workshop-manuals.com/fabia-mk2/index.php?id=206

:wonder:

[sepulchrave]

Gigantic wall of pompous text...

Seriously?

Galvanic corrosion requires the presence of an electrolyte, Copaslip is not an electrolyte, DUH!

Of course I can make that statement, Copaslip contains absolutely no such contaminants so you're talking utter nonsense.

Anyone 'slavering' over anything written here should not be touching their own deadly weapon!

That is all.

[Golden]

:love: I think you're being over sensitive.

Lol "stealership monkeys"

In reply to the above.. front pads have clips.. rears have glue..

I believe the fronts have anti rattle clips but anti squeal is handled mainly by the spring clip shim insert in the piston caliper.

Greasing the backs with copper grease is not essential or necessary.

This depends on whether someone has lost the piston shim or if the clips are worn or damaged.

Also Plasti-lube IS a direct replacement for Copper slip (copper grease) for the use on brake carriers where the pad sits. Dont shoot the messenger. Im sure VW have good reason to ban using Copper Grease.. they tend to be very thorough in researching + developing and im pretty sure they have not based there findings on "half truths"

I didn't mean it wasn't a good substitute, I said Plasti-lube is a better product, I should have made myself clearer, what I meant was that you don't need to drop using copper grease in all applications in favour of Plasti-lube.

We are talking about the fabia vrs that the OP was originally asking about. This is a modern car + doesnt need all the extra crap that an old car might need or require stone age techniques like blathering everything in copper grease

I completely disagree, modern cars with the harder wearing, extended service interval brakes suffer far more from brake squeal than any age of car that's gone before them, with maybe the time period of the switch from asbestos to asbestos free lining material being an exception.

Stealership Monkey :D .. keep up2 date and you might be able to charge "stealership prices"

TBH in the arches (I'd include tyre/exhaust places and Halfrauds in this) and dealership mechanics (certainly not all but the majority) tend to be the least skilled personnel in the motor industry.

In the arches monkeys are untrained bodgers, often ripping off the customer because of their own ignorance and inability to not break parts or competently diagnose faults.

Stealership monkeys are unthinking automatons, who have their diagnostic abilities beaten out of them by factory diagnostic machines, service bulletins and manufacturer book times. They are often completely incapable of completing the most mundane task on a vehicle they're unfamiliar with and never consider that the manufacturer could be wrong or have alternative motives for making them buy additional equipment or products.

I'm not suggesting this is you, but look around your workshop and tell me I'm not right, out of an average of 6-8 mechanics at a stealership only 1, 2 if you're lucky, can be called anything more than glorified fitters.

As for stealership prices, people only pay them to keep the warranty up and because manufacturers use diagnostic and special tools to price independents out of the market.

Most people know of a good mechanic/garage they'd rather use if the above two issues weren't a consideration.

I should point out that I'm neither a stealership nor independent mechanic.

[Guest BigJase88]

Lol "stealership monkeys"

In reply to the above.. front pads have clips.. rears have glue..

Greasing the backs with copper grease is not essential or necessary.

Also Plasti-lube IS a direct replacement for Copper slip (copper grease) for the use on brake carriers where the pad sits. Dont shoot the messenger. Im sure VW have good reason to ban using Copper Grease.. they tend to be very thorough in researching + developing and im pretty sure they have not based there findings on "half truths"

Back street monkeys blather everything in it. Doesnt mean there is any need for it.

We are talking about the fabia vrs that the OP was originally asking about. This is a modern car + doesnt need all the extra crap that an old car might need or require stone age techniques like blathering everything in copper grease

Cleaning the backs of the wheels + around the discs/ hubs + applying a small amount of spray grease (white grease/ clear grease) is a much better/ cleaner or dare i say modern way of stopping wheels seizing on

Stealership Monkey :D .. keep up2 date and you might be able to charge "stealership prices"

In my experience back street garages are better than main dealers!

My local VW garage managed to smash my wheel bearing to smitherines! Must have dropped it off a ramp or smashed it into a kerb!

[Golden]

Golden, on 28 May 2013 - 13:26, said:

Gigantic wall of pompous text...

Seriously?

Galvanic corrosion requires the presence of an electrolyte, Copaslip is not an electrolyte, DUH!

Of course I can make that statement, Copaslip contains absolutely no such contaminants so you're talking utter nonsense.

Anyone 'slavering' over anything written here should not be touching their own deadly weapon!

That is all.

Maybe you could point out which bits are pompous and which bits are just factually accurate text?

Two things you rude person.

The OP talks about generic 'copper grease' and if you bothered to read my 'Gigantic wall of pompous text' you may have learn't that not all copper grease is created equal and so sweeping generalizations shouldn't be made.

?As for requiring an electrolyte it's a good job cars operate in a sterile vacuum container and don't get exposed to things like rain, snow and road salt, because that would create an excellent electrolyte.

:think:

[mattvrestate]

My experience of back street garages/ forum mechanics is they seem to "know everything" untill something goes wrong.. then it is down to us the "stealers" to sort out there f ups/ uninformed guess work "diagnosis"..

We deal with alot of work that gets sent to us by these "better than dealers" mechanics who jump straight in ripping things apart etc..

U can call us fitters but at the end of the day all the parts we "fit" have to be guaranteed. If we stripped parts and repaired them like back streets then we could not guarantee the repair.

You may spend more at a dealers to start with but u get informed diagnosis not uninformed gueswork

If the fault isnt cured by our diagnosis then we will carry out all further diagnostics untill the fault is found free of charge.. u wont find a back street that will offer this..

Our repairs + parts are warranted..

U will find the back street is happy to take your money untill the job becomes too hard.. then either they send the car to us or you do.. u wont see any of your money back though and 9 times out of 10 it would have been cheaper to come to the "stealers" to start with !

Iv never had or know of any techy at my dealer that has had brakes come back squeeling etc.. but have heard alot of storys of cars going back 3-4 times to a garage down the road for brakes sqeel. Tbf alot of it is the parts used..non-gen pads can be noisy no matter what u do to them. But u get what u pay for

Edited 28 May, 2013 by mattvrestate

[Huskoda]

Sorry, I can't agree with that, from my own experience (with a Ford garage, mind you) and from what I see people saying here, dealers are more than happy to just dive in and start replacing part after part hoping they eventually find what is broken. I put a stop to it as soon as I found out what the game was and refused to pay for the replacement of any parts that weren't defective. After a 2 week telephone battle, I got my car back working and paid only about 5% of the bill. Dealers don't fix, they replace. I'm not saying they won't sort the issue in the end, but the attitude I see is more just to throw customer's money at it than actually work out what is wrong.

[mattvrestate]

But u ended up paying 5% of the bill ^^

Try that trick at a back street garage..

There are sum nuggets but u cant tar all dealers of dealer techs with the same brush.. at the end of the day as shown in a good example above.. if ur not happy at a dealers u wont pay.. that dealer has had to pay for all those parts due to there tech f ing up.

A back street has no option but to charge the customer.

[mattvrestate]

And im guessing the dealer fixed the problem aswell?

Alot of the problem is people dont like hearing there car has a problem.. if it needs a part then it needs a part.. u can go to 10 different back streets getting different monkeys scratching there heads.. but after paying them all for bodging the part.. eventually u will still need to replace the defective part.

Edited 28 May, 2013 by mattvrestate

[Huskoda]

The dealer worked around it. I sold the car a couple of months later. Edit: They never did find what was wrong with it and caused the fault. They just made the fault not show itself.

There are numpties all over in all sorts of places. I have had good and bad treatment from both. I've caught dealers (VW Leeds) cheating on their work, by checking what they said they had done. I've also had a backstreet garage **** up simple jobs (changing the brakes). Currently we also have a Kia which is dealt with by the dealer and they have been excellent so far. The dashcam did show the mechanics inside are pretty old guys, not kids, though My favoured back street garage are a family job, so no real staff turnover. I know who will be dealing with the car and they get to learn it. They are also remarkably honest when they don't know in advance how to do something.

I guess I'm just saying both have a different approach to getting your car working. I also just feel that people, myself included, expect much better of franchised dealers. They are more expensive and are supposed to be the experts.

[Corni]

Actually coating the inner side of a new disc...

And then you're wondering why the heck do your steering wheel shake when braking.

[Guest BigJase88]

Last VW 'technician' i met still had acne!

Its not a mechanic anymore! No! These guys are 'technicians'

My mate worked for VW as a mechanic! He was a total space cadet! Used to ask my advice about motors! And i know jack all!! But still more than he did!

Fortunately he's now moved on to selling phones after he threw the computer over another lad in vw dumfries's garage

[Guest BigJase88]

The backstreet lad i take my car to is a mechanic for the ford wrc team

Charges £25 an hour and will bend over backwards to help you!

He was going to corsica the next day so worked through the night to make my 2 fudged gearboxes from my old corolla t-sport into one good gearbox!

Not something you'd get at a main dealers imo

[sepulchrave]

Maybe you could point out which bits are pompous and which bits are just factually accurate text?

Two things you rude person.

The OP talks about generic 'copper grease' and if you bothered to read my 'Gigantic wall of pompous text' you may have learn't that not all copper grease is created equal and so sweeping generalizations shouldn't be made.

?As for requiring an electrolyte it's a good job cars operate in a sterile vacuum container and don't get exposed to things like rain, snow and road salt, because that would create an excellent electrolyte.

:think:

I think you're being a little over-sensitive.

If you quote me out of context then I reserve the right to reply.

The reason for using anti-seize compounds like Copaslip is to exclude electrolytes which may cause corrosion so your argument is paradoxical.

Other than that, you're golden

[trundlenut]

The service manager at a Skoda dealer said to me "we don't repair, just replace." If a certain error codes shows up then they replace the part(s) as specified by Skoda. They are not allowed to deviate from the prescribed solution dictated by Skoda.

The guy who told me this apologised and said I would probably be better off taking the car to an independent.

The initial solution to the mk60 esp unit problem demonstrates this approach.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[mattvrestate]

I know jack all!!

But still have alot of outspoken opinions on all things mechanical

We have an old boy at our work whos 63.. hes worked at back streets.. been a mastertech at Jaguar.. Toyota.. Lexus and various other mechanical places for 40 years..

He knows F all about VWs and is so crap we have to give him Sales work or simple service work.

General mechanical experience doesnt count for much on modern cars. Its all about keeping on top of new technologys.. Diagnosing the "right way" (VWs way).. having evidence to back up your diagnosis etc etc..

Back street mechanics are a dying breed. Give it 10 years and they will be doing nothing but MOTs.. services and brakes. (Which is what most do now anyway)

You cant keep up with the technology on new cars.

It doesnt matter how old you are working at a main dealer we rarely see cars older than 15 years.. so a 50 year old mechanic has no real world advantage over a 20 year old "with achne" lol.

Dont get me wrong. I know nothing bar the basics outside of VAG cars but iv worked on VW/ Audi since i was 17 so im pretty sure i know enough about VAG cars to make it worth the extra "stealer" prices for a propper diagnosis from me at work..

Its ok being a good experienced mechanic who knows a little about alot of different cars.. but when it comes to new stuff especially new VW technologys.. they cannot keep up.

And i see it time + time again when the cars end up with us after sum billy down the road has ripped it apart scratching his head lol

If u know a decent mechanic then they have there uses.. but diagnosing modern cars regardless of make is best left to the stealers..

[trundlenut]

Diagnosing is one thing, repairing is something entirely different.

It seems to me that there is a lot if churn of staff between dealerships (not just mechanics) and consequently people don't have get extensive experience of any one manufacturer. Also as dealerships get aggregated (2,3 or 4 makes being serviced by one set of mechanics in one location) this can't help in developing the expertise of the mechanics.

The costs of the required diagnostics equipment is a big influence on independents. The dealers have no choice but to get the required equipment from the manufacturers (but will potentially need less kit to service only one make) and their cost base takes this into account. An independent may need much more kit to be able to offer a good level of service to whoever comes through the door. A friend of mine spent over £10k on diagnostics equipment.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[mattvrestate]

The service manager at a Skoda dealer said to me "we don't repair, just replace." If a certain error codes shows up then they replace the part(s) as specified by Skoda.

The initial solution to the mk60 esp unit problem demonstrates this approach.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

This is a good example of why going to a main dealer would have saved alot of money.

VW and im sure skoda replace/ replaced the ABS unit under Goodwill regardless of car age.. milliage or service history..

Those scrimpers who went to a back street mechanic who bodged the ABS unit.. not only had to pay for the privilage of half a job but also voided the warranty on the ABS pump.. so when the pump does break they no longer get the pump or in case of the later pumps the abs unit (seperate to the c.unit) under good will. (Free or large % paid for)

Same applys to injectors on the 2.0 bkd/ bkp..

As stated earlier the "replace not repair" rule is there for a reason.

All repairs we do are warranted. Stripping C.units etc might be a cheap fix but also quite easily becomes a big bodge and cannot be warranted.

If u want a cheap fix from a backstreet.. thats exactly what you get.

If you want to elliminate the risk then Main Dealers are the answer.

Up to you whether you trust your back street mechanic enough to take the risk with them

Edited 28 May, 2013 by mattvrestate

[rum4mo]

And then you're wondering why the heck do your steering wheel shake when braking.

I don't really understand your comment, reading the full text of my posting would reveal that I was referring to coating the inner and outer areas that contact the hub and wheel, also, with a bit of common sense you might assume that I was, in reality, only applying a thin film of copaslip to both sides, in doing so stopping future corrosion in its tracks.

[Guest BigJase88]

Main dealers will never save you money!

I got 312's fitted

Timing belt + waterpump

Eibach springs

Helix clutch and flywheel

For... £125 and a bottle of whisky! Price at main dealer probably well into 4 figures

[trundlenut]

This is a good example of why going to a main dealer would have saved alot of money.

VW and im sure skoda replace/ replaced the ABS unit under Goodwill regardless of car age.. milliage or service history..

Those scrimpers who went to a back street mechanic who bodged the ABS unit.. not only had to pay for the privilage of half a job but also voided the warranty on the ABS pump.. so when the pump does break they no longer get the pump or in case of the later pumps the abs unit (seperate to the c.unit) under good will. (Free or large % paid for)

Same applys to injectors on the 2.0 bkd/ bkp..

As stated earlier the "replace not repair" rule is there for a reason.

All repairs we do are warranted. Stripping C.units etc might be a cheap fix but also quite easily becomes a big bodge and cannot be warranted.

If u want a cheap fix from a backstreet.. thats exactly what you get.

If you want to elliminate the risk then Main Dealers are the answer.

Up to you whether you trust your back street mechanic enough to take the risk with them

The various VAG companies initially decreed that the entire abs module had to be replaced at a cost well in excess of £1,000 for the parts, whereas now there is an official repair kit which costs under £200...

From what I read in a variety of media (including national papers, not just the internet) people were getting goodwill payments but often only after protracted periods often including threats of legal action or contacting the media. It is strange that the "official" repair kit is identical to the dubious bodging of the backstreet metal bashers.

As regards my own experience, I had the sticky turbo vanes problem caused by a change in my driving patterns. The dealer said that the turbo had to be replaced at a cost of over £1,300 pounds. This was solved essentially by a man in a "backstreet garage" with a wire brush for a fraction of the dealer costs. Again to be fair to the particular dealer they didn't charge me for the diagnostics.

Following the "cheap fix" the car provided sterling service for more than 6 years and 70k miles.

[Guest BigJase88]

But still have alot of outspoken opinions on all things mechanical

We have an old boy at our work whos 63.. hes worked at back streets.. been a mastertech at Jaguar.. Toyota.. Lexus and various other mechanical places for 40 years..

He knows F all about VWs and is so crap we have to give him Sales work or simple service work.

General mechanical experience doesnt count for much on modern cars. Its all about keeping on top of new technologys.. Diagnosing the "right way" (VWs way).. having evidence to back up your diagnosis etc etc..

Back street mechanics are a dying breed. Give it 10 years and they will be doing nothing but MOTs.. services and brakes. (Which is what most do now anyway)

You cant keep up with the technology on new cars.

It doesnt matter how old you are working at a main dealer we rarely see cars older than 15 years.. so a 50 year old mechanic has no real world advantage over a 20 year old "with achne" lol.

Dont get me wrong. I know nothing bar the basics outside of VAG cars but iv worked on VW/ Audi since i was 17 so im pretty sure i know enough about VAG cars to make it worth the extra "stealer" prices for a propper diagnosis from me at work..

Its ok being a good experienced mechanic who knows a little about alot of different cars.. but when it comes to new stuff especially new VW technologys.. they cannot keep up.

And i see it time + time again when the cars end up with us after sum billy down the road has ripped it apart scratching his head lol

If u know a decent mechanic then they have there uses.. but diagnosing modern cars regardless of make is best left to the stealers..

I am a trademan of different sorts

Theres not much to mechanics, nuts and bolts and computer programmes!

I can do most things its not exactly rocket science! Saved myself a packet and im still alive and so is my car

[rum4mo]

One thing that should be remembered about main dealers is, they "see" a high volume of cars, tend to get pre-loaded for work roughly a week or two ahead, so it is in their interests to keep "contact time" down - that way the customer normally saves money. I only use the main dealer for MOTs and the odd big job where the dealers expertise and tools beats me hands down. You just can't beat the back up that they will have including archiving that car's early breakdown/repair history.

There is nothing unique about the way car dealerships work, it is just the modern and normally efficient organised and controlled way of running a workshop.

Where does or did your local telly fixer get his knowledge from - his experience, I'd doubt it, he gets it by subscribing to a knowledge base, so he also follows a well trodden path to solving most problems.

[trundlenut]

The standard of service can vary wildly in both sectors.

The dealer we got my wife's Leon from had their franchise taken off them by Seat for appalling levels of service and workmanship. Shortly after we got the car the front wipers failed, the car was repaired but when we got it back the trim was hanging off the inside of the boot lid, so the car went back - how on earth did a main dealer with all their training and back up manage to start work on entirely the wrong end of the car?

I once had a car fail an MoT at an independent garage for a worn steering rack, I smelt a rat and took the car to another test centre where it sailed straight through.

Garages are owned and operated by people, some are thick and some are shysters, it doesn't matter whether they have shiny (insert manufacturer here) "uniforms" or mucky overalls, you take your chances until you find someone you are happy with and trust.