Aren't most car thefts a break-into-your-house-steal-keys-and-away job nowadays anyway?

P

 

Possibly, but what's that got to do with this security 'problem'?

re:

PS: I hope you guys don't think that if you get a car with normal keys, that those won't get stolen.

P

Too late for people that already have it on their cars. Everybody else switch to the classic system, if you think that will keep the car on your driveway.

@Neily, so I guess on the cars you've unlocked from afar until now, you've never touched the door handle to actually open the door? :p That's the "unlocking" for you on Kessy. And I'm actually ok with having to touch the handle to lock it. You wouldn't want it to lock itself whenever it decides to do it.

 

Very true on the unlocking but as for the locking I can just now walk away and lock it after the missus has got out, much more convenient than having the touch a special little square on the door handle....

I guess you can still unlock/lock the car with the keyfob using the conventional button press on the fob and effectively over ride KESSY?

Yep, that's what I was about to say. You can still use your remote just as you do now.

I guess you can still unlock/lock the car with the keyfob using the conventional button press on the fob and effectively over ride KESSY?

 

Probably but then you'd feel like you've wasted £300.....

Anyone know for definite?

Know what? If you can use it in the "standard" fashion? Yes you can, it's stated in the manual. The keyfob looks identical on the outside.

Thanks TudorM. I'd like to learn more about the actual security problems of KESSY, useful to know you can do a manual keyfob lock which is what I'd do at times (for instance airport car parks etc).

KESSY......what an awful acronym that is

I think I'd steer clear of it for that reason alone

Thanks for your help everyone!

P

Done a search & there are many examples of cars with keyless systems being stolen.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBX5_McELMY is worth a look.

Apparently the key fob in your pocket continuously sends out a signal which can be captured on a cheap device by someone nearby. They can then use that to unlock your car.

The low tech answer being offered until manufacturers think of a solution is "wrap your key fob in tinfoil" to block the signal. Glad I didn't bother with Kessy, but for those who have it hope they sort it quickly. Wonder if Insurance Companies will load policies for those with the system???

Edited 19 September, 201312 yr by kalpat

I have KESSY and I thing is great. If you do not use sensors 60 hours, they swich of.

Edited 19 September, 201312 yr by maskoo

@kalpat, video doesn't work.

@kalpat, video doesn't work.

Can't answer why, but it was a recording of an Australian daytime TV show in June this year & the gist of it was as I described. If you Google keyless car system problems it appears to be a general problem identified across numerous car makers.

I remember things like this years ago and I'm talking 15 years plus years ago.

 

A bloke I once knew, was in the RAF and was a radar technician working at RAF Cosford.

 

For one of his projects, as part of his ongoing education and qualifications, he built a radar capable of reading remote control 'waves' from key fobs. His receiver sat on the dash of his brown Sierra and once it had read a signal, he could then use that signal to unlock and then lock a car.

 

Amazing what can be done today and back then!

 

BTW his name is Gary, Gaz and speaks in a brummy accent - 'ow am yer mate? etc, etc. Just in case. You know...

 

Apparently he works in second hand car sales now. Much more money than the RAF lol - this bit is a joke btw......

 

James.

I can remember having one of those remote control watches years ago and I got it to learn the IR from the fob of my dads Peugeot 405. Used to make my dad think something was wrong with the car because he couldn't understand why it was always open when he was sure he had locked it lol.

Based on that video, I can't say I'm too concerned at having KESSY. The theft was obviously professionally arranged if not carried out, so is almost certainly a theft to order. Whilst it's not impossible, I'd have thought that it is much less likely that it would happen with something as common as an Octavia.

 

Also, they still had to smash the glass and set off the alarm to do what they did. I'd be intrigued to find out why this didn't alert the owner. Effectively, they used electronics to start the car rather than mechanically forcing the lock. It did mean the immobiliser was therefore ineffective, but I'd be willing to bet that it can be bypassed on any car with the right planning.

 

Ultimately, if someone really wants your car they will find a way to take it whatever system is in place to prevent it. Any electronic system has built in flaws because if someone can design it, someone else can find a way to break it.

Based on that video, I can't say I'm too concerned at having KESSY. The theft was obviously professionally arranged if not carried out, so is almost certainly a theft to order. Whilst it's not impossible, I'd have thought that it is much less likely that it would happen with something as common as an Octavia.

 

Also, they still had to smash the glass and set off the alarm to do what they did. I'd be intrigued to find out why this didn't alert the owner. Effectively, they used electronics to start the car rather than mechanically forcing the lock. It did mean the immobiliser was therefore ineffective, but I'd be willing to bet that it can be bypassed on any car with the right planning.

 

Ultimately, if someone really wants your car they will find a way to take it whatever system is in place to prevent it. Any electronic system has built in flaws because if someone can design it, someone else can find a way to break it.

The item I saw was a different scenario. The cloned key fob not only opens the car door but the same code allows the car to be started as it is a copy of the original. Therefore no glass broken, no alarm sounding. The cloned fob is made by just being near the person who has it in their possession, so could be well away from the car. If thieves can make money they will target all types of cars. I am sure they wouldn't turn their noses up at an Octy valued at £20k plus. You therefore have to wonder if it is not a significant problem why are manufacturers taking it so seriously.

A regular remote keyfob can be recorded in just the same way as a keyless one.

 

Seriously -if someone has a mind to steal your car or break in to your house they will do so if they are determined to, it wouldn't matter what security you have in place. Obviously most of these crimes are carried out by opportunists who are not prepared to get round these security systems. 

 

Unfortunately it's a sad world that we live in where these sorts are around, but we have to accept that that is the way things are.

The item I saw was a different scenario. The cloned key fob not only opens the car door but the same code allows the car to be started as it is a copy of the original. Therefore no glass broken, no alarm sounding. The cloned fob is made by just being near the person who has it in their possession, so could be well away from the car. If thieves can make money they will target all types of cars. I am sure they wouldn't turn their noses up at an Octy valued at £20k plus. You therefore have to wonder if it is not a significant problem why are manufacturers taking it so seriously.

 

I think that is a different situation. From what I can see, that occurs when you press a button on the remote to unlock the car (i.e. the traditional remote key system). They can capture the signal from the key, clone it, then unlock the car. Obviously they can't start it because they don't have the physical key or immobiliser chip. With the KESSY type system, it does look like they have to force entry into the car and hook something up to the OBD port to be able to clone the key,

 

I think the KESSY type system provides more security in terms of gaining access to the car because the key does not transmit a signal that can be cloned. There is a method that allows the thief to relay the key signal to the car using aerials (http://eprint.iacr.org/2010/332.pdf), but again it would require a lot of forward planning to do this as everything has to be in place at the time of the theft.

 

If the thief gains access to the car however, then it is less secure because with the right electronics they can fully clone the key and will be able to drive it away as in the original video.

Edited 20 September, 201312 yr by spacenase