Warning on Spark Plugs 1.4 TSI CAVE VRS, (& CTHE)'check the spark plugs!'

[Ootohere]

It really can not be stressed enough how important the Correct Spark Plugs, Gap & Condition of all 4 spark Plugs are on the Twinchargers.

 

You might have ones that are perfect, and last 40,000 miles,

but do not take it for granted,  Bought New or Used, you must check what Servicing is being done, 

do not just trust to the Skoda Service Schedule / Guidelines and what you are told about how long the Spark Plugs last.

 

Twinchargers Cook one Spark Plug more than the other 3. 

Failure is Common, but not necessarily happening with every car.

 

If you have a CAVE Engine, be sure it runs the latest ECU Map & good Spark Plugs.

[Gumby]

Second from the left is the worst, I;d check compression on that pot first and then do a blow down test

I would, but don't have any or the tools or skills to do that myself

I could take it back to the dealer and get them to check, but would the cost of that out way the benefits of checking if the compression is ok? I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be checked, but as it behaves normally for me is it worth it? Yes I could take it to a reputable cheaper independent garage, but I'm trying to keep all the work done on mine as Skoda or specialist only for when the time does come to sell up.

I plan on getting the plugs changed every year or 10,000 miles now as a matter or course.

[Gumby]

It really can not be stressed enough how important the Correct Spark Plugs, Gap & Condition of all 4 spark Plugs are on the Twinchargers.

You might have ones that are perfect, and last 40,000 miles,

but do not take it for granted, Bought New or Used, you must check what Servicing is being done,

do not just trust to the Skoda Service Schedule / Guidelines and what you are told about how long the Spark Plugs last.

Twinchargers Cook one Spark Plug more than the other 3.

Failure is Common, but not necessarily happening with every car.

If you have a CAVE Engine, be sure it runs the latest ECU Map & good Spark Plugs.

I now appreciate how important this is, seeing what mine looked like its quite thought provoking how important good plugs/setup is in these engines. The difference of fresh plugs is good too, feels a lot smoother in general including gear changes and MPG is better too but that may just be post service.

[Ootohere]

EDIT,

this is a reply to post #202.

 

JIMHO,  

no point checking  Compression.  etc,  Just do the Servicing to keep the Warranty Valid.

  You have done the correct thing.

 

You put in 4 new plugs, correct gap, correct plugs, and latest Sofrware Update, and the new plugs should go OK.

How the 4 plugs in post #198 looks is how many from a CAVE look and some from a CTHE that will run perfectly well

from now on.

Edited 14 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Jabozuma]

Getting the leak down test is not "work" as such, simple diagnostic routine not requiring any expensive tools.

https://www.vidaxl.co.uk/p/210121/cylinder-leak-detector-set?gclid=CLmJh9_c9cQCFRQatAodjUkAJw - I think I will be buying this one myself !

 

All you need more is something to pull your ignition coils and thin-walled spark plug long socket

Edited 14 April, 2015 by Jabozuma

[Jabozuma]

OK, BUT,  if there is a problem in that cylinder, and to me it looks like there is, putting new plugs will not help, quite the opposite.

At least now, before the damage is terminal, inexpensive remedial works could be undertaken to prevent chunks of valves/rings/piston being circulated around the engine or ingested by the turbine.

[Ootohere]

Jabozuma,?

 

Once you have this information, what are you doing with it,

are you going to be asking Skoda to also test then replace your engine if you find a problem ?

 

Skoda / VW know the issues, it is why the CAVE was Replaced with the CTHE and is now discontinued,.

except in the SEAT, and they are not selling.

 

Keep a Valid Warranty, and keep to the Servicing Guidelines & maybe just change plugs sooner.

& if you Modify and have no Warranty, then check and take actions to reduce your expense if there might be failures.

JIMHO

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

Edited 14 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Jabozuma]

If I knew there was a problem then I could go to Skoda and insist on sorting it out.

Performing a leak down test on a cylinder is the same as changing a spark plug - it has no effect on warranty since you are not making any changes to the car whatsoever. That is my take on the matter but it is up to everybody personally to make that decision of course . 

 

I think the most important thing people should be aware of that changing plugs very often will not guarantee that there is no problem in the engine. That plug indicates huge buildups in the cylinder. That means valves possibly have a nice coating of crap on them (which in itself will prevent valves from mating with the seats correctly), which heats up nicely, overheats them and lead to burning out - intake valves suffer the most as this is a direct injection engine and therefore no air fuel mixture to clean them up.

Change of plug will not sort it out. 

 

Even with very good plugs but with oil on the combustion chamber ECU can think that the engine is running rich, start taking fuel away and lean out the motor too much causing catastrophic failure. Same goes for low compression in the cylinder. ECU is not able to tell as there is only one (two in fact) narrow band lambda probe past turbo - no way to tell which pot is not working correctly so it screws other cylinders in the process. If there was an EGT and wide band lambda on every header that engine would be producing over 250 bhp without breaking a sweat and never failing, provided no oil usage of course  

[Ootohere]

I think we know the Current Fix that will be offered. 'Squirters'  

According to Skoda Techs, Fixes any issue in 99% of all know cases of dirt around the toilet bowl.

 

 

 

or is that Cilit Bang?

Edited 14 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[rawcpoppa]

Is there any way to clean valves or to check them for buildup? I have a cavd engine that's been remapped to about 195hp so I'm guessing I'm in the same boat as cave guys and these threads, while informative, are a bit scary.

[Ootohere]

Is it a Sirocco you have?

& running it on 95 ron?

 

As long as the plugs are good and it runs well as you have it mapped, why worry?

 

If you want to check the Cylinders and the Valves as well as you can with a Borescope as mentioned in the thread last week.

 

http://adamlewin.co.uk/vw-mk5-golf-tsi-engine-timing-chain-problem

Edited 14 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[rawcpoppa]

Nope. Got a Jetta.

Yep running 95. The plugs I changed at the recommended service interval of 40,000 miles and they were clean. Reason why I am worried is because people seem to have ZERO warning before their car gets some sort of piston damage. We also only get two years warranty here and I am in my third year of ownership.

Thanks for link on borescope.

Edited 14 April, 2015 by rawcpoppa

[Ootohere]

You do get some clue before a problem, 

like High Oil Use,  Rough Running, Misfires or the likes.

 

If your car / engine runs OK, then chill.

 

?

What country are you in?

[rawcpoppa]

I'm from Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean.

Most times I am chill about potential issues as I don't have any of the warning signs but ever so often fellow owners down here post stories on forums that make me hmmm. Owners who only ever put Ron 95, never remapped so pushing 160hp and need engine rebuilds.

So far this forum and the seatcupra forum have been most detailed about the actual issues. Surprisingly the Vw forums generally just have complaints with little remedies for the twincharger.

[Ootohere]

Looks Lovely,

 enjoy and please do not worry, you know what to look out for.

[chappers777]

Afternoon sadly I had a misfire on cylinder 4 on Wednesday RAC met me at work and went through the normal thing or read codes and inspected plug all seemed good. Drove home all fine, drove to uni fine drove home and kept getting a bad misfire. Made it home RAC came out again cylinder 2 misfire. Checked the plug and found this. Rang skoda uk I had plugs changed a year ago and inspected on the last service 10k ago. Skoda dealer ship said they will change the plugs and what have you. But can't see the car till Wednesday and don't have a hire car till 2 weeks past then. Not happy I need my car for work but want it sorted. As the part failed under warranty im guessing any damage it has caused is also covered?

I've brought a new set of plugs but I would like akoda to change the part and find the missing electrode. Where do you all think I stand on this. Waiting for skoda uk to get back to me as the dealership don't care

[Vrs-Fletch]

That happened to mine and I ended up with a new engine. Took 6 weeks but mine was out of warrenty

[chappers777]

Mine still runs okay though? Just misses under hard acceleration

[Ootohere]

Best do no hard acceleration then, because 2 cylinders can shut down and you go into Limp Mode,

& the Turbo is Inhibited.

 

Did the RAC person take all 4 Spark Plugs out and check?

You say Cylinder 2,  do you mean second from the left?

 

Who is the Warranty with a 'Skoda Approved with Car Care, and Skoda Assist' ?

Get them to arrange a car for now, not 2 weeks away.

Best read the Warranty Policy.

[chappers777]

I'm not driving the car the dealer has agreed to have a look and change the part, I brought some plugs but not put them In. No he didn't. Just 4 and 2 and yes 2 is second from left to right. I Looked at 3 and they look healthy not sooty or sticky. The car has no warranty the warranty is on the parts and labour which is 24 months and unlimited miles. Skoda uk confirmed this. im waiting for skoda uk to ring me back after talking to the dealer.

They said that isn't good enough. It's a cave engine just about to do 50k. I want to also view what skoda do as I want the electrode found either remove the head or use a borascope and find it in the cylinder.

The RAC man said it will run as there is still a tad for the spark to jump but on hard acceratjon it's just to big. I've not checked cylinder 1 as I need to remove all the breather pipes.

[chappers777]

I said I can change the plug myself if skids can't see the car for a while but want it in writing if something does go wrong that it's their fault. They said they will get to me about this. I can't be without a car. I use it for work and need to travel

Other issue is in 20 and not sure if their insurance will cover me

[walterwilson85]

George can you explain the skoda assist, I'm curious to know do I have it? I have not owned the car from new. Warranty is until November this year.. Is this something you have for 3years or so?

[Ootohere]

Skoda Assist is your Break Down Assistance, and can include Recovery, and also Providing a Hire Car.

 

Or the Warranty Provider can ensure you stay Mobile, ie with a Courtesy or Hire Car.

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/on-the-road/roadside-assistance/default

Edited 1 May, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[brad1.8T]

Afternoon sadly I had a misfire on cylinder 4 on Wednesday RAC met me at work and went through the normal thing or read codes and inspected plug all seemed good. Drove home all fine, drove to uni fine drove home and kept getting a bad misfire. Made it home RAC came out again cylinder 2 misfire. Checked the plug and found this. Rang skoda uk I had plugs changed a year ago and inspected on the last service 10k ago. Skoda dealer ship said they will change the plugs and what have you. But can't see the car till Wednesday and don't have a hire car till 2 weeks past then. Not happy I need my car for work but want it sorted. As the part failed under warranty im guessing any damage it has caused is also covered?

I've brought a new set of plugs but I would like akoda to change the part and find the missing electrode. Where do you all think I stand on this. Waiting for skoda uk to get back to me as the dealership don't care

electrode might have scooted out the exhaust valve.  I'd want a camera dowm the plughole to look for any damage to the bore.  I'd also want a compression test on all 4 cylinders.

 

If skoda supplied 7 fitted the plugs then it's all warranty on them - esp if there's a failure down the road.  Make sure they have the facts in the computer system & ask them for a hard copy for your own records.

[Ootohere]

re #post 220

 

Check the Cylinder Numbers,

not just go by Left to right and call them a number.

 

It should not be driven.

As to a 2 year warranty on Original parts purchased.

?

Does that apply with Spark Plugs which are consumables?

Mileage and use would and can be different engine to engine.

The Plugs used in the Twincharger might last 40,000 miles when in other engines,

yet not half that in the 1.4 TSI Twincharger CAVE / CTHE.

 

*The electrode can and does often just burn out, and does not break off.*

 

Anyway, the Spark Plugs in themselves might not really be the problem in the bigger picture,

but is the symptom of the bigger issue, which is your current problem.

It is the Fundamental Design issues of the Engine & Manifold.

As Skoda / VW well know.

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

 

?

What does the Invoice say the Spark Plugs were put in at a Dealership last time. ?

Part Number.

 

As to removing all the breather pipes.

Well not really you remove what you need to,  5 minutes, and 10 more putting back,

, and that is what you need to do what needs doing to change 4 spark plugs,

and many just do not bother.

That is a problem as is often seen.

Edited 2 May, 2015 by goneoffSKi