Warning on Spark Plugs 1.4 TSI CAVE VRS, (& CTHE)'check the spark plugs!'

[thomasaspin]

18 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

think I'm revising the vrs mk2 spark plug check to once every 3 months or 1000 miles whichever is sooner unless there is diamond / titanium plug out there! Lol

hi mate have you got the latest injectors in your cave ? as its a weird one for cylinder three to keep eating your plugs like that especially denso they are tough boys, sounds like that cylinder is burning up wrong , can i suggest changing to R8 coil packs  or maybe some okadi plasma coil packs?

Edited 7 April, 2017 by thomasaspin

[thomasaspin]

also kobayashi - apparently platinum plugs don't take kindly to having the gap changed I.E buying them then setting the gap to 0.6mm, and can result in the tip/prong breaking off, possibly in the engine while you're driving mate 

 

your on a 2010 cave id make sure you have the latest injectors and spray pattern software also if your going for running big power can i suggest an upgraded high pressure fuel pump maybe cylinder three is getting starved along the common fuel rail, this is deffo either coil pack or fueling issue no way a denso should go after that few miles ..... or maybe your map is dodgy .... :( 

 

Edited 7 April, 2017 by thomasaspin

[Ootohere]

The Guys at 'Bluespark' suggested putting the Spark Plug gap to 0.6mm,  who else recommends it?

[thomasaspin]

1 minute ago, Awayoffski said:

The Guys at 'Bluespark' suggested putting the Spark Plug gap to 0.6mm,  who else recommends it?

i have mine at 0.6mm I'm just saying if you start adjusting them yourself you can cause them to prematurely fail 

[thomasaspin]

https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/faqs/spark-plug-faqs/do-i-need-to-set-the-gap-when-installing-a-new-set-of-plugs

 

intersting - Another consideration that should be taken into account is the extent of any modifications that you may have made to the engine. As an example, when you raise compression or add forced induction (a turbo system, nitrous or supercharger kit) you must reduce the gap (about .004" for every 50 hp you add). However, when you add a high power ignition system (such as those offered by MSD, Crane, Nology) you can open the gap from .002-.005".

 

[thomasaspin]

so maybe set your spark plugs to 0.58 as your running over 200bhp 

[Ootohere]

VW changed the OEM plugs as fitted, then the gap from 0.8 to 0.7.     Bluespark suggested 0.6mm with a Tuning Box,  but there have been warning on here from others about being very careful in adjusting the gap, and also checking the gap the plugs come with before fitting in case they are out, some have found them to be, 

but then careful handling is always needed to not knock a plug.

 

Trial & error & getting it wrong can become very expensive as plenty have found out over the past 7 years.

Edited 7 April, 2017 by Awayoffski

[thomasaspin]

has anyone ever tried to run spark plugs with internal capacitance ?

[thomasaspin]

2 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

VW changed the OEM plugs as fitted, then the gap from 0.8 to 0.7.     Bluespark suggested 0.6mm with a Tuning Box,  but there have been warning on here from others about being very careful in adjusting the gap, and also checking the gap the plugs come with before fitting in case they are out, some have found them to be, 

but then careful handling is always needed to to know a plug.

https://pulstar.com i find these an interesting looking spark plug 

[thomasaspin]

 

[Kobayashi]

1 hour ago, thomasaspin said:

hi mate have you got the latest injectors in your cave ? as its a weird one for cylinder three to keep eating your plugs like that especially denso they are tough boys, sounds like that cylinder is burning up wrong , can i suggest changing to R8 coil packs  or maybe some okadi plasma coil packs?

Changes made to car listed in my signature, + the 5 skoda oil fixes so Original Injectors.

 

There possibly is a problem related to cylinder 3 but the problem must have been there from the day it was manufactured (If it goes again will have to look at the injectors...) Detuning is an option but have blown NGK IR on standard map (albeit as an oil burner)

 

On another note the tuning shop has blown loads of DENSO Iridium BEFORE mapping peoples VWs Audi's and Subaru's. He did warn me at the time.....before putting the car on the ramp....these guys do know what they are doing on more expensive cars than mine, and I have more confidence in them than skoda saying 'mmm....never heard of that one before'

https://www.facebook.com/ADETuning/?ref=br_rs

 

I think ultimately unless you follow Lucifers Fix guide 100% - which in itself is expensive uprating everything even if you know what you are doing yourself) then you wont have a 100% car. Will be amazed if I get another year out of mine!

 

 

[thomasaspin]

18 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

Changes made to car listed in my signature, + the 5 skoda oil fixes so Original Injectors.

 

There possibly is a problem related to cylinder 3 but the problem must have been there from the day it was manufactured (If it goes again will have to look at the injectors...) Detuning is an option but have blown NGK IR on standard map (albeit as an oil burner)

 

On another note the tuning shop has blown loads of DENSO Iridium BEFORE mapping peoples VWs Audi's and Subaru's. He did warn me at the time.....before putting the car on the ramp....these guys do know what they are doing on more expensive cars than mine, and I have more confidence in them than skoda saying 'mmm....never heard of that one before'

https://www.facebook.com/ADETuning/?ref=br_rs

 

I think ultimately unless you follow Lucifers Fix guide 100% - which in itself is expensive uprating everything even if you know what you are doing yourself) then you wont have a 100% car. Will be amazed if I get another year out of mine!

 

 

your dicing with death there mate you might not get as lucky next time and might have spark plug going through your cylinder 

[Ootohere]

ADE Tuning might well know their stuff as plenty of other tuners of VW Group engines do but then there are plenty of CAVE engines that have died after having their maps. Obviously standard engines have died as well.

An APR Stage 1 map seems to be pretty trouble free & gives over 200 bhp without issues & with a standard engine and hardware.

Obviously if the engine has issues already then you have to tread carefully.

 

Good advice from REVO,  the only thing to say about their Stage 1 for a Twincharger is maybe avoid even if you have a sound engine.

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues 

[Kobayashi]

1 hour ago, thomasaspin said:

your dicing with death there mate you might not get as lucky next time and might have spark plug going through your cylinder 

So I will be in the same boat as everyone else then... CAVE, CTHE, map / no map, mods, no mods - Blown engine at some point -starting with plug failure. How many are there now?

 

2 tips broken for me - I been lucky, the luck will run out eventually..

No big deal, I have accepted the fate of this car. Its paid off, had my fun with it. Will run it till it does actually die....

 

I do feel sorry for those that bought 'newer' CTHE & are getting the same issue with spark plugs leading to total failure, and then the 'run around from Skoda'.

That is not right and it never was, even for the earlier CAVE owners now well out of warranty.

 

I wonder how many people with blown CTHE / CAVE /MK2 VRS are thinking if only I checked my spark plugs (before a major calamity) something you should not need to do if the design is robust enough and leave to your service schedule /garage.

 

I hope someone uses all the info on this site to get something back off VW /Skoda towards their 'horror cases'. I wont cry about it, I will gladly upload the photo's of the 'final calamity', especially if it helps someone towards their case.....

 

 

Edited 7 April, 2017 by Kobayashi

[thomasaspin]

15 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

So I will be in the same boat as everyone else then... CAVE, CTHE, map / no map, mods, no mods - Blown engine at some point -starting with plug failure. How many are there now?

 

2 tips broken for me - I been lucky, the luck will run out eventually..

No big deal, I have accepted the fate of this car. Its paid off, had my fun with it. Will run it till it does actually die....

 

I do feel sorry for those that bought 'newer' CTHE & are getting the same issue with spark plugs leading to total failure, and then the 'run around from Skoda'.

That is not right and it never was, even for the earlier CAVE owners now well out of warranty.

 

I wonder how many people with blown CTHE / CAVE /MK2 VRS are thinking if only I checked my spark plugs (before a major calamity) something you should not need to do if the design is robust enough and leave to your service schedule /garage.

 

I hope someone uses all the info on this site to get something back off VW /Skoda towards their 'horror cases'. I wont cry about it, I will gladly upload the photo's of the 'final calamity', especially if it helps someone towards their case.....

 

 

If I was you I'd upgrade coil packs to Audi R8 and make sure you have the latest coil packs because the got revised mid 2010  

try and save this engine not kill it 

Edited 8 April, 2017 by thomasaspin

[Ootohere]

?

What did the Fabia vRS get as Revised Ignition Coils in mid 2010 and who told you this?

If it is different Ignition Coils from the SEAT Cupra Twincharger from 2009 then all Skoda Fabia vRS in the UK would have them from the cars arriving in the UK. 

 

The First Fabia Mk2 vRS were only on sale from June 2010 and Brian69, NathsVRS & Me owned the first ones sold or that were media cars.

Different ECU's on our cars if you look, and Brian & myself had ones we drove with Original Engines and parts fitted.

(I have one outside now that is bog standard if you want to see what a Mid 2010 vRS engine and coils looks like, 

pretty similar to a later CAVE but there were a few changes before 2012 and the CTHE being launched.)

Edited 8 April, 2017 by Awayoffski

[thomasaspin]

3 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

?

What did the Fabia vRS get as Revised Ignition Coils in mid 2010 and who told you this?

If it is different Ignition Coils from the SEAT Cupra Twincharger from 2009 then all Skoda Fabia vRS in the UK would have them from the cars arriving in the UK. 

 

The First Fabia Mk2 vRS were only on sale from June 2010 and Brian69, NathsVRS & Me owned the first ones sold or that were media cars.

Different ECU's on our cars if you look, and Brian & myself had ones we drove with Original Engines and parts fitted.

(I have one outside now that is bog standard if you want to see what a Mid 2010 vRS engine and coils looks like, 

pretty similar to a later CAVE but there were a few changes before 2012 and the CTHE being launched.)

I meant injectors as previously stated 

[Ootohere]

Sorry missed where that was previously stated, what Injectors were changed in Fabia Mk2 vRS CAVE and when?

 

There were Euro 5 Emission Twinchargers with different power than just the SEAT 180ps on sale the year & failing before the Fabia vRS was Launched in 2010. So this stuff covers various Twinchargers from SEAT & VW.

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

Edited 8 April, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Kobayashi]

coil packs were checked and were fine 3 are still original ones. I'm sure I read about injectors being changed might not be this forum. Would be good to know that for sure. What really makes the Audi coils better? Probably made in same VW sub factory somewhere! If any coils fail will give it a try, glad I let that Ferrari behind me today go past couldn't take the pressure, lots of soft tops out today wanting to race

Edited 8 April, 2017 by Kobayashi

[Kobayashi]

so smaller gap say 0.58 0.6 would create more heat?? I think heat is now my problem, short trips so an average 6-10 ignition starts in day every day except weekend,? Always starts first Time rapid quick

[thomasaspin]

3 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

so smaller gap say 0.58 0.6 would create more heat?? I think heat is now my problem, short trips so an average 6-10 ignition starts in day every day except weekend,? Always starts first Time rapid quick

I think the cylinders running too lean

[thomasaspin]

3 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

so smaller gap say 0.58 0.6 would create more heat?? I think heat is now my problem, short trips so an average 6-10 ignition starts in day every day except weekend,? Always starts first Time rapid quick

Are you still on the standard intercooler ? 

[Kobayashi]

9 minutes ago, thomasaspin said:

Are you still on the standard intercooler ? 

yes quite expensive to upgrade these had a look at one on awesome gti. I don't drive with aircon on cool and I really notice on motorway hot air coming through the vents even if 10c outside. Oil temp is 85c to 90c. If boosting uphill it will go up to 96c then back down

[thomasaspin]

6 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

yes quite expensive to upgrade these had a look at one on awesome gti. I don't drive with aircon on cool and I really notice on motorway hot air coming through the vents even if 10c outside. Oil temp is 85c to 90c. If boosting uphill it will go up to 96c then back down

I'm running an Airtec intercooler and that keeps my intake temps low as, maybe try making an intercooler water spray , when I go for stage three I'm going to have a water spray intercooler and run watermeth to keep my cylinders as cool as possible 

[Ootohere]

Kobayashi, That indicated oil temp is OK.

You might get a few degrees lower regularly with the 5w 40 compared to 5w 30 FS Long Life.

 

I would not go to 0.6mm plug gap or less 0.7 is fine.

But then ADE Tuning are best to advise on that since they fitted the Bosch plugs.

 

thomasaspin, 

have you got stage 1 or stage 2 on your ECU yet?

What do you get on the dyno with the tuning box?

Edited 9 April, 2017 by Awayoffski