Yeti 1.2 TSI vs 2.0 TDI

[neilmacUK]

Hi there-

 

I currently drive a Ford Fusion 1.4 TDCI (for practicality reasons, rather than actually liking it!!), and get roughly 50 mpg average from it. I am hoping to change it for a Yeti after Christmas, but don't know which engine to opt for.

 

Fuel economy is a concern for all of us of course, but I am worried about the DPF issue on the diesel. I do about 10,000 miles a year, but a lot of my day to day driving is around town-I have family all over the country, so every couple of months I'll do a 3-5 hundred mile trip, hence my yearly mileage total. Like I say though, I spend a lot of time driving around town on relatively short trips.

 

My first thought was to buy the diesel, but reading about the DPF issue worries me.....I could do without any huge bills!! The DSG 'box sounds fun on the petrol too....

 

I don't know what to do!!

 

Any help/opinion would be most gratefully received!

 

Neil

[Deako80]

I commute about 45 miles every day, so the DPF doesnt bother me. On the maxidot on my motorway commute im seeing 60mpg, in fact today i got 65mpg over the 22 mile journey in my 2.0 TDI. Im showing a range of nearly 500 miles left on the tank after completing nearly 200 miles already. This is just insane to me, and i thought the car was going to be less efficient than the Audi A3 2.0 TDI it replaced, especially as my A3 was DSG and this is a manual.

 

I cant comment on the 1.2TSI, ive only driven a Golf with the engine before.

[JCP]

Hi there-

 

I currently drive a Ford Fusion 1.4 TDCI (for practicality reasons, rather than actually liking it!!), and get roughly 50 mpg average from it. I am hoping to change it for a Yeti after Christmas, but don't know which engine to opt for.

 

Fuel economy is a concern for all of us of course, but I am worried about the DPF issue on the diesel. I do about 10,000 miles a year, but a lot of my day to day driving is around town-I have family all over the country, so every couple of months I'll do a 3-5 hundred mile trip, hence my yearly mileage total. Like I say though, I spend a lot of time driving around town on relatively short trips.

 

My first thought was to buy the diesel, but reading about the DPF issue worries me.....I could do without any huge bills!! The DSG 'box sounds fun on the petrol too....

 

I don't know what to do!!

 

Any help/opinion would be most gratefully received!

 

Neil

You sound like someone who wouldn't do well with a DPF equipped diesel-and the 1.2 dsg has a lot of happy owners-if you do the sums you may well find there is no saving year on year while the diesl is capable of great fuel mileage short journeys are not what they are good at.. The lower purchase price buys a lot of miles at the differential price per mile.  

[FlintstoneR1]

Neil,

 

Although I use a CR 110 TDi Yeti myself (well, SWMBO does mostly!), we easily cover 20,000+ miles / annum with it.  No DPF issues at all so far. But 100+ mile motorway trips are regular, so wouldn't expect any. Plus daily runs are easily 15-20 miles plus, each way. I've had it since April, so this will be my first winter with the Yeti, so we'll see what effect the cold(er) starts and slower running have on the DPF.  It's a 2010 build with nearly 90k on now. 

 

Previous experience with DPF fitted cars, and with the journey pattern you describe, I'd be strongly tempted to go for the 1.2 TSi in your situation.  With or without the DSG.  Although I would traditionally expect a properly driven manual to return better mpg, with the selection options available on DSG style boxes with dual clutch, etc., then that distinction is blurred now compared to more conventional auto-boxes that lost efficiency massively with torque converters and extra weight. Other Yeti owners with the 1.2 TSi I've spoken to, do report how well it goes, suits the car and the fact in practice it's a much stronger motor than its modest capacity would suggest to oldies like myself.  Best advice would be to try one, if you can.

 

You don't mention if you would do any towing?  If the answer was yes, the pendulum might swing back towards the diesel?  Otherwise, I'd err towards the 1.2TSi. Might depend at the end of the day on what price you can get either option for?   Don't forget to factor in the differential price between petrol and diesel into your economic consideration though.  That 5 to 7ppl adds up over the year!  Would you be buying new or 2nd hand? 

[Steph64]

Had the same decision process when we bought ours. Similar useage to you. DPF stories and issues seem to grow daily across all makes so we went for the 1.2 petrol manual. Getting around 40 mpg now (worse when it was new) and last weekend did a trip across to Spain and got 45 mpg. Worse consumption was 35 mpg. I think the DSG would be better with the 1.2 as to keep it on the boil you need to change gear frequently. ( we opted for manual for later resale benefits as the French wont buy a second hand car with auto).

On the road the 1.2 drives really well, motorways too if you drive to the speed limits (that means 130kph or 80 ish mph here). Certainly powerful enough 4 up with a dog in the back and a tow bar mounted bike rack.

If you crave torque then the 1.2 is not for you.

No regrets here, other than the nagging thought that the DSG option might have been nicer.

[geordiebroon]

The same DPF story told 20 times is not 20 DPF failures. Being honest with yourself about your actual useage is the key. If in doubt get petrol.

[littleade]

Best advice is test drive both and see if they meet your requirements. The 1.2 should be good round town and will be the best option for that part but suggest you have a decent test drive with some motorway speeds/dual carriageway/ A road driving to make sure it fits your needs as a whole. The Yeti is never going to be the best choice for fuel consumption but does hold it's value well so don't forget residual values when making your decision

[Paul52]

I had the same dilemma. Twenty years of driving diesels and then the DPF issue raised its head. Like you I do around 10k miles per year, most of it short trips. All the advice i was given was that I'd do better to go to petrol. I have had my 1.2TSI 5 months now, done4000 miles and I'm getting a shade short of 40mpg consistently (I check brim-to-brim) compared to around 45mpg from my previous diesel. I find the engine perfectly acceptable for my needs - keeps up with the flow on motorways, drives smoothly in town etc. but I don't tow so can't comment on that.

 

The slightly lower mpg I can offset against the lower purchase price and not having to worry about regenerating the PDF. As always the best advice is try and arrange a decent test drive covering a reasonable distance and the sort of traffic conditions you expect to drive in.

[The Plumber]

The Yeti 1.2TSI DSG would get my vote based on the information supplied in your post. Nice smooth engine with an almost seamless gear-shift system. Driven both the Yeti and Octavia II with this combination and very impressed with the set-up.

 

Have diesel myself purely for economy with the 4x4 option, otherwise I'd have the TSI.

 

 

TP

[neilmacUK]

Thanks everyone for your responses! Really helpful. I guess most diesels these days have DPF? Diesel is more attractive to me given the extra MPG..but sounds like I might run into trouble with my general round town mileage (a lot of 8 mile round trips).

 

Now..should I prefer the DSG over manual, or just maybe consider it based on the oportunity at the time (Model, price etc-I would like the SE model or above). I think I would be looking at a 2011 model. Are mileage issues on a petrol a concern these days, or are they just a durable a diesels now? I was thinking of maybe trying to find one with less than 20k, on a budget of about 14,000. 

[Brijo]

...Now..should I prefer the DSG over manual, ....

 

Although it's a rarely mentioned factor in making this decision, you really should remember that the DSG offers significantly improved MPG for the driver's left arm and leg

[johnover]

Although it's a rarely mentioned factor in making this decision, you really should remember that the DSG offers significantly improved MPG for the driver's left arm and leg

 

I agree. All my cars of the last 30+ years have been automatics: various makes in UK and USA with traditional torque converter, continuously variable transmissions and now, for the first time, a DSG. Recently bought a one year old Yeti 1.2 TSI with DSG box and I think it is the best automatic I have ever had: near seamless changes through the 7 gears without the losses of a torque converter and the engine revving of a CVT.

 

I do a lot of shorter journeys and less than 10K miles per year total on road with no towing so chose petrol rather than diesel and found the 1.2 engine surprisingly good (old school thinking: 1.2 is tiny). The only aspect I'm having to learn is how to handle what I guess is the turbo lag on starting from rest - I tend to overdo the throttle and there is a sudden surge (OK and responsive once on the move)!

 

Overall I think the 1.2 TSI with DSG is a great combination for my needs - very pleased.

[spottydog]

Looking through past threads the diesels seem to get mid 40's mpg and the 1.2 whether manual or dsg around 40 so you'd only gain 6mpg. I doubt around town you would get anywhere near mid 40's. I pick up my 1.2 dsg on Monday and was pleasantly surprised with the performance and the gearbox although I've only had a test drive. 

[marcusthehat]

AS a complete "dieseldogg" and currently three years into 1.6TDI/DSG ownership, without DPF related issues.

I think in the circumstances the OP describes.

A 1.2DSG is the best fit.

Since in the treee years of ownership our milage has dramatically shrunk, I would probably seriously consider a petrol next time around.

regards

Marcus

[FlintstoneR1]

...Are mileage issues on a petrol a concern these days, or are they just a durable a diesels now? ...

IMO there's very little to choose on durability. Petrol's are built to much higher material specs these days.   

Advice for both though is to be wary of exceptionally LOW mileage cars for year.  Not because the mileage has been "adjusted", but because of risk of that short trip journey pattern mentioned earlier, coupled with long oil change intervals.  In short: 

- low mileage due to not a lot of use = fine (but watch out for stuck brake calipers, pistons, etc.)

- low mileage due to frequent short trips = be very wary unless oil change intervals also drastically reduced to well under 10k miles to suit. Applies even more to diesel, but to a lesser extent also to a petrol with turbo for some of the same reasons (e.g. sludge build up in oil ways leading to premature failure of turbo bearings, etc.).

- medium-high mileage due to lots of motorway driving = probably the best pick as those are the "easiest" miles of all for the car and its systems.

 

For example: I had the choice of two diesel Yeti back in April:

-  3 years old and 80K, 1 owner, known lots of motorway. S+. 18K service intervals.

-  3 years old and 30K, SE, 2 owners, suspected lots of short trips from other indications. SE. 18K service intervals.

I chose the 80K car, but with a new clutch, DMF & cam belt included - and haven't been disappointed so far......

The 30K car stuck on the dealer's forecourt for another 4 months. Reason he gave on asking: "not enough miles". :think:

But I admit the 30K car was also an unpopular colour with SWMBO - green.

[Shanco]

Thanks everyone for your responses! Really helpful. I guess most diesels these days have DPF? Diesel is more attractive to me given the extra MPG..but sounds like I might run into trouble with my general round town mileage (a lot of 8 mile round trips).

 

Now..should I prefer the DSG over manual, or just maybe consider it based on the oportunity at the time (Model, price etc-I would like the SE model or above). I think I would be looking at a 2011 model. Are mileage issues on a petrol a concern these days, or are they just a durable a diesels now? I was thinking of maybe trying to find one with less than 20k, on a budget of about 14,000.

Just put my 11 plate Tangerine 1.2TSI with 13,200 miles in for a new Adventure. It's at Sinclair Skoda, Swansea and averaged 40.1 mpg over the last 10,000 miles. It's in superb condition - why not give Brian Thomas a ring on 01792 797500 and see if it fits your bill?

[neilmacUK]

Shanco..I'd love one that colour! It'll be after Christmas though, so not ready just yet! 

 

So..sounds like petrol might be the one to go for then.....

 

Anyone on here who has a diesel and use it for short journeys like I would? Interested if it's just the horror stories that you hear, or weather it would be a very real concern (DPF filter)?

[marcusthehat]

Most of my driving is now (moreso)short runs.

3 miles to work.

3 miles home for lunch

3 miles back to work

3 miles back home

Multiple 1, 2, 3 and 4 mile runs during the day with a 20 mile round trip being exceptional.

Most weekends the car does not stir.

Occassional , once a month wwkend runs over the mountain to visit Mum, about 23 there and a few hours later 23 back.

Perhaps every 3 months a hundred mile round trip to Belfast.

Sometimes a Sunday afternoon pootle to Portstewart for an icecream.

I very occassionally notice a "regen" at work, a "hot" smell.

But never any warning lights or other signs.

I do wonder though, does my very relaxed driving style have any bearing on this, in that if I only ever use low revs, with liesurly acceleration, courtsey of the DSG gear box, surely I should be dumping less soot into the exhaust.

Could this be correct?

However the brand new automatic 1.7 diesel Meriva was a proper pig in the 3 months I ran it a couple of year ago.

Endlessly flashing the DPF symbol, and needing "thrashing" for miles and miles and miles to get it cleared.

I do believe the VW 1.6 TDI DFP is one of the better installations across the manufacturers.

regards

marcus

[kibby]

Completely confused on the DPF issue and thats after talking to many dealers and across makes.

Advice ranged from "I won't sell you a diesel" to " I only drive 2 miles each way to work in mine across town and never have a problem".

 

Who do you believe? Being the conservative wary type and only doing 10k a year have stuck with

the 1.2tsi.

Sedate driver and get long term (28k miles) about 39mpg with DSG box.

 

Also problems that can occur with Dual Mass Flywheels and costs associated put me off taking a chance.

 

Had some problems with DSG (mainly unresolved) and other irritating engine issues so not completely convinced on the Yeti's long term reliability. Could jump ship if alternative came along (hasn't happened yet!)

Edited 19 October, 2013 by kibby

[dbg400]

I do a very similar set of short runs - 3 miles to & from work twice a day, with a few morning school runs a week adding 17 miles. However I rarely do anything shorter than the 3 miles, and I do motorway runs of 50+ miles at least once a month, and shorter 12 miles runs four times a week. Average mpg over 17,000 miles in just over 16 months is 41.5, so not far off the figures for a 1.2 TSI. It would be higher but I occasionally make more use of the 170 HP available and that has a noticeable effect on the economy I suspect I wouldn't get the 40 mpg if I had the TSI instead...

 

My previous Octy, a 110 TDi, easily had enough oomph for at least 95% of my driving, and the 170 only fills in a couple more %. If I did any less mileage I'd be happy enough with the 1.2, particularly if it was the DSG.

[carisbrook]

I've had my 170 for three years now and mainly do short runs and in between some longer journeys much like OP.

Can only recall one Regen in that time,with no problems at all.

I think the longer runs on the motorway help.

[Agerbundsen]

I have 65000 miles on my 170 TDI in four years of ownership. Most frequent trip is 3 miles to town and back with a few 30+mile trips to a larger town, plus monthly longer trips and annual trek to Spain and back. Aprat from a failed pressure sensor, which has no relation to the driving style, the engine has never set a foot wrong.  It does regenerate occasionally, but never in limp home mode.

[Expatman]

I have a 1.2 Tsi with DSG and drive approx 10,000 miles a year. Generally a mix of short journeys, weekly 20 mile runs and occasional 100 mile+ motorway drives. Over the 19 months I have owned my Yeti I have averaged nearly 41 MPG without any problems at all. Petrol 1.2 is quiet, smooth and plenty of power for normal driving styles - including motorway cruising at 70+. I previously drove an Octavia 2.0 diesel DSG because my mileage was 17,000+ per year and it was a great car but the petrol Yeti is so much quieter to drive and, of course, doesn't have the DPF and other potential problems associated with ever more complex diesel engines.

My driving seems similar to NeilMacUK so my vote goes for the 1.2 - at 10,000 miles per year it would be worth doing a financial analysis to see if the higher upfront cost is ever balanced by the better fuel consumption of the diesel. In my case I think it would take 5+ years to theoretically break even - and that assumed no adverse repair costs. Also remember that the 'wet' 6 speed DSG needs an oil & filter change regularly at £200+ per time while the 'dry' 7 speed DSG used with the 1.2 needs no such maintenance.

[Truthseeker]

I have a 1.2 Tsi with DSG and drive approx 10,000 miles a year. Generally a mix of short journeys, weekly 20 mile runs and occasional 100 mile+ motorway drives. Over the 19 months I have owned my Yeti I have averaged nearly 41 MPG without any problems at all. Petrol 1.2 is quiet, smooth and plenty of power for normal driving styles - including motorway cruising at 70+. I previously drove an Octavia 2.0 diesel DSG because my mileage was 17,000+ per year and it was a great car but the petrol Yeti is so much quieter to drive and, of course, doesn't have the DPF and other potential problems associated with ever more complex diesel engines.

My driving seems similar to NeilMacUK so my vote goes for the 1.2 - at 10,000 miles per year it would be worth doing a financial analysis to see if the higher upfront cost is ever balanced by the better fuel consumption of the diesel. In my case I think it would take 5+ years to theoretically break even - and that assumed no adverse repair costs. Also remember that the 'wet' 6 speed DSG needs an oil & filter change regularly at £200+ per time while the 'dry' 7 speed DSG used with the 1.2 needs no such maintenance.

May thanks for a honest overview of the 1.2TSI Expatman.

 

Suffice to say that after reading this, I have just changed my order from a 140 TDI 4x4  DSG, to a 1.2TSI DSG, as I don't really need a diesel or 4x4 (got a bit carried away I think), as only do about 7500 miles pa and never go off road, and as I am retired, I don't really need to drive if the roads are bad (snow/ice etc).

 

Although, If Skoda did a 1.2TSI 4x4 DSG that would be great.

 

Thanks for saving me around £4k though! 

[docc]

May thanks for a honest overview of the 1.2TSI Expatman.

 

Suffice to say that after reading this, I have just changed my order from a 140 TDI 4x4  DSG, to a 1.2TSI DSG, as I don't really need a diesel or 4x4 (got a bit carried away I think), as only do about 7500 miles pa and never go off road, and as I am retired, I don't really need to drive if the roads are bad (snow/ice etc).

 

Although, If Skoda did a 1.2TSI 4x4 DSG that would be great.

 

Thanks for saving me around £4k though! 

Your thinking's much in line with mine.  Had diesels for a long time now, but pre-DPF and no problem at all.  Our driving pattern would mean making special long journeys to keep the DPF happy, and having tried the 1.2TSI I'm amazed at how good it is.  Certainly more than enough for our needs, and by comparison with the alternatives it's a very well priced car.