if have or are considering removing your DPF

[@Lee]

So glad I bought one of the last 1.9tdi with no DPF

+1, and a completely bullet proof to-the-moon-and-back engine

 

My next used car will almost certainly be a low miler Fabia 3 (elegance if you like) 1.9TDi wagon

[@Lee]

If your DPF needs to regen all you need to do is go for a few miles up the motorway in 4th gear at 70 mph, or you can clear it by sitting with your foot on the accelerator and holding it there for several minutes.

 

 Best way to clear it is to go for a run in the car and do not use the top two gears, allow the engine to rev at 3000 rpm and above for a length of time for the regen to happen, then drive home again.  

I've found the best way to keep it clean and no regen (with SWMBO's Yeti, 2.0 TDi CR) is to not change up when the maxidot tells you to.

[philhoward]

I have to thank Estate Man for clarifying the reasons for the DPF in another thread some time ago - to my mind anyway.  I wasn't aware of these nano-particles that the CR diesels produce until he posted a quite in-depth explanation.  I think the discussion at the time also pointed at the fact that the DPF technology might not yet be at its final incarnation either so currently we do have this issue of regens in some cases.  Maybe we will see the (re)introduction of additive fluids for regens (like the first PSA HDI engines had in some incarnations - possibly only the first 2.2?) to aid the process?  If I've got my wires crossed on this (diesel technology isn't my forte), then I'll admit my lack of knowledge being a factor.

 

Based on what I've picked up so far, DPF removal is bloody irresponsible first and foremost - as inconvenient as the current DPFs might be in some cases.  I'll do my part by not having a diesel for as long as possible and sticking with petrol..

Edited 13 December, 2013 by philhoward

[PDIBK]

I don't know enough and can't be bothered to check.

I've had my CR for 18 months, I've had one forced regen (2 days old, wife driving in an urban traffic jam) and one coil light waring that purported to be an ecu problem, but it disappeared after I arrived at my destination (not long after it appeared).

I have no intention of removing it, in the same way I probably wouldn't remove a catalytic converter from a petrol car. I have a limited knowledge I n that, but frequently read about performance loons removing the cat from their exhaust to free up an extra 5bhp. Seriously? What's the FRIKKING point? 5bhp... Just lose your spare wheel, equally as pointless a thing to not have on your car...or remove the exhaust completely. Or here's an idea, buy a car with 5bhp more in the first place - it's not Gran Turismo, you don't take a lap time for the commute, probably don't drag race away from the lights and so does an extra couple of bhp matter?

Getting a remap I can understand - for a minimal outlay, you add a significant chunk of power that might just make your car as good as the next model up engine wise. But removing something that's there for a purpose? Bound to have pitfalls...

Rant over, I'm out,

[Gazbull17]

Ditto, it's there for a reason, the ECU adjusts accordingly so it's not really sapping performance anyway.

Like PDIBK says, just buy a more powerful car instead of buying a car you knew only had 105bhp.

[trepsenishti]

I have an octavia 1.6 tdi cr estate. dpf light on dash comes up every week.

what is the best way?

1/to delete dpf?

2/shall i complain to skoda uk abt these global problem?

3/can i manually clean it jet wash it?

[xman]

2

 

It could be that the dpf has reached the end of its useful life (around 100k-150k miles normally) and you need a new one. Or it might just be a faulty dpf pressure sensor.

[Guest]

2

 

It could be that the dpf has reached the end of its useful life (around 100k-150k miles normally) and you need a new one. Or it might just be a faulty dpf pressure sensor.

 

+1

 

Or it could also be that your current journey's are not quite fast enough or long enough to get the dpf hot enough to burn clean. Lots of traffic driving in town is not quite so good for the dpf's or if you are forced to drive at reduced speed or revs for long periods. Under those conditions you may need to take the car for a short drive at higher speeds or revs to clear the dpf. Or as xmans say, there could be a glitch in your system that is making the light come on.

[RedSooty]

dpf has come on twice for me in 2.5 yrs with my 105 cr monte carlo. First one due to being in slow traffic. Went off on its own when jam cleared and went back to normal driving (cold damp day). Second time was also a cold damp day after 25 mins motorway cruise then hit town traffic - light came on. Held at 2.5k revs for a few minutes - clearly dpf heated up enough to regen - small engine stutter - light out and no issues since. If the dpf failed it would be tempting to consider removal due to high replacement cost but would probably stump up the cash and replace. Note - unlike many others my 1996 Skyline still has a fitted and functioning cat - as the few extra hp aren't worth the extra MOT emissions worries.

[xman]

Yes, but there has been a massive increase in nano air particulates from cr diesel engines and a corresponding increase in associated lung disease. This is Europe wide. Diesel engine particulate make up by far the majority of the muck we all breath each day (source: Environment agency). Governments therefore are determined to do two things: 1. Introduce new emission technology for diesels. Its already done and dusted and on its way. 2. Make it impossible to get away with tampering with emission control equipment. Done by better in depth testing, and massive penalties for those that do. I must say its long overdue.

 

It appears to me that, judging by those I see accelerating away from the local roundabout with obviously tuned and dpf less engines, that more pollution is caused by just one of these cars than around 100 unmodified cars (judging from the smoke, never mind invisible PM's). 

 

What would our air quality and health be like today without catalytic converters or if we still used leaded petrol?

[Guest]

Totally agree xman. Any dpf removed car is a complete menace to public health...and the message is slow to get through to some it seems. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh to the uninformed but it really is a menace to everyone and far worse than breathing in someone's cigarette smoke as a BBC tv program highlighted. The other point, there really is no good reason to remove one even if you go for a higher tuning level. Mostly, if you tune the motor with a good chip and map the dpf functions better and you still get good power. If someone want's even more power, get a bigger engine!

 

PS. Merry Christmas everyone...

[MattGreen]

It depends on whether or not you take into account the fossil fuels burnt in order to mine and process all of the precious metals contained within the cats... like all "green" things I believe it to be a double edged sword.

I think the best thing for the environment would be for everyone to drive around in cars built in the 80's rather than buying new, but where's the fun in that? I think the carbon footprint and global impact would be reduced if we massively scaled back production and focused on maintaining old vehicles, there's no money in that though.

 

Sorry for off topic.

 

Drive it like you stole it for 20 mins to see if the DPF light turns off?

[Hudson1]

Spoke with a good friend of mine who owns a garage and knows lots of MOT station ' bods ', as of today they have received no instructions for the govt on what the hell they are mean to do next year, the test, at the moment, could only be a visual one as it would take a while to be able to invest in new testing equipment for the detection of particulates, so if some of you have had it removed then as long as a link pipe has not been put in and the internal DPF has simply been knocked out you should be ok...... for now, if in the years ahead they do introduce actual testing kit.... well, your done for of course.

 

I can see a number of cars being px'd at dealers due to this, with all the follow on issues when those dealers come to sell them on and then the same cars needing an MOT !!! It won't be long before the dealers catch on to this, which i am sure will happen given the cost of re-installing the DPF.

[gadgetman]

Some dealers are checking for DPF removal before accepting a trade in.

They're not stupid enough to be left with a lemon that a customer may make them pay for selling a car with no DPF.

Anyone hoping a px is the answer is in for a shock

[trickyhicky]

I don't have a DPF (thankfully), can't think how I would deal with it on the roads of South Lincolnshire where we have no dual carriageways and a dismal road network where you can rarely get over 40mph. Average speed on the trip computer sits around 30mph average except for 2 weeks a year when we go on holiday (on some proper roads). Usually struggle through the emissions test  due to the engine never getting a chance to "work" properly (and that's with just a cat). I think the government need to get their priorities in the right order and stop bowing down to the tree huggers in Brussels.

[Hudson1]

I don't like DPF's as well but all govt's have to take action in the best interests of the whole country..... if not, then slavery would still be allowed, smoking in pubs, child labour etc.

 

Eventually (if we want to stick with diesel cars) we will all have to have cars with DPFs, as the older engines will simply get too old and the only things available to buy will be DPF equipped cars..... or go to petrol of course, but then it only makes sense to get a low capacity one (fuel economy), so its a bitter pill to swallow.

[Ootohere]

Germany might be putting pressure on other countries to delay the 2020 introduction on vehicle Emissions,

but the Euro 6 ones are still on track

& the UK is still going to have to meet some changes and token gestures on Diesels and testing is an easy one to make out they are acting on.

 

Not long until OBD plugging in and checking against the Manufacturers declared figures are required in UK MOT's.

That is unless the UK votes on coming out of the EU. 

But that is unlikely.

[Brimma]

So let's just recap

 

In the beginning there were diesels, which have been on the go for years without any hint at a health risk

 

Then along came DPFs, which apparently make emissions cleaner, but probably cost a lot more to produce, don't last indefinitely, and create instant death if removed

 

 

 

So why don't we just tell the manufacturers to ditch DPFs, and go back to good old-fashioned diesels, which don't cost an arm and a leg if something goes wrong?

[Guest]

Hi Brimma, yeah...but not quite as simple as that. The diesels of yesteryear were mostly OK but not as powerful, clean or economical as today's CR engines. That black smoke we all hated looked bad and was indeed a pollution nightmare, but actually wasn't too harmful to our lungs as the soot particulates were large and easily self cleaned from our lungs. However, something needed to be done about the mess coming from these engines and they needed more power too. The modern diesel injects fuel at very high pressure using dynamic sequential pulse mapping for very clean quieter burning at high combustion pressures. This giving huge economy, and massive power output compared to older oil burners. This all transformed the diesel to the beast we know today.

The one major drawback is the now very fine particulate matter emmitted from exhausts that is proving so lethal to lungs and caused by the very high combustion pressures of CR engines. Older engines did not produce this type of fine matter in any real quantity. The only way to deal with it is with dpf's to filter it and burn it up. Let's not forget many cars now have a combined CAT & DPF and the combination of the two works well. Euro 6 diesels will have much bigger CATS designed to remove more of the harmful gases. So, anyone removing the dpf is likely to be removing the cat as well. Really not good and rightly should be a serious offence.

[Brimma]

Hi Brimma, yeah...but not quite as simple as that. The diesels of yesteryear were mostly OK but not as powerful, clean or economical as today's CR engines. That black smoke we all hated looked bad and was indeed a pollution nightmare, but actually wasn't too harmful to our lungs as the soot particulates were large and easily self cleaned from our lungs. However, something needed to be done about the mess coming from these engines and they needed more power too. The modern diesel injects fuel at very high pressure using dynamic sequential pulse mapping for very clean quieter burning at high combustion pressures. This giving huge economy, and massive power output compared to older oil burners. This all transformed the diesel to the beast we know today.

The one major drawback is the now very fine particulate matter emmitted from exhausts that is proving so lethal to lungs and caused by the very high combustion pressures of CR engines. Older engines did not produce this type of fine matter in any real quantity. The only way to deal with it is with dpf's to filter it and burn it up. Let's not forget many cars now have a combined CAT & DPF and the combination of the two works well. Euro 6 diesels will have much bigger CATS designed to remove more of the harmful gases. So, anyone removing the dpf is likely to be removing the cat as well. Really not good and rightly should be a serious offence.

 

It's maybe a shame that car manufacturers aren't obliged to warn purchasers of a modern-day diesel that their DPF is likely to need replacing after 120k-150k miles, when the car is likely to be out of warranty, at a cost of £x thousand pounds

[trickyhicky]

I may be wrong but does a DPF not just save up all the soot and particulate and blow it all out the back in one dirty great black cloud of muck? I have followed a few late model cars that have done this as soon as they get to a reasonable bit of road.

[Ootohere]

No a hot DPF burns the soot to a fine ash, it is supposed to trap soot, then burn it,

and if not it because it was not up to heat the soot has built up and getting to blocking point, it goes into Regeneration to get the DPF hot enough to do that.

Wasting Fuel while doing it.

But then also, people remove the Innards of a DPF, others do EGR Valve Removal etc,  turn up Fuel pumps etc.

& some engines are just still soot blasters.

 

Follow a mk2 vRS (Petrol) and you might get a big puff of black smoke fired at you as well, as it opens up.

[OzFabia]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/262537/direct-injection-petrol-engines-produce-1000-times-particles-older-engines-study/

[CRASH67]

The problem with DPFs is the manufacturers and dealers not fully explaining DPFs when they were being introduced, and explining the implications on this part if a diesel car wasn't driven in the right manor.

In the last few years with fuel rising people have been blinded by MPG figures.

The simple facts are as well all know now.

If you doing heavily milages gets a diesel, pottering around town for the shopping and school runs get a petrol.

If your doing long journeys regularly with DPF other then it regenerating every so often you properly wouldn't even notice it .

If you doing shorter runs you then may get a warning light, this is car telling you it needs to driven in the correct conditions to allow it to regen.

I

[Hudson1]

Yep your right of course its just that most of the general public that do not have the inclination to joing forums such as these, where their car is simply that ' A CAR ' well they are clueless to all this..... although the dealers are aware to look for a cars DPF being removed when it comes in as a PX, are the public or private buyers aware ? I bet they are not, go forward a year or two, an MOT is due on your DPF car (you removed it before the MOT regs), no dealer wil take it.... sell it on ebay or autotrader to some poor mug who will simply not a have a clue, it will happen i am sure.