Just wondered if a top end rebuild was reasonable to expect an engine which has covered just over 41k miles?!

 

Car was misfiring a certain 3rd gear low revs when accelarating (petrol VRS Octavia). The garage diagnosis was the cylinders are very badly coked up / carbonised due to unburnt fuel. Ultimately, this means a ‘top end rebuild’ – not technically minded but did catch it involves a lot of replacement “valves, cylinders, seals” mentioned. I’m just really p*ssed as apparently as Skoda UK doesn’t view this as a warrantied mechanical failure but normal wear and tear. :wonder:

 

I don’t agree that it’s normal for an engine to gum up with just over 41k on the clock regardless of age. Skoda UK insisted it’s down to driving style – too many short journeys. Strange how dozens of other cars I’ve owned doing the same type of driving haven’t had this problem (short commutes during the week then hours of motorway runs at weekend). I've owner dozens of different brands over the years and not one engine repair.

 

If these engines (top VAG engineering) can’t cope with town driving then surely part of the annual servicing should include some sort of preventative engine flush / fuel additive - although I thought that's what running it on super unleaded was for.  Although the car will doubtless be running great once repaired it’s difficult to have faith in a product that seems so easily broken, regardless of the number of expensive new parts fitted.

 

I was sniffing around the new VRS just before this happened but really not so sure it’s the right combination now.  I thought I’d dabble with my first Skoda by buying via the Skoda Approved scheme, just to see how it went. Found a good condition low mileage example (20k originally – I’ve put another 21k on in 2yrs of ownership). It has been excellent for 2years until now, really not impressed that it’s so fragile.

 

Have to add that that the Skoda garage I’m using for servicing / maintenance has been brilliant. It has been the only good thing in all this – dealing with mechanics and a customer service team that actually give a toss about customers when issues arise. An absolute rarity these days.

Sounds like could have been caused by timing chain slip, Skoda just coming up with a new term for it, look here...

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/

Does the car ever get revved up?

 

Ours gets very smoky after a while of steady town and motorway. A quick thrash in sport mode clears it out and it's clean as a whistle.

 

Either that or above... your chain has slipped in which case Skoda need to foot the bill.

 

Phil

Thanks for this information, I wasn't aware of the timing belt slip - it had been changed just before I bought the car as part of routine maintenance so I don't expected that component to fail. The garage seems 100% sure it's not that (they lurk on Briskoda which is cool) and also Skoda UK's warranty engineer agrees (he would though!). I might go back to the dealer with this information - just to ensure they are aware of this issue and whether it could be argued this contributed to the problem.

The engine failures thread concerns the TSI engine which has a timing chain. I assume that yours is TFSI given that you have had timing belt changed.

Sorry, should have added it's a TFSI - too busy typing out a big whinge!!  However, I've had nothing but good things to say about the car until now (colleagues have went to Skoda as they were so impressed with mine even though it was a used purchase) and I've no reason not to believe the main dealer diagnosis.

 

The main issue is the failure in the first place with such a low mileage - fully Skoda approved, full health check before I could extend the warranty, full Skoda scheduled servicing and yet Skoda UK insist it's my driving style - and yes, annoyed too that I'm looking at quite a large bill.

 

Can these engines really expire so easily - should I really have to drive it like it's stolen every day and ensure my commute is at least 20miles to warm it up properly? Not one other car I've owned has been as fragile - I expected far more from it (and more of a goodwill contribution to soften the blow). Of course maybe this is a sign that I should have bought that new VRS that I keep looking at in the showroom!

I personally think your dealer is talking b******s and I would not accept the engine to be so dirty after 40k to require full replacement. I think you need to push for a more detailed justification, and evidence. It's easy to inspect the inside of the intake system and cylinders so get them to show you, and challenge them to prove it's not a result of some other faulty component.

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Yeah, I still think somethings wrong with this but I've tried to push as much as possible. Why is the fuel not burning properly that it gums the cylinders / valves - I think that suggests a mechanical problem but not being mechanically gifted (if there's not a picture on Google I'm lost!) then I've more or less got to accept both the dealer and Skoda UK engineer explanations. I could arrange for an independent inspection but that's further time, money and hassle that possibly might confirm the same diagnosis .... perhaps a genuine case of bad luck / or crap engine build from the factory.

 

So where's the post saying that'll teach me for not buying brand new?! 

Is ther car still under warranty then?

 

Phil

I'd go somewhere else. If nothing else it's worth getting a second opinion.

Misfire could be something much simpler - new plugs/coils would be a cheap thing to replace if nothing else it would rule those out. Do you know when the plus were last changed?

2yrs extended warranty as it was sold under the official Skoda approved vehicle scheme - obviously not the same as the standard 3yr. The garage should be calling back soon with an update on when the car will be ready - I'll maybe ask for a copy of the engineers report.

 

Honestly, the best car I've had for 2 blemish free years and then 'kaboom'. 

Carbon build up on any direct injection petrol engine is reasonably common. Lack of fuel wash is the issue.

This really should be covered under warranty.

 

I would really be pushing for a warranty claim.

 

They need to porve that driving style can damage a car of this age and mileage so much.

 

Phil

I'd go somewhere else. If nothing else it's worth getting a second opinion.

Misfire could be something much simpler - new plugs/coils would be a cheap thing to replace if nothing else it would rule those out. Do you know when the plus were last changed?

 

 

Coil packs had all been replaced, didn't work. If plugs were due to be changed following service schedule then they should have been - haven't scrimped on any servicing.

 

I spoke with my local indy (who has serviced my other cars) and based on a simple verbal description he immeditely came up with the same diagnosis as the garage. Seems to be more common than I expected but funnily enough, more common with VAG products. Interesting. Ultimately, I'm going to have to pay up to get the car back - can't take it anywhere else for a 2nd opinion as it's in pieces to get where we are just now!

 

However, felt this was worth posting anyway just for information.

Sounds like a you have the bane of the first raft of DI Petrol Engines to me - just google RS4 Carbon for a whole host of info on the subject.

 

I would expect it to be covered myself if I had a Skoda used car warranty, certainly isn't wear and tear maintenance - more a design flaw.

 

There is some talk of newer DI engines having an extra injector to periodically clean the intake.

This really should be covered under warranty.

 

I would really be pushing for a warranty claim.

 

They need to porve that driving style can damage a car of this age and mileage so much.

 

Phil

 

Evidently Skoda seems to think my 'driving style' is sh!t therefore I shouldn't have been allowed to own a VRS Octavia in the first place - all my fault. Perhaps there should be a test to prove worthiness of taming such a monster of a car.

 

Seriously, I really pushed on the warranty not being a wear n tear but SUK wouldn't back down - their engineer looked at all the affected parts and 100% backed the diagnosis of carbon built up due to rich running (which is due to too many stop/start journey's). Yeah, I think it's still a load of guff based on the low miles but I'd like to think / hope I'm not getting the shaft. The dealer has been great with other things over the last 2years of servicing and I've had other minor warranty work approved so it's not as if there's a track record of getting money for nothing.

 

Just hope when I get the car back that it works. Then the decision whether to keep or ditch asap. Joke is, it'll still have warranty until June! Just not for fuel sludge obviously.

Does it say in the handbook the car is not suitable for start stop driving?

Does the wording in the warranty say that stop start driving invalidates it?

If it doesn't I would be thinking of at least a call to citizens advice or a solicitor.

Unless of course you have been using it as a taxi or a delivery van in which case that is likely excluded from the warranty.

Doing 10k a year is not exactly just pooling around town....

There is some talk of newer DI engines having an extra injector to periodically clean the intake.

Toyota have run their DI petrols like this for a while.

Certainly the v8 in the RS4 seems greatly affected by this issue as well as the lower capacity VAG motors.

Have u tried an Italian tune up

if i was you i'd have been on the phone to citizens advice by now. 

 

Skoda uk, imo, have proved to produce some appauling customer service. Whats even worse is the amount of money you seem to have spend on services etc with skoda

If the PCV valve is knackered it will allow even more oily fumes into the intake and in combination with the way direct injection works means the valves get the carbon build up baked on. I would have thought its probably the valves and intake manifold need cleaning up, rather than a full top end rebuild. I had the intake cleaned up at 40k miles, it cost a few hundred £'s. Someone on herehere had it much worse and ended up spending several thousand!

How old is the car?

 

How much has the engine rebuild cost?

 

Sometimes it is worth being slightly economical with the truth. Sure the car gets used infrequently but when it is used it's only for long runs.

 

I'd have been tempted to chop the car in with the misfire, then it would have been Skoda's problem.

Timing chain slip... almost insignificant in the grand scheme of things, tens of thousand engines produced.. scaremongering of the highest order!

If in doubt then get a warranty and lets all move on :-)

Not helpful now I know but this is the reason why I use Shell Nitro + in the tank rather than anything else from a supermarket or other branded fuel.  Either that or a drop of Millers fuel additive to help keep things clean.

 

I am shocked as to why an engine with so few miles needs this work though.  If the car is warmed up and used rather than just run 1 mile a day say, I would be thinking is there something wrong somewhere.  I know the TFSi is prone to this, TSi as well but less so.

 

I have heard of carbon build up on other engines from other manufactures.

Millers + italian tune?

 

Worth a go I'd have thought.

 

Warm it through, find a quiet road and pretend you stole it.

Edited 9 January, 201412 yr by Aspman