Thanks Coops.

 

5.1.4 says that you must not flow more than 100kg of fuel in a period of 60 minutes. It does not say that you may not flow 1.1kg for a period of 36s. If the intent of the rule had been that you must not flow more than 1kg for any period of 36s, or 100g for any period of 3.6s or whatever trickier combination of mass and time you want, then the rule should have cited that unit time period and the relevant mass.

I think the interpretation is the same as for speeding, e.g. your speed was measured at a particular point at say 34mph, thereby breaking the 30mph limit, not that you did 34 miles in one hour.

It's the same with 5.1.3 which states that crank speed can't exceed 15000rpm. I don't think anyone would assume that means the engine could rev to an equivalent of 16000rpm for 30 seconds as long as it revs to only 14000rpm for the other 30 seconds.

 

The other thing about this breach of regs is that RB choose to ignore an opportunity the FIA gave them during the race to change the fuel flow to become compliant (item 9). I can't imagine the FIA are going to be lenient on RB for ignoring their guidance.

 

As Oli3000 said, knowing the performance difficulties RB were/are suffering, it's little surprise that they decided to bend the rules 'til breaking point. They have history on bending FIA rules beyond the point of recovery.

Guys, if you don't already realise this, check older threads to see how likely it is that I would defend Vermillian Male Bovine.

Vermillian Male Bovine.

 

Or Angry Cow as textfromdog had it

Red Bull have lodged their appeal over the Disqualification of Ricciardo's car at the Australian GP and Christian Horner is confident that they were correct not to use the FIA approved sensor. 

I wonder if they will be using the FIA approved sensor at the Malaysian GP? 

They have too - simple as. For too long RB have been taking the rules to the limit, too far in some cases.

 

You can imagine it now can't you "sorry our car is too wide but we don't trust the FIA tape measure so we used our own"

They have too - simple as. For too long RB have been taking the rules to the limit, too far in some cases.

 

You can imagine it now can't you "sorry our car is too wide but we don't trust the FIA tape measure so we used our own"

But then so have other teams when at the top.  Ferrari, Mclaren etc etc.  Even more so when they slide from the top.

 

So it's not entirely fair IMO to blame RB for following in well trodden footsteps.

But then so have other teams when at the top. Ferrari, Mclaren etc etc. Even more so when they slide from the top.

So it's not entirely fair IMO to blame RB for following in well trodden footsteps.

It's the arrogance from RB in this instance. The stewards were giving them the chance to correct the fuel flow rate during the race and they ignored them. Perhaps the stewards should have black flagged the car.

It's the arrogance from RB in this instance. The stewards were giving them the chance to correct the fuel flow rate during the race and they ignored them. Perhaps the stewards should have black flagged the car.

But are drivers black flagged for driving back to the pits with wheels and tyres falling off when that is also an offence under the FIA rules?

But are drivers black flagged for driving back to the pits with wheels and tyres falling off when that is also an offence under the FIA rules?

Not usually, because they are making their way back to the pits. Cars can be black flagged if they are in a dangerous state, with either parts hanging off or leaking oil etc. In these cases the stewards tell the team to pull the car off of the track, if the team ignores them then they are black flagged.

Ok, I've come up with a rule which actually says what the FIA claims that their rule means:-

 

At no time shall the mass fuel flow, extrapolated from a spot reading, exceed a peak flow rate equivalent to 100kg/hr.

Ok, I've come up with a rule which actually says what the FIA claims that their rule means:-

 

At no time shall the mass fuel flow, extrapolated from a spot reading, exceed a peak flow rate equivalent to 100kg/hr.

 

See, THAT wording sounds like a testable technical requirement. The actual wording quoted earlier is far too vague IMHO and as a result I think Red Bull will probably be successful with their appeal.

Ridiculous, empty threats from Red Bull:

 

http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/display/08663

 

http://www.f1.co.uk/read-news/2014/9800/f1-2014-%E2%80%93-red-bull-could-leave-formula-1

 

...if you can't follow the rules, don't complain when you get caught?

 

 

 

 

 

Although I reckon if Red Bull went into the FIA hearing with this http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/03/24/red-bull-apologises-for-mark-spec-part/ - they would probably get off!

I think it'll be a major test for the FIA how they deal with this appeal.

 

The infringement is pretty clear cut, RB were told about it during the race by officials and given the chance to correct it and choose not to and now they're throwing their toys out of the pram and threatening to leave.

 

I can't think how RB could frame a defence that legitimises ignoring officials, especially when the regulations are precise in their definition and clear about actions following breaches.

 

It's a shame for Riccardo, but the team can't be above the rules.

http://m.skysports.com/article/formula1//9231815

Good points in that article I thought, along the lines of "It doesn't state that we have to use the FIA sensor for the fuel flow in the regulations, just that we must not exceed 100kg/hr, and we can prove we haven't done that". Still a bit cheeky, but fare enough!

The infringement is pretty clear cut, RB were told about it during the race by officials and given the chance to correct it and choose not to and now they're throwing their toys out of the pram and threatening to leave.

This is one of reasons why Red Bull is currently my least favourite team in F1. They've had four championship years and now one bad race and they want to pack it in because they can't get their own way. They seem to think that F1 needs Red Bull more than Red Bull need F1.

As for the appeal, what is RB's case, we ignored the rules because we are right?

2014 regs:

 

5.10.3 Homologated sensors must be fitted which directly measure the pressure, the temperature 

and the flow of the fuel supplied to the injectors, these signals must be supplied to the FIA 

data logger. 

5.10.4 Only one homologated FIA fuel flow sensor may be fitted to the car which must be placed 

wholly within the fuel tank. 

Ha! Right, okay then! I was just starting to think sympathetically towards them!

Cheating barstewards it is!

 

As for the appeal, what is RB's case, we ignored the rules because we are right Red Bull?

 

Corrected that for you!

This is one of reasons why Red Bull is currently my least favourite team in F1. They've had four championship years and now one bad race and they want to pack it in because they can't get their own way. They seem to think that F1 needs Red Bull more than Red Bull need F1.

As for the appeal, what is RB's case, we ignored the rules because we are right?

Let's be fair, Ferrari did similar post Schumacher and threatened to walk.

Other teams have done similar at one time or another. RB haven't got anywhere near some of the stunts pulled by teams in the past.

Ps I'm not a fan of Horner or RB. Lifelong Williams fan myself.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113091

 

RB's appeal plan.

 

It will argue that a technical directive issued by the FIA regarding fuel-flow sensor rate readings cannot be used as grounds to disqualify it, because such documents do not hold regulatory value.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113091

 

RB's appeal plan.

 

It will argue that a technical directive issued by the FIA regarding fuel-flow sensor rate readings cannot be used as grounds to disqualify it, because such documents do not hold regulatory value.

It's a pretty thin argument but then who knows what will take place behind closed doors at the FIA hearing (arms twisted, palms greased, tantrums - your guess is as good as mine   )

 

Anyway, Malaysia this weekend and the first to be broadcast live on BBC   

 

Another Mercedes win, or will RB have their/Renaults problems sorted? Is Vettel likely to be out performed by his young upstart of a team mate again, or will Riccardos side of the garage been told who's the number 1?

Will Ferrari have made any progress and will Magnussen upset Button again?

Is reliability likely to be any better this weekend?

Lot's of questions and it's on BBC for those of us too tight pay for Sky   

If there is a dry qualifying i think we will really see the Mercedes, followed by the Williams, far up front!

After Q2, hard to say if the gap's been closed or it's just that Sepang covers up some of Ferrari and Vermillian Male Bovine's weaknesses.

Damn! Practice 2 suggests Vettel will make it through to Q3  :no: