A quick smear of copper slip on the face of the hub and a small blob on each wheel bolt.

 

Remove and replace using a normal solid wheel brace with a dollop of common sense and all is good.

 

No issues in 20 years of driving averaging 30K miles/year.

 

The chances of a wheel coming loose - minuscule.

 

The chances of not being able to remove the bolts or detach the alloy from the hub at the road side - much higher.

Edited 1 April, 201412 yr by silver1011

Absolutely NEVER NEVER use lubricants etc on wheel nuts/studs.

The best advice is to make sure that the wheel nuts/studs are clean and free from muck/crap etc.

 

It is however acceptable to use a slight smear of copper-slip between the wheel centre and the rear drum to aid wheel removal at a later date.

It really isn't a good idea guys to be using any form of anti sieze or lube of any kind on wheel bolts. Agree totally with Lee. Infact unless a manual states otherwise all torque figs are dry. Remember that all wheel bolts from new are zinc dry lubed and do not require extra lube. Doing so can be dangerous. If a tech did this in my workshop he'd be in trouble. Most bolts sieze because they have been over tightened which stretches the threads and damages the dry coating introducing corrosion and damaging the threads. If bolts are torqued correctly even if left for a prolonged period they will be fine. Never ever had a car that had siezed wheel bolts in spite of not lubing. Not lubing applies to all vehicle fasteners unless otherwise stated. With great respect to all, just because someone has lubed their threads for ever and a day and been lucky not to have had a big issue doesn't mean it's good advice to give out on here. It really is a no no. And if anyone has corroded wheel bolts just clean them up good or replace them. It's safer.[/quote

I don't disagree with anything you say because I've heard it all before and know it's the received wisdom in the motor trade.

However the incident that I described regarding having to grind out a wheel bolt was not fictitious and was doubtless caused by overtightening.

Also I don't think the motor trade has anything to be holier than thou in these matters because it's most likely that it's them that's doing the overtightening,tyre shops perhaps more than garages,and just because a wheel can always be removed in workshop conditions it doesn't mean that the owner can manage it at the roadside.

As regards annual servicing, IMO the wheels always ought to be removed to apply grease to prevent hub seizure,but does this always happen in the trade?....I doubt it.

 

Yes been there myself with customers cars and you make some good points. Can be a pain. Again mostly overtorqued. Yes again to tyre firms that sometimes don't use a torque wrench and probably some garages who are not quite professional. By law they must use a torque wrench on a customers car. This is basic H &S and for professional indemnity insurance reasons and of course to prevent damage to customers cars. 

While i was waiting at a tyre and exhaust centre for some new tyres on my dads van the other week, i was wondering...

How do they know what car wheel nuts require what torque? (soo many different makes and models) or Do they torque all cars wheel nuts up to the same torque?

Its probably a stupid question, but it got me wondering haha.

I wondered what exactly Copper Grease was and so consulted the Oracle (aka Halfrauds), apparently, it "Prevents disc break squeal" - I'm not sure whether the issue is disks breaking or the desire to stop whiplash?

 

In (serious) relation to the OP, what I really wondered was "Why Copper Grease"? Why not "Lith Moly" or any other high temperature grease?

In the dark ages, stuff appeared that was called Copaslip, it was originally for use on furnace bolts!  Its use has spread to other hot places like wheel hubs and for use as anti-squeal paste on brake callipers. Using it as anti-squeal paste seems to be getting frowned on nowadays though, I tend to use the stuff brake places supply for that job, and even use that stuff on wheel hubs sparingly - but it still escapes and leaves black streaks on my alloys if I use too much.

I'm not sure even high temp greases go up to the temp that copper slip does.

I love the stuff haha.

If the wheels get stuck on you can get them of by levering the inside of them against lower shock with a bit of 4x2

The main problem is with rear hub brakes / drums on cars , I've always put some copper grease where the steel touches alloy as they both react , all I do with my bolts is a good soak in wd40 and clean them up with a toothbrush and place back in the hub, if you apply any type of thick grease type stuff to your bolts , the grease can fill the void between the top of the bolt and the end of the thread in the hub , therefore giving you a false torque and bolts will come loose

Yeah why not? It's not going to hurt and plus be easier when you come to swap them again. I done this when I couldn't get my rear near side off. Took all of them off and copper greased them all.

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If the wheels get stuck on you can get them of by levering the inside of them against lower shock with a bit of 4x2

Easiest method is to put the bolts back in, leaving a turn or two loose. Lower the car back down, that sometimes breaks the galvanic corrosion. If not, give the wheel a kick, or very, very gently drive the car forwards as slow as you can.

 

FWIW, I always copper grease the hub/wheel, very lightly, but not the bols for the reasons stated by others. I've only faile to get bolts undone once, after they were rattlegunned tight. As others have said, the correct torque is surprisingly low, but generally wheelbolts are overengineered to cope.

Im defo going to take mine off, paint the drums and put a little copper slip on all round soon.

I wrestled with a customers fiat panda wheel (im a plumber, not even a mechanic haha) once trying to get it off. It was a right pain, came eventually though after a few bear hugs hahaa.

I dont want that happening to my fabia

In fact when it happened to me I had to call the RAC as it had a slow puncture and he advised me to put copper grease on it/them.

Im defo going to take mine off, paint the drums and put a little copper slip on all round soon.

I wrestled with a customers fiat panda wheel (im a plumber, not even a mechanic haha) once trying to get it off. It was a right pain, came eventually though after a few bear hugs hahaa.

I dont want that happening to my fabia

 

A plumber! You're a God in my book....

Just a small warning. Be careful mixing different metals. OK so that sounds irrelevant here but alloy wheels corrode easily if damaged (small scratch). This corrosion is greatly increased if the alloy is in contact with any copper. So DON'T use Copaslip on the wheels either on the hub side or nuts. Use plain grease - ideally a heavy waterproof grease if you can get it.

 

Ask anyone who has a sailing boat. The aluminium masts and booms must never have any copper on them as they quickly develop cracks and break for the same reason. Putting stainless steel trim on mild steel bodywork does the same thing. The mild steel rusts significantly more. For more see

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

 

As an aside, I have always greased the wheel nuts on all my cars over 50 years of servicing and maintaining them. I have never had problems with them loosening. I retighten 100 miles after refitting any wheel. Using a torque wrench is good so that you can judge the correct degree of force to use. After that, using it is optional. Don't over-tighten dry or greased nuts. Once greased you can under-tighten them a bit as less of the torque is transferred to the stud and only tightens the nut rather than trying to twist the stud as well. As an approximate estimate, a greased nut can be tightend to half the torque of a dry nut to acheive the same contact pressure but a bit more than half the dry torque is recommended.

I presume what your referring to there is electrolysis? The corrosion of dissimilar metals?

I wish id read this earlier, as i did mine yesterday. Painted the drums with black smooth hammerite too.

Its hard to remember the contact patch on the alloy is, but im sure it had something on it?

Has anybody suffered any problems in the past when using copper slip?

I kept my wheel nuts dry, and torqued them up properly.

I dont want to play with the chance of my wheel falling off haha.

I'll go round and retorque after a few miles .

Doubt they will fall off.

If you were to check the rears now i would think they are nicely stuck to the drums by the Hammerite as it cured.

I was super careful not to get any on the contact patches and only applied a thin coat. So it should be fine, im hoping .

It looks miles better IMO .

Thanks to Estateman educating me (in a previous thread), I no longer oil or grease wheel bolts - although I'll clean them up with penetrating oil and a tooth brush if they are corroded or contaminated and then wash them off with brake cleaner.

 

As far as copper based grease, I've never been a fan as it tends to get everywhere, its messy and I dont seem to be able to apply it in a thin film. I've used LM grease on hubs - it works fine, but again as you cant put a super fine layer on, it does tend to seep out at the hub wheel joint and makes a mess on the visible bit of the hub as it grabs the brake dust. It also works its way into the wheel bolt area.

 

My latest preferred method is - (initially) clean the wheel and hub mating surfaces - the whole lot as corrosion anywhere between wheel and hub can make it difficult to remove the wheel. Then a blowover with silicone spray on both surfaces - making sure of course to protect the disc pad surfaces and the threaded bolt holes.

 

In my mind, the advantage of silicone spray is the layer applied is much thinner than you can acheive applying any grease, its high temperature resistant (-100 to +250 deg C) and "dries" so you can touch it without getting your hands covered in the stuff. Dust doesnt stick to it either.

 

Someone will be along shortly and tell me I'm doing it all wrong I expect though......