Just a piggin' shame it costs the best part of

Filled up yesterday in a deserted petrol station. From Warning light to fuel, 40 litres,

I'm amazed at the amount of mis-information surrounding this subject!

Two points everyone needs to understand:

• The percentage of total tax take on a litre of fuel is less now than in the past.
  
• The value of the total tax take on a litre of fuel is less now than in the past.
  

I don't understand why people are having just a hard time understanding this, is the nations grasp of basic maths and economics really so poor that the majority of the population incorrectly disagree with those above two points?

2000 76.2p VAT=11.35p Duty = 47.1p Total tax percentage 77%

2005 91.0p VAT=13.55p Duty = 47.1p Total tax percentage 67%

VAT delta = 2.2p

Inflation 2%pa

Over four years the value of the duty has decreased by 4.9p due to it staying fixed in the face of inflation.

Over the same four years the amount of VAT has increased by 2.2p due to price of oil increasing.

1.2p of that 2.2p was needed to keep the value of VAT take the same in the face of inflation.

So the value of VAT has increased by 2.2p - 1.2p = 1p.

In conclusion over the last five years the value of tax taken per litre of petrol has fallen by 4.9p - 1p = 3.9p per litre.

And the percentage of the tax per litre has falen 10% from 77% to 67%.

Well in 8 years I've had a 500 pound pay rise, my milage allowance was set when fuel was 55pence a litre and it's gone up some what since then.

I agree with the protests, but not for all the stated reasons. The problem as Shifty has said is that somewhere along the way a problem has been created.

This might be the fault of the consumer or the market leading the consumer, but we want everyrthing yesterday and half the price. This leads to massive over use of road network and transport costs.

Meanwhile business fails to latch on to the power of the telephone and call me for a meeting 230 miles away for a few hours, which given I say about 5 words is quite an expensive version of a phone call.

So the goverment tax us, I'd actually happily pay far more fuel duty, if the roads were clear, the police left us alone and went after pilocsk with no lights on at night etc etc.

The fuel tax, ignoring hauliers who should have some form of exceptions / claim back / rail incentive is actually a fairish tax.

The ral problem comes from the rural areas where servicves have been removed and fuel is typically more with normally increased consumption (hills etc)

I see no reason why a fuel / car tarrif cannot be created. Why should henry toff with his 4.6 hse range rover pay the same as enid granny going to the shops.

Without going to far off the rails, this country is screwed, much as the French don't really get a lot right in my eye's there protests do seem to be effective, perhaps, maybe just there is somthing in it afterall.

I have a car allowance which is meant to cover car devaluation plus fuel, insurance. It doesn't come anywhere near and these days the fuel is 400 quid/month, roughly. When I do business-related trips I can claim a bit back but it's around 17 p/mile ( parent company in US, based on US pricing, seems a touch unfair :( )

Either way - causing me to waste that 1 quid a liter fuel in a protest really won't get my support. I absolutely understand that the for example 20k extra cost needs to be passed on, and it will be, to the end consumer at some point. So everyone gets hit by it. As already mentioned, tax on fuel HAS come down a tad, and world events have just not helped keep the prices down.

Having said that - I am glad that I am able to live in a country where people have the right to protest, within reason and peacefully. I have lived in the UK for 10+ years and it really isn't all that bad imho, being a Dutch national Prices on the continent have been rising as well, and no doubt they'll catch up soon. The difference is nowhere near as much as it was a few years back

I have a car allowance which is meant to cover car devaluation plus fuel, insurance. It doesn't come anywhere near and these days the fuel is 400 quid/month, roughly. When I do business-related trips I can claim a bit back but it's around 17 p/mile ( parent company in US, based on US pricing, seems a touch unfair :( )

Are you sure your allowance is meant to cover personal fuel? At 17p per mile that should cover you for business fuel. I take the allowance and it more than pays for a Fabia VRS, devaluation, service, insurance etc. I pay for my own personal fuel and can claim money for business miles (being a <2.0L diesel it's only 12p, I think though).

You might want to fill up tonight If you know what I mean as there maybe an announcment tommorow which may cause people to panic buy. I can't reveal my sources but lets just say they get informed after the emergency services.

Or of course there may be no such announcement :P

I'd be interested to know how you are able to cover your car cost at that price?

It's meant to cover the car for business use. So to/from work isnt included. But it should cover car 'business use' insurance premium over normal, the usual. As for covering it? No chance. I've done 16k in 3 months. So guestimating 60k yearly due to slight variation. Somehow I doubt the car will be worth a lot in two years from now, with 120k on the clock, and servicing isnt cheap, second service nearly there already :(

Either way - whoever pays for it, it comes out of my pocket at the end of it all

When I do business-related trips I can claim a bit back but it's around 17 p/mile ( parent company in US, based on US pricing, seems a touch unfair :( )

I believe that you can also claim back the tax on the difference between your allowance the government figure of 40p per mile.

17p with a car allowance isn't too bad, most places I know of it's closer to 12p a mile if you have an allowance.

Rob.

I believe that you can also claim back the tax on the difference between your allowance the government figure of 40p per mile.

17p with a car allowance isn't too bad' date=' most places I know of it's closer to 12p a mile if you have an allowance.

Rob.[/quote']

Might just be here that caps the limit on the 40p per mile to the first 100 miles......then 12p per mile after that.

Still, getting back almost

I believe that you can also claim back the tax on the difference between your allowance the government figure of 40p per mile.

17p with a car allowance isn't too bad' date=' most places I know of it's closer to 12p a mile if you have an allowance.

Rob.[/quote']

Ours recently went up from 11p to 15p which more than covers my diesel at 55mpg.

As for the tax , yes you can claim relief on the difference between what you are paid and the IR approved rate which is 40p for the first 10k in a year and 25p for any others.

I did about 17000 business miles last year and have just done my tax return to claim back just short of

i get something like 33.9 pence per business mile and

There is a couple of issues that need raising here...

Incorrect use of road network moving haulage around the country.

and the percentage of tax taken in fuel duty by the Govenment

We have a rail network that with the correct use / funding could transport

haulage over long distances, to hubs located at various locations around the

country. Then the loads then are transferred to trucks for the 'local' deliveries. I suspect that most long distance drivers would not be happy about this but it would clear some of the congestion from the roads.

Maybe the uneeded drivers could re-train onto the railways.

The Govenment are raking it in at the moment as taking the AA's fuel report

fiqures for the fuel price vs the % taken by tax then..

2002 - the tax figure was around 57p against a per litre of 75p

2005 - the tax figure is around 61P against a per litre of 91p

So for each increase in the overall cost of fuel then there is an increase

in tax amount going to the Gov...

Most of us in this country will complain bitterly to friends and family about a whole range of topics but will not actually stand up and be counted in any

protests.. Or is it just I'm not bothered...???

Our transport system is pathetic in general. Also our Govenment waste

billions on 3-4 big inquiries into each war / department mess up.....

Waste .....

Dazz

i get something like 33.9 pence per business mile and

Might just be here that caps the limit on the 40p per mile to the first 100 miles......then 12p per mile after that.

Still, getting back almost

I do a regular trip to wales which is 260 miles.

It costs me about

...

We have a rail network that with the correct use / funding could transport

haulage over long distances' date=' to hubs located at various locations around the

country. Then the loads then are transferred to trucks for the 'local' deliveries. I suspect that most long distance drivers would not be happy about this but it would clear some of the congestion from the roads.

Maybe the uneeded drivers could re-train onto the railways....

Dazz[/quote'] (extract)

:confused: Isn't it still considered the case with rail and also suggestions to resurrect canal transport that the costs of loading/hauling then unloading/loading (to trains) then unloading/loading back to artics was too prohibitive, - i.e put them on a trailer and be done.

Plus that a large number of artics are doing a round robin of local deliveries from goods taken from centralised warehouses, not usually located at railway depots, (the goods in question having already arrived at such warehouses by whatever method).

Haulage is a logistical/monetary nightmare as it is, what with "delivery slot" timings and penalties/rejection imposed by big High Street buyers. I wonder if a railway would pick up the cost when things go wrong - i.e. can we send them an invoice, or have a charter offering

Goo dpost CLV101, it's good to see some facts in the argument.

But isn't the real point the fact that if fuel cost 25ppl, it would cost us 75ppl (after tax) so the gov would make 50ppl on duty and VAT.

Now the price of the fuel has gone up to e.g 30ppl, it costs us 90ppl and the govt makes 60ppl.

Shouldn't the govt reduce duty in times of exceptional oil prices? They could still make their 50ppl and there would be no treasury shortfall which we'd have to make up in other areas.

When fuel rises from 80 to 95p the government only takes an extra 2.1 pence (I can show you the calculations to prove this) in VAT.

Even if they were to "hand back" this it only takes you back to last wednesdays prices.

(extract)

:confused: Isn't it still considered the case with rail and also suggestions to resurrect canal transport that the costs of loading/hauling then unloading/loading (to trains) then unloading/loading back to artics was too prohibitive, - i.e put them on a trailer and be done.

Plus that a large number of artics are doing a round robin of local deliveries from goods taken from centralised warehouses, not usually located at railway depots, (the goods in question having already arrived at such warehouses by whatever method).

Haulage is a logistical/monetary nightmare as it is, what with "delivery slot" timings and penalties/rejection imposed by big High Street buyers. I wonder if a railway would pick up the cost when things go wrong - i.e. can we send them an invoice, or have a charter offering

No, rail over long distances for bigger firms is now cheaper. Railways will pick up the cost, in the days of BR it was done. You'd get fined if you didn't have the wagons empty by a certain date, and they'd be fined if it didn't arrive close to schedule.

:rubchin:This is rather a complicated thingy, so not sure where I'm going... except to try to stay on topic about relative integration of road and rail.

Part of the argument for hauliers is competition from international hauliers. What follows is my opinion only. Many arrive at Dover, cos at least there's a reasonable customs clearance system (French border strikes permitting). Felixstowe is really good (erm not). Where do they go from there (Dover), railwise?

As someone said, perhaps they should be charged on entry, or at least have to buy our petrol (tax into HM coffers), but that would be by act of legislature rather than economic discernment.

I don't understand: "that rail over long distances for bigger firms is now cheaper". To be sure rail is cheaper now, but in terms of the overall journey? I'm not aware of many bigger firms who do not rely to some extent on imported goods, followed by a logistical exercise of getting from port to shop. Has anyone published a survey recently as to how many "biggies" use rail services as part of that process, as distinct from UK manufacturers-to-outlets? Preferably allowing for the skew for those factories built specifically next to rail depots.

Dunno where this leaves Dover-forwards. There's a train on the Continent that carries trailers, for example. So. if we're learning from eastern European countries on tax (flat tax), maybe we can learn other things too?

I know little about UK rail, having discounted it as an option, so hauliers/tax/fuel deserve immediate focus IMO.

Nothing's ever easy is it?

Mo

The Govenment are raking it in at the moment as taking the AA's fuel report fiqures for the fuel price vs the % taken by tax then..

2002 - the tax figure was around 57p against a per litre of 75p

2005 - the tax figure is around 61P against a per litre of 91p

So for each increase in the overall cost of fuel then there is an increase

in tax amount going to the Gov...

When fuel rises from 80 to 95p the government only takes an extra 2.1 pence (I can show you the calculations to prove this) in VAT.

See my previous post to see how both the value and proportion of tax has fallen over the last 5 years. The tax burden on fuel is falling, people shouldn't be blaming the government for one minute - we've had effective tax cuts on fuel.

Dont get me going on foriegn trucks in this country. All I will say is that they should be charged to come here, even if its just

On refuelling - that's not something that can be helped, if you are a UK haulier wouldnt you fill up in say France before crossing the Channel ?

As for charging - I would agree, should be the same for all. That said it would probably end up being charged to everyone including the UK hauliers so would it help in that case (genuine question, I honestly don't know)?

There is also the working time directive which is putting a big strain on several companies across Europe, not just the UK