My sister had a Peug-oh-no, 306 i think which had the tank for some sort of additive, Cost about £120 every few thousand miles, They soon got shot of it and got an Octy diesel..............        Talking of water injection, one of the lads at work put pre mixed screenwash into the Adblue tank on his wagon (by mistake, Same colour container as the adblue we got   )      He swore the wagon ran better on the screenwash than Adblue   ..

http://www.truckingtopics.co.uk/adbluefeature.html

"Diesel exhaust comprises a foul mixture of gases and soots containing more than 40 contaminants. Modern petrol engines, in contrast, emit almost no poisons at all."

 

The reality is that for ordinary motorists the fact that diesel cars are more expensive to buy, are far less reliable and use more expensive fuel massively outweighs any savings. But such is the might of the diesel market that Autocar magazine routinely reviews only diesel versions of best-selling models."

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11578986/Weve-all-been-taken-for-a-ride-over-diesel.html

 

It is in the Daily Torygraph so it must be true.

Diesel cars more expensive to buy, True..  Are far less reliable, Really?      I sense scaremongering..

Which?...          http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driver-tools/petrol-vs-diesel/choosing-between-petrol-and-diesel/

 

Residual values of petrol and diesel cars

 

Diesel cars generally retain their value better than petrol versions. They’re currently in high demand, thanks to people looking for cars with better fuel economy and lower car tax rates. However, the shows, on the whole, that diesel-powered cars are still slightly less reliable than petrol ones. And while routine maintenance costs are similar for petrol and diesel, it is potentially more expensive to repair a diesel if anything serious goes wrong. In particular, diesel engines use particulate filters, which can get clogged (especially if only used for short journeys), and the cost of replacement can stretch into thousands of pounds.

 

For me it was simply driving the 90 hp petrol Logan and the 90 hp Diesel Logan and the petrol was so much nicer to drive.  For the same hp the petrol is a second quicker to 60, still only pays next to no road tax and easily does over 50 mpg and was a grand cheaper to buy.  Same things are true for the 105 hp diesel vs petrol engine in the Fabias I see.

Still glad i dont have  DPF to worry about

Petrol is nicer to drive but diesel much cheaper to run.

 

You pays your money and you makes your choices.

 

I'll probably go back to petrol next time unless my annual mileage changes.

I think most people drive petrols by choice and diesels because circumstances insist ie they couldn't afford to run a petrol. It doesnt really seem fair to tax people extra because they took the cheaper option , its the government's fault for making that option cheaper in the first place really but I have no doubt that diesel car owners will be made to suffer and probably with increased initial purchase tax and annual RFL

So, expect a diesel car price crash.

Followed by a sky rocket in petrol prices, VERY shortly afterwards. (it will offset some of said diesel owners pain, in the governments mind, hoping to reduce any backlash directed at them).)

 

Seems to me all the powers that be have shot themselves in the foot years ago, it concerns me that governments will use this as an excuse to tax indiscriminately, Just another money making scam. I understand that pollution problems must be addressed, But not at the expense of the general public who will just be propping up government coffers with higher taxation...Sorry Rant over    

Seems to me all the powers that be shot us all in the foot years ago. They may as well have kneecapped us.

 

You really think they give a monkeys about the "expense of the general public"?

 

You really think they give a monkeys about the "expense of the general public"?

 

Tax on fuel ~80%

Tax on food - 0%

 

What do you think they'd rather you spent your money on? Basterds.

Look at fuel prices in the UK since the 1970's and they pretty much stay at the Hourly Rate of the lowest paid Adults for 1 gallon on fuel.

(4.546 litres) Just up and down a bit.

 

45 litres to fill up a car will cost you more than 1 days Gross Income when you are low paid.

Then you pay Duty & Tax to buy the Fuel & might take you between 350 & 500 miles if you run a sensible car.

 

The workers that keep the country in money need to be able to afford to travel to work,

but it is not always the case that 'The Hard Working Families'  or even Hard Working Singles can afford a Car & to enjoy it 

for their leisure time or even Holidays.

Diesels used to be my choice as I preferred the way they drive, in particular the huge surge of power when the turbo kicked in and lazy rev range which meant it didn't really need much work to get going.  The 1.9 TDI PD150 engine I had in a Seat Toledo was my favourite engine I've had (I know that doesn't say much about my cars!), a lot of fun to drive, never had any issues with it and even when gunning it the fuel efficiency wasn't bad.  I have a petrol now though as diesels have become increasingly complex and I don't do many miles to justify the hassle, no DPF, turbo, DMF or EGR valves on the new car and the difference in fuel economy is actually not that much against my previous PD170 engine.

 

I don't think there will be a sudden reversal of VED for diesels as they know they encouraged people to buy diesels but I'm sure we'll see that being gradually reversed particularly on new cars to stop encouraging people to buy diesels.  One article did point out that they thought diesels were being over victimised as petrols weren't particularly clean either which seems reasonable, these days I rarely use the car and do the bulk of my miles on the bike.  I'll admit it feels a little pointless when I go to cities like Manchester and London but better for me anyway.

 

John

I can see a two tier petrol/diesel road tax coming , one taxed on CO2 and the other on NOX or Euro phase

Petrol is nicer to drive but diesel much cheaper to run.

 

You pays your money and you makes your choices.

 

I'll probably go back to petrol next time unless my annual mileage changes.

 

I would not find a diesel much cheaper to run as I find I drive it so much harder that the mpg is much less than published figures where I can achive the manufacturers figures for a petrol car much easier.

 

When the garage gives me a loan car when my car goes in for a service sometimes I get a Fabia TDI diesel and sometimes a Fabia TSI petrol.  I get remarkably similar mpg ie about 45 mpg on either of TDI/TSI if I use the performance the car has available.  I can get 65 mpg or so out of the diesel but it is a joyless place where my life is slipping away and my time is worth more than the couple of quid I save.

 

I do about 40K miles a year and even though my mileage is that high I still do not want a diesel, unless perhaps it was a V6 something or other and then they are just silly prices.

 

As an example just how good even a small petrol engine can be I am mainly using a Dacia Logan I have just got.   Renault's 90 hp 3 cylinder turbo.  Quite at speed ie 75 mph is 3k revs, is doing 55 mpg,  does 0-60 in about 10 seconds, reaches 100 mph quite easily (on private reoad of course) has inbiult Sat Nav, phone system, USB sound and 575 litre boot and does over 600 miles on a tankfull, all for £10K.  Yes a fuel card helps but why would I want to spend a grand more on a diesel with its clatter, power only between 1500 and 4500, DPF worries, worse reliability, higher front tyre wear etc?

 

If I lived in Mainland Europe probably a no-brainer with their much  lower diesel prices than pertrol but te economics in the UK i just do not understand. 

 

Her is Fleet News PPM calcs.....  http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-costs/manufacturer/36/30000/Skoda/Fabia/      

Tax on fuel ~80%

Tax on food - 0%

 

What do you think they'd rather you spent your money on? Basterds.

And the only reason that they do not tax (the majority of) food is because that would unite the whole country's together, and they would have to call on the Army to get them out of the ****, again. (If there's enough of them left).

Tax on food is well under 0%. Agriculture receives billions of pounds of public subsidies. 

Tax on food is well under 0%. Agriculture receives billions of pounds of public subsidies. 

 

CAP payments/subsidises some EU foods for supposed strategic reasons and are charged on these imported goods and some foods are VATable at 20% and some are not ie biscuit taxable, cake not (including Jaffa cakes which are packed like biscuits but a court case reclassfied them as cake, (you can dunk a biscuit but not a cake).

 

We, in the UK/EU, tax and control or ban high sulphur fuel but diesel is cheaper is just about all EU countries but as mentioned could well be banned/phased out in some countries ie France or areas ie NE France. 

Related to the estimated 29,000 per year respiratory deaths............

 

Update from Sunday Times test on 29 Euro 6 diesel cars.    

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Environment/article1560165.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2015_05_23

 

Diesel tests reveal toxic truth

 

Tests on new diesels showed many emitted nitrogen oxides at levels well above the maximum (Nello Giambi)

 

DIESEL cars certified under EU rules as the cleanest yet built are pumping out toxic exhaust emissions at up to 9.9 times the official maximum, a Sunday Times investigation has revealed.

Tests on 29 new diesel cars showed that all but five emitted nitrogen oxides (NOx) at levels well above the maximum allowed under the new “Euro 6” standards, which were drawn up specifically to cut such pollution.     A Mazda6 2.2-litre turbo SkyActiv-D tested for The Sunday Times produced four times the Euro 6 maximum of 0.08 grams of NOx per kilometre overall. That rose to 12.6 times the limit when it was going uphill in residential areas with speed bumps.    Another, a BMW X3 2-litre turbo 4x4, generated 9.9 times the Euro 6 NOx limit overall, while the 1.6-litre EcoFlex turbo engine in Vauxhall’s Zafira Tech Line Tourer produced 9.5 times more than the Euro 6 limit overall.

Why is it always the private car owner that's to blame, Have they forgot what buses, trains and LGV's run on,   The vast majority of urban pollution is down to public transport and the retail industry, LGV's delivering to shops supermarkets etc,   The amount of pollution caused by the average motorist is minuscule compared to what they commercial vehicles chuck out...... But when it comes to the blame game, We just bend over and bury our heads in the sand while the government screws us over for yet higher taxation all in the name of the ''Environment'' and other countries around the world continue to pollute at a shocking rate, USA, CHINA, INDIA Etc.........

Last night on Radio 4 through the night i heard a Newspaper Review for a Sunday Paper with a Story on the worst of the Latest Diesel Engines 

greatly exceeding the Official Emission Figures given by the Manufacturers.

Volkswagen Group cars were mentioned.

One of the worst was while climbing steep roads at in town speeds and going over Speed Bumps.

 

So far today i can not see which Sunday Paper has done the Investigation and published the results.

Lol lols post a bit higher up mentions it....

Just read the whole thread, what a load of twaddle. Luckily I live in the Lake District, I can drive my dirty diesels around and not bother about air quality, we have some of the best air quality there is.

I'll still drive our brand new euro 3 diesels at work. It's all good. Yes they stroll produce 15 plate cars that are only euro 3 so can't be that bad.

Who still produces Euro 3 emission cars?

Why is it always the private car owner that's to blame, Have they forgot what buses, trains and LGV's run on,   The vast majority of urban pollution is down to public transport and the retail industry, LGV's delivering to shops supermarkets etc,   The amount of pollution caused by the average motorist is minuscule compared to what they commercial vehicles chuck out...... But when it comes to the blame game, We just bend over and bury our heads in the sand while the government screws us over for yet higher taxation all in the name of the ''Environment'' and other countries around the world continue to pollute at a shocking rate, USA, CHINA, INDIA Etc.........

 

You are right that private diesel engined cars are just one of the contributors to NO pollution.  All the key contributors will/should be forced to not enter urban areas at key times ie warm/hot days with low wind.

 

Bus and delivery companies will be forced to only use cleaner engines ie LPG and petrol during these times.  London has a permanent low emmision area and other large urban areas intend or will be forced to follow siut.  It is nothing new.  In the UK you were only allowed to burn certain fuels witihn the city and in European cities the would alternate the registration end letter/number each day in these key still/warm days ie odds one day, evens the next.

 

It is the fact that the real emissions of even these Euro 6 diesels is much worse that the lab/rolling road measurements and people's health/life must come first even if it inconveniences a few vehicle owners who may well have bought their vehicles believing there were buying a low polluting (CO2) vehicle but which pollute other gases which are a serious health hazard at some key times.   

so if i have a diesel for 12 years, and my neighbour has 9x new cars (changes them every year nearly) Are you saying that to produce 9x cars produces less air polution than running my diesel for 12 years? Or do we not care about that as it is not on our door step?

 

 - Im all for a greener future, but the hypocrisy is ridiculous, Government needs to make cars manufactured to last 15 hard years + people can only buy 1 car per 10 years, that's way more effective than a few old diesel cars knocking about ... but ofc the Tories wont do that, as they wont want to effect the stock prices of their vested interests.