Road tax will be back from 2017

[Dr Zoidberg]

Exactly right, yes

[BossFox]

I see this as a reaction to them failing to keep up with how cars have become more efficient leading to shrinking revenues.

 

What they should have done is tightened up the current system by lowing the emission targets per band every few years.

Instead it's been left and now a lot of cars pay hardly any VED at all.

 

If the money is really going to be spent on the roads, that's good.

After a recent Euro Tour the worse roads I found anywhere were as soon as I got back to the UK.

 

 

I also don't get how they can announce something like this, but it will start in two years.

So effectively nothing changes and they have two years to change their minds.

Years ago any changes to VED came in there and then.

[Dr Zoidberg]

What they should have done is tightened up the current system by lowing the emission targets per band every few years.

Instead it's been left and now a lot of cars pay hardly any VED at all.

I agree entirely, and that's what they already do on company cars - to keep paying the same BIK % you need to get a more fuel efficient car each time.

[Nels]

So,this makes no sense?? If I buy a new car and it costs £45.000 I will pay top whack tax, but when I sell the same polluting car to someone else for £38,000 they will pay less tax?? How does this have any bearing on pollution or fairly sharing the burden of maintaining Britains roads? Please explain???

[Dr Zoidberg]

The higher rate tax applies for five years, by which time your £45k car will be worth £20k

[BossFox]

The higher rate tax applies for five years, by which time your £45k car will be worth £20k

 

Which illustrates a good point.

It'll depreciate by an average of over £5,000 per year.  Paying a few hundred extra in VED is irrelevant really.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Which illustrates a good point.

It'll depreciate by an average of over £5,000 per year.  Paying a few hundred extra in VED is irrelevant really.

I've said it before but VED has a disproportionately large effect on people's car buying decisions. Psychologically, getting a car that costs £30 a year or less to tax seems like a bargain but we will happily pay ten times that each month in depreciation.

It makes no sense at all but I'm just as guilty of doing it.

[BossFox]

I've said it before but VED has a disproportionately large effect on people's car buying decisions. Psychologically, getting a car that costs £30 a year or less to tax seems like a bargain but we will happily pay ten times that each month in depreciation.

It makes no sense at all but I'm just as guilty of doing it.

 

Yes, it's odd isn't it.

So many costs are more than VED.

It's exactly why my Mum has a Yeti Greenline.

 

I don't even look at the VED rate until I've got the car usually.

Depreciation and fuel cost are always going to be way more.

[Nels]

But you are still all missing the point, WHY IS A CHEAPER CAR CHEAPER TO TAX? If anything older engines are less efficient so how does this work? Please stop thinking buying into Eco crap and actually work stuff out for yourselves. 1970s cars are free to tax so I rest my case!!!

[Ootohere]

Pre 1975 cars are VED Exempt, & Older cars MOT Exempt because Politicians and Peers are often Car Enthusiasts and have Classic & Vintage cars.

(25 year rolling Exempt now)

 

It was hardly done to suit the General Public (Plebs),  more those and such as those,

ie Friends, Family and Fellow Classic Car Club Members.

Edited 10 July, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Toxicvrs]

But you are still all missing the point, WHY IS A CHEAPER CAR CHEAPER TO TAX? If anything older engines are less efficient so how does this work? Please stop thinking buying into Eco crap and actually work stuff out for yourselves. 1970s cars are free to tax so I rest my case!!!

:P driving around causing more pollution whilst watching you lot pay for it

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dr Zoidberg]

Pre 1975 cars are VED Exempt, & Older cars MOT Exempt because Politicians and Peers are often Car Enthusiasts and have Classic & Vintage cars.

(25 year rolling Exempt now)

 

It was hardly done to suit the General Public (Plebs),  more those and such as those,

ie Friends, Family and Fellow Classic Car Club Members.

Not everything that the government does is for their own self interest. Get over it.

[Ootohere]

No it is not, i know that,

and it benefits many, and many that benefit most have car collections.

So maybe some do things that benefit them and friends and they might be in the Government, 

or in the House of Lords, or the Civil Service.

 

I am actually happy that UK Government Members and Peers are Car Enthusiasts, because that means the UK 

has not just Assumed the Position that the EU has been trying to get it to for decades now on Tests and Licencing etc.

 

 

I take it the Money that the last Government was putting into the EV Grants & Charge Points continues under this 

Government.

http://ukevse.org.uk/charge-points-chargers/charge-point-grantsschemes

Edited 10 July, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Nels]

This is true, basically it's all bull shi##. Taxing cars doesn't make a jot of difference and the most ridiculous part is that cars pre Catalytic converter and low emissions are free to tax so wake up you fools and smell the coffee! If you believe this **** then you will believe crimes down and this country is safer than it was 40 years ago.

[StevesTruck]

Scrap the whole scheme and put it on fuel. Those who do the most miles or driving inefficient cars pay more. No complicated administration involved, just a simple "you use more you pay more".

But then you're making it harder for businesses who need to do the miles to function and making it cheaper for people who could be using public transport to do their short journeys.

I do 25-30k a year, not because I want to, in fact, my private mileage is really low, and about half of it is on an EV, but because I need to to get to the jobs that pay the bills.

[StevesTruck]

This is true, basically it's all bull shi##. Taxing cars doesn't make a jot of difference and the most ridiculous part is that cars pre Catalytic converter and low emissions are free to tax so wake up you fools and smell the coffee! If you believe this **** then you will believe crimes down and this country is safer than it was 40 years ago.

Depends how you look at it, if you're thinking in terms of what you're doing to the environment on Friday of this week, you're right. If you look at the net result if what you do over a number of years, you're looking at it totally the wrong way.

To paraphrase seasick Steve.

I could drive my old van everyday of this life and the one I had before, and create less pollution than it takes to make a new car.

The approximate statistic is that over three quarters of the energy that goes into a car in its life is in manufacture. So keeping a car going for 30 years is always going to be better for the environment than buying a new one every five years, that'll probably be scrap in 15.

Reduce what you waste

Reuse what you would waste

Recycle what you have to waste

And if someone has one car or a collection, it's pretty immaterial, unless they were made for the person who owns the collection. You can only drive one at a time, so you can only create one set of exhaust emissions are a time.

[brad1.8T]

Can't please everyone. They could always move. Maybe there is a correlation between being poor and living further away from employment... hmm.

 

Tax breaks for commercial hauliers.

I think if you are poor you don't have a lot of housing options.

 

They tax mileage in New Zealand via the price of fuel.  It's semi-successful.

[skinnyman]

Which illustrates a good point.

It'll depreciate by an average of over £5,000 per year.  Paying a few hundred extra in VED is irrelevant really.

 

This is a very good point but most people don't seem to work it all into their overall costs of running the car.

 

I've said it before but VED has a disproportionately large effect on people's car buying decisions. Psychologically, getting a car that costs £30 a year or less to tax seems like a bargain but we will happily pay ten times that each month in depreciation.

It makes no sense at all but I'm just as guilty of doing it.

 

It does mildly amuse me that the £30 or so VED sways people into buying a car.  I had a chat with my neighbour who recently swapped his Volvo for a newer one.  His previous car was fault free, was finance free and had many years of life left in it from what I could gather.  In discussions with his wife, the £280(ish) VED caused them some worry so they have been and bought a lovely SUV of some sort (don't ask me what as it's not my kind of car). 

 

We had a chat over the fence the other day and one of the first things he told me was about the amazingly low VED which was then followed by the fact that they had to take out a loan for £6500 to buy the car.  My fag packet calculations gave me a monthly figure of £200+ for the loan, times 12 repayments a year which even for my basic maths works out at ever so slightly more than the VED of their previous car.

 

Mind you, he's happy as it's apparently a nicer colour.

[kenny]

Do you agree with someone paying a higher rate of income tax just because they earn more?

No I don't actually, there are fairer ways to deal with it. Higher priced cars already contribute with the VAT system. Wages and road tax to me are different anyway.

I think either band them against true pollution facts or flat rates as its meant to look after roads and if you buy a low spec bmw 3 or high spec won't wear out the roads anymore

[kenny]

I see this as a reaction to them failing to keep up with how cars have become more efficient leading to shrinking revenues.

What they should have done is tightened up the current system by lowing the emission targets per band every few years.

Instead it's been left and now a lot of cars pay hardly any VED at all.

If the money is really going to be spent on the roads, that's good.

After a recent Euro Tour the worse roads I found anywhere were as soon as I got back to the UK.

I also don't get how they can announce something like this, but it will start in two years.

So effectively nothing changes and they have two years to change their minds.

Years ago any changes to VED came in there and then.

Couldn't agree more, would have made much more sense!

[kenny]

Yes, it's odd isn't it.

So many costs are more than VED.

It's exactly why my Mum has a Yeti Greenline.

I don't even look at the VED rate until I've got the car usually.

Depreciation and fuel cost are always going to be way more.

Depends how someone has "bought" the car, If PCP or similar it could amount to a few months payments which then makes more of s difference.

Bigger picture I agree it's alomost pennies in relation to true cost but many just look at monthly bills rather than the true cost of car ownership

Not saying that's right either

[Gizmo]

The idea of paying more VED just because to car cost more than £40k is not the answer IMO, the more the car costs the more you pay now anyway due to the VAT.

 

 

The most heavily polluted streets are backed up with polluting buses being held up by polluting cars and HGV's that do not need to be in cities,

the deliveries can go from Transport Hubs in by EV Delivery Vehicles, 

so if the drivers get out of the cars and into the buses, and they are all Electric or Hydrogen, then it will be sorted,

less polluted streets.

 

Well except on Tube, Bus and Train Strike days.

 

So how do you suggest all these goods are moved around the city? Transport hubs will not work as all this will do is make any retailer (inside a city) have to pay a premium for their goods to be delivered which will make them uncompetitive so buyers will either shop at retail parks outside the city (therefore producing more pollution by getting there) or online.

 

The simple answer to keeping trucks out of the city (or indeed off the roads altogether) is to stop buying stuff and stop building anything, problem solved  :think:  ATEOTD the trucks only go into these cities to replace all the stuff that WE have bought!

[Ootohere]

Trailers and Containers are transferred to be taken into cities by electric or Hydrogen Powered vehicles.

Ether Tow Units or Box Vans.

 

It is not far Fetched, because Glasgow & Edinburgh plan in the Future to ban Internal Combustion Engines in Cities,

as other Cities in the UK and the EU will have to.

 

So Rail Heads and Ports, and Transport Hubs outside the City and Transfer of goods unto the Shops and Hotels, Offices & Businesses.

Imagine 

Park & Ride, that works.  You take your car near a City and then transfer into town by Public Transport, same idea,

except it is Good & Merchandise being Transported.

Companies already do it,  Yodel, DHL etc etc Tesco, Asda, etc, Deliveries by smaller vehicles than use the Motorways and Trunk Roads.

 

http://publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JAN198372

Edited 11 July, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[StevesTruck]

Trailers and Containers are transferred to be taken into cities by electric or Hydrogen Powered vehicles.

Ether Tow Units or Box Vans.

Artic = 44 tonnes

Box van = 3.5 tonnes

So you want to replace each artic you see in a city with 12 vans?

[Ootohere]

Yes maybe with several Electric Vehicles going to the Drop. Its what needs to happen.

As happens right now with many cities, 

an example being Edinburgh, because a HGV can often only do a drop during the night.

Have you driven a into Princess Street or the Delivery Lanes / Yards with a 40 tonner.?

 

Not Rocket Science, or even that new an idea, its just progressing because it needs to.

Big Department Stores have had a Depository & Storage and Delivery Facilities outwith the City Centres for decades.

Dairies have HGV's delivering loads to a Yard and then the products are delivered by smaller vehicles.

as Courier Services do, including the Royal Mail & Parcel Force.

The only difference is what vehicles are used, Diesels or Alternative Fuel Vehicles.

Bin Lorries & Buses are running with Hydrogen in Towns and Cities, so can delivery vans or bigger HGV Tractors / Tugs.

http://freightinthecity.com/category/last-mile-deliveries

 

http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/-2-5-million-investment-to-reduce-vehicle-emissions-167c.aspx

Edited 11 July, 2015 by goneoffSKi