Hello

I'm thinking of trading my Mk6 golf 1.4 tsi for the Octavia estate. (New baby, need more room). My problem is I want to get the 1.6 diesel but I'm worried I will miss the 6 gear gear box my current golf has? I will be doing quite a lot of motorway miles and don't want to be reaching for an non existent 6th gear when pushing on a bit, shall we say! I thought maybe going for a Dsg but that makes me worry about an expensive failure down the line?

Any help would be great. Thanks

Hello

I'm thinking of trading my Mk6 golf 1.4 tsi for the Octavia estate. (New baby, need more room). My problem is I want to get the 1.6 diesel but I'm worried I will miss the 6 gear gear box my current golf has? I will be doing quite a lot of motorway miles and don't want to be reaching for an non existent 6th gear when pushing on a bit, shall we say! I thought maybe going for a Dsg but that makes me worry about an expensive failure down the line?

Any help would be great. Thanks

We have 2 manuals at work as pool cars and in my opinion it depends how often you are going to be "pushing on a bit". If it was my own personal car I would go straight to the 2.0tdi for pushing on. However, if you will be pootling around at normal speeds most of the time I find they cope very well and regularly get 55-60mpg easy.

1.6TDI/DSG=Excellent Combo, certainly for mostly 1up/Motorway work.

80,000 on ours, & intend to keep for another 6 or 7 years

Marcus

Thanks Tomia, do your fleet cars seem to work hard when on a motorway at 80mph? And therefore make you look for another gear? This is a pet hate of mine! Otherwise I think I will go for the Dsg gear box thanks

You could always go for the Greenline - that gets a 6-speed manual box.

Having recently converted to a DSG I don't think I'd ever consider going back especially, in congestion, makes driving a pleasure and if you do want to press on, DSG is quicker through the box without acceleration flatspots, it just pulls and pulls, no wonder the Police use them nowdays.

Hello

I'm thinking of trading my Mk6 golf 1.4 tsi for the Octavia estate. (New baby, need more room). My problem is I want to get the 1.6 diesel but I'm worried I will miss the 6 gear gear box my current golf has? I will be doing quite a lot of motorway miles and don't want to be reaching for an non existent 6th gear when pushing on a bit, shall we say! I thought maybe going for a Dsg but that makes me worry about an expensive failure down the line?

Any help would be great. Thanks

We hired a 5-speed 1.6TDi in Spain last month & put about 1800 kms on it in 2 weeks.

New car, only 3380 kms on the clock when we returned it to the airport, & a long-term avge of 55 mpg over those 3380 kms.

 

We "really" wished we had asked for an auto, 105 bhp & a 5 speed, wide ratio manual, far too widely spaced, isn't much fun to drive, IMVHO  you never seem to be in the right gear for the circumstances.

 

The 7-speed DSG option would have transformed the riving experience for us, on motorways or in the twisties in the hills!

 

As for DSG worries, the newer the car the better I'd say, VW have too much money invested in DSG manufacture to keep producing lemons, & the reliability seems to be improving.

(3-year warranty on a new car, of course & extendable  for another 2 years if you were to keep the car for 4/5 years.)

 

You'll miss your 1.4 TSi, why not consider anOcty with the same engine?

 

HTH, DC

Thanks Tomia, do your fleet cars seem to work hard when on a motorway at 80mph? And therefore make you look for another gear? This is a pet hate of mine! Otherwise I think I will go for the Dsg gear box thanks

It's a very wide ratio 5 speed, 5th is almost an overdrive ratio, so cruising at motorway speeds isn't an issue, it's more just how long it takes to get there, especially away from traffic lights & roundabouts.

 

We found that it was a good family car, but with the wrong power-train. 

 

No grunt, no sparkle, too much noise = no fun!

 

DC

I have a 5 speed and don't have any issues with it, you really need a test drive.

My, back of a fag packet, calculations comparing 5 speed (1.6 tdi) to 6 speed (2.0tdi) octavias are;

1.6 5 speed 2.0 6 speed

1st 3.78:1 1st 3.77:1

2nd 1.94:1 2nd 1.96:1

3rd 1.19:1 3rd 1.26:1

4th 0.82:1 4th 0.87:1

5th 0.63:1 5th 0.86:1

__________6th 0.72:1

Multiplying the transmission ratio with the differential ratio (3.647 for 1.6 and 3.450 for 2.0) gives the number of engine revolutions per turns of wheel. I rounded them up to 2 decimal places;

1.6 5 speed 2.0 6 speed

1st 13.76:1 1st 13.01:1

2nd 7.08:1 2nd 6.77:1

3rd 4.34:1 3rd 4.35:1

4th 2.99:1 4th 3.00:1

5th 2.29:1 5th 2.97:1

__________6th 2.48:1

What I don't know is the actual circumference of the tyres between the different models, but it was a quick calculation to see the difference when I was choosing. At the time there was no data for the 1.6 speed green line as it hadn't been introduced.

From 1st to 4th the overall ratios are the virtually the same between the 2 boxes, 5th on the 5 speed is fractionally higher than 6th on the 6 speed, and 5th on the 6 speed is just an intermediate gear hardly any different to 4th. Any difference in getting away from traffic lights/roundabouts is down to the extra bhp & torque of the larger engine.

Edited 22 July, 201510 yr by classic

I have a 5 speed and don't have any issues with it, you really need a test drive.

My, back of a fag packet, calculations comparing 5 speed (1.6 tdi) to 6 speed (2.0tdi) octavias are;

1.6 5 speed 2.0 6 speed

1st 3.78:1 1st 3.77:1

2nd 1.94:1 2nd 1.96:1

3rd 1.19:1 3rd 1.26:1

4th 0.82:1 4th 0.87:1

5th 0.63:1 5th 0.86:1

__________6th 0.72:1

Multiplying the transmission ratio with the differential ratio (3.647 for 1.6 and 3.450 for 2.0) gives the number of engine revolutions per turns of wheel. I rounded them up to 2 decimal places;

1.6 5 speed 2.0 6 speed

1st 13.76:1 1st 13.01:1

2nd 7.08:1 2nd 6.77:1

3rd 4.34:1 3rd 4.35:1

4th 2.99:1 4th 3.00:1

5th 2.29:1 5th 2.97:1

__________6th 2.48:1

What I don't know is the actual circumference of the tyres between the different models, but it was a quick calculation to see the difference when I was choosing. At the time there was no data for the 1.6 speed green line as it hadn't been introduced.

From 1st to 4th the overall ratios are the virtually the same between the 2 boxes, 5th on the 5 speed is fractionally higher than 6th on the 6 speed, and 5th on the 6 speed is just an intermediate gear hardly any different to 4th. Any difference in getting away from traffic lights/roundabouts is down to the extra bhp & torque of the larger engine.

Interesting calculations, thanks.

 

Where did you get the data for the 6-speed box, we've owned 2 cars with the VW 6-speed manual & 5th  was a useful gear, not at all  close to 4th?

 

I was driving a 6-speed Mondeo at the time as well, & all our  cars felt as if the manufacturers had got their sums right!

 

DC

I got the data from

https://media.skoda-auto.com/en/_layouts/Skoda.PRPortal/homepage.aspx

The downloads have slightly more detail - such as actual gear ratios - than the brochures.

It's a very wide ratio 5 speed, 5th is almost an overdrive ratio, so cruising at motorway speeds isn't an issue, it's more just how long it takes to get there, especially away from traffic lights & roundabouts.

 

We found that it was a good family car, but with the wrong power-train. 

 

No grunt, no sparkle, too much noise = no fun!

 

DC

This

This

Que?

I got the data from

https://media.skoda-auto.com/en/_layouts/Skoda.PRPortal/homepage.aspx

The downloads have slightly more detail - such as actual gear ratios - than the brochures.

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm certain that the 0.87 quoted for 4th in the 6-speed box is a miss-print, the TSi 6-speeds have 0.97 or 1.03 as the 4th gear ratios, which seem to make sense when compared with the other 5!

 

DC

Personally, I think you should call around some dealers till one can put you in back to back test drives, hop outta one car straight into the other, thats what I did when I went to replace my 2.0TDI manual with another although, a mate suggested I try the 1.4TSI DSG which I now drive.

There have been various questions about the 1.6 TD and the biggest criticism that I have of it is the lack of a six speed gearbox which makes driving the car problematic in town driving when fourth gear is so high that my car will often struggle on small hills at 30mph, leaving me having to drop down to third gear. With motorway driving different story, the car hugs the road and will sit happily for hours in fifth gear. Not entirely sure how meaningful all the numbers are in comparing the gear ratios against the 2.0 TD version with a six speed gearbox. My last car had a six speed gearbox and the ratios were pretty much perfect with no obvious gaps, unlike the 1.6 TD which has a huge gap from third to fourth gear and fifth is very much equivalent to a sixth gear. If the Greenline version can have a six speed gearbox and benefit from that, then I can't see what reason Skoda can have for not making it standard on all 1.6 TD Octavia's other than making the Greenline version seem that bit more economical than the standard versions. I wonder how much of the difference is due to the gear ratios in the six speed box versus the standard five speed box and how that affects the way that people will drive their car?

My car is fairly easy to drive with a light clutch and smooth gearbox but I won't be buying another one unless it has a six speed box and vastly improved suspension, areas where my old Mondeo was greatly superior to the Octavia. I'm sure the new Superb will be a much better drive than the current Octavia with less corners cut and maybe even dare I say it, some sound proofing included too! It leaves Skoda plenty of scope to greatly improve the car when they give it its midlifecycle facelift.

I can echo the above really.  Got 40k miles on my 1.6TD elegance 5 speed now and it is a great motorway cruiser.  It will happily sit well above the legal UK limit all day long.  It loves 90 to 100mph believe it or not.  It is however annoying round town until you get used to the odd gear spacing.  You need to be in third to drive round 30mph zones as it feels like it is laboring in fourth.  It becomes natural after a while.

But if I'd chosen my company car again, I would have definitely had a DSG.  It's a fab system once you get used to the lazy initial clutch bite. 

 

So my opinion?  Go for the DSG.

Thanks for the info.

I'm certain that the 0.87 quoted for 4th in the 6-speed box is a miss-print, the TSi 6-speeds have 0.97 or 1.03 as the 4th gear ratios, which seem to make sense when compared with the other 5!

DC

Well, they quoted 0.87 18 months ago and are still quoting it on the up to date specs now. The fact is the overall gear ratios between the 5 speed and the 6 speed are virtually identical from 1st to 4th, and that 6th is very close to the 5th on a 5 speed, they've just put an extra gear between 4th and 5th on the 6 speed. It confirmed my belief that there is an element of "the emperors new clothes" regarding 6 speed manual boxes.

A 2.0 with more torque and bhp will pull better in a high gear, eg 30 mph in 4th than a 1.6. A 2.0 will accelerate faster than a 1.6 in any given gear. Likewise a dsg will accelerate better than a manual and be in the best gear at a given cruise speed than a manual as it has a wider choice of ratios and will try and match this (amazingly quickly !) to the power and torque being provided by the engine as demanded by the driver. The specs for 7th gear on a 1.6 dsg are a gear ratio of 0.65:1, on a 1.6 green line 6th gear is 0.62:1, which are virtually identical to the 0.63:1 of 5th on the 1.6 5 speed manual.

Getting back to Jimbat100's original question - Will I be reaching for a non existent 6th gear ? My answer based on the sums is No. The real question is will the 1.6 feel sufficiently powerful ? Which can only be answered with a test drive.

Edited 23 July, 201510 yr by classic

The difference between 5 well spaced gear ratios or 6 well spaced gear ratios,

can really only be very very marginal, especially with the torque, and spread of torque  available from any modern engine.

Seriously.

Indeed "The Emporors new Cloths" as expressed above, sums it up very well.

However in an automated box, & chasing ultimate fuel economy, more ratios probably make sense.

But since dipping the clutch is required in a manual, there is a sensible limit to no of gear ratios usuable , without wearing ones left leg out!

Marcus

Left foot braking was always a bit of a biatch for me in a manual but, its just fine with the DSG

 

Get a DSG

 

Nuff Said ?

Que?

I was agreeing with your explanation

Best bet is to try both to be honest - some people don't get on with DSG, others do (I have just ordered my 4th DSG car).  I would have thought the DSG would make the most of the 1.6TDI personally.

 

I'm a fan of the 1.4TSI with the DSG - currently have a Passat 2.0TDI 177PS with the 6 speed manual and seem to be spending an awful lot of time stirring that lever and pressing the left hand pedal.  I learnt early on to ignore the gear change suggestion though.

 

DSG isn't perfect - it's changes are reactive, not proactive It takes a little time to be persuaded to change down when starting to go up a gradient but if you have paddle shift, drop it a gear yourself (no need to move the lever to Manual for a temporary override) or give the thhrottle a quick prod which is usually enough to persuade it to drop a gear before it starts to labour and has to change.

The only thing I have found bothersome with Dsg is when going uphill in a speed were the DSG just cant make up its mind and shifts up and down frequently. But it only happens when going slow up really steep hills (14-15% rise/steepness or whats its called in english).

Gradient, Gromle - you've seen the same "issue" I have

 

My wife's Citigo (with ASG) does exactly the same but as the gearchanges are a lot slower on that, it sometimes goes from 4th to 3rd, and then has to go down to 2nd immediately after on one uphill section close to our home - which is probably a similar gradient (14 or 15%)

Erm, despite our still present DSG gremlin which only manifests when pulling away very carefully and slowly uphill.

The transmission is absolutly faultless once on the move, always in the right gear, not hunting about between gears and no sluggard no laggard on hills.

Even when pulling a heavy (i.e. twin axle) trailer, cos I presume it quickly "learns" the trailer is present due to

(i) Official Skoda trailer wiring and/or

(ii) the extra inertia, or indeed

(iii) a combination of both inputs.

Absolutly faultless.

When driven smoothly, however fastly, or indeed slowly.

Marcus