For us, it's come down to a careful consideration of all the factors around owning a caravan.

We're lucky in having the space to park it at home but every time I get 'the hots' for one my rational brain trips me up with all the fairly obvious downside factors..........and we live in a 'caravanning' country of vast spaces, with few other options in the 'outback'.

But we aren't into any hardships these days......(soft) and Airbnb pricing pressure resulting in even more affordable motel style accommodation means the driving can be more of an adventure with so much less worry, or, in fact, annual expense.

Horses for courses of course.

I know I'm not allowed to say this kind of stuff in this section of the forum, but my Subaru Forester is petrol, 4x4, automatic and can tow 2000KG with its 350NM of torque. It cost about as much as a Yeti of the same spec.

I know I'm not allowed to say this kind of stuff in this section of the forum, but my Subaru Forester is petrol, 4x4, automatic and can tow 2000KG with its 350NM of torque. It cost about as much as a Yeti of the same spec.

In some jurisdictions, generally what is being towed can't be greater than the towing vehicle......the Yeti is ~ 1600kg

What does the Subaru weigh?.

I don't have the exact figures to hand, but from memory its about 1650 kerb weight and 2200 maximum weight. I just really wanted to say there are cars out there that do meet the specs if you really want a petrol.

Problem with the Forrester is the size of it; much too big for us.

That is an important criteria.

We don't want anything bigger than the Yeti

We are perhaps lucky that now I have taken involuntary retirement we don't use the car very often, since we can do 99% of all our shopping walking into town. I use it once a week to go and volunteer on the Corris railway, which gives it a good run over the mountain, and it gets used when we go away for weekends or I'm out on a rally. If we didn't have the caravan we could manage with a much smaller car but SWMBO wants to keep the van. Therefore as and when we look at a replacement it will have to be a diesel Yeti.

I've looked at Kia; diesel, Peugeot; diesel, Tata; diesel. Nothing else comes into our cost parameter if we buy new or very recent (ie demo model). And none of them I liked!!

Same here Graham but unfortunately we had to get rid of the caravan for health reasons. Boy do we miss it.

Got used to the power and torque and DSG and 4x4 so replacement choice is very restricted. Am going to look the the new Jeep Renegade and the Fiat 500C range (same car in a different coat!).

 

As regards Adblue, it wouldn't bother me at all as my first NEW car was a Wartburg Knight Estate with a 3 cylinder 2 stroke engine that required 2stroke oil being required at EACH tank refill!  What a car, wheelspin in each gear no engine braking and very poor braking and an all enveloping smoke screen!

Fred

Edited 22 January, 201610 yr by g6zru

I remember in the early 60s being taken for a ride in a Messerschmitt 2 stroke bubble car.......you wouldn't want to much imagination about the consequences of hitting or being hit.

As I said earlier, you find me a petrol that will tow my caravan and I will consider it, but at the moment the only option I have is a diesel.

Same applies to many of the competitors too!

Well the 1.4 petrol can tow 1800kg which isn't bad, would cover most caravans up to the bigger twin axle ones...

Well the 1.4 petrol can tow 1800kg which isn't bad, would cover most caravans up to the bigger twin axle ones...

Our 'little' 1.2 triple has the same torque/characteristics and significantly more power compared to our 1.6 diesel

But

The prejudice remains

Well the 1.4 petrol can tow 1800kg which isn't bad, would cover most caravans up to the bigger twin axle ones...

 

That is the maximum amount it is legally allowed to tow, and not the practical and usable figure that would be comfortable and economic to tow!

Having caravanned for too many years there is no way I would tow an 1150kg caravan with that small an engine, especially around here!

That is the maximum amount it is legally allowed to tow, and not the practical and usable figure that would be comfortable and economic to tow!

Having caravanned for too many years there is no way I would tow an 1150kg caravan with that small an engine, especially around here!

 

I think you'd be surprised with some of the modern petrols - my wife has a three month old 1.2 Qashqai, it drives like a diesel, plenty of low down grunt, runs out of puff at high revs. Engineers have changed how they're turbo-charging the petrol engines nowadays to give that torquey low-down power, they're using much higher boost pressures (like a diesel) and sacrificing high rev horsepower in order to keep emissions low and engine sizes small while pulling around the modern, heavy crossover-type cars.

The biggest problem our Pug 1.2 would have towing is traction as its so light over the front wheels.

The first I knew of ad-blue was a huge ad-blue pump

appeared at my usual stop on the way to Devon.

It is for trucks and has been on offer for a good while.

Ad Blue has been used in trucks for a long time, if you research the price it is not that expensive. Whilst I love diesels, just like the Lanny Defender, the emission requirements are pushing diesels to 'The end of the road'. The amount of electronic control required for a diesel engine to meet ever stringent requirements has far exceeded market  expectation for a reliable cheap to run engine. It began with diesel turbo charging, inter cooling, shortening of the stroke and seeking higher rpm red lines. Torque is reduced during acceleration and they had to fix that with flap valves and fancy turbo designs. All this development was changing the basic diesel engine to catch up with the drive and feel of a petrol engine. However, petrol engine design improved with direct injection and fuel economy started getting close to diesels. That seems true for light loaded cars. But when you start hauling heavy loads or trailers, the diesel still wins on economy.  The big issue to consider now is 'cost of ownership'. The increased complexity of diesels engine design to meet emissions standards has removed many advantages and I think the cost of ownership and reliability over say 100K miles is not good. Ad blue seems to be just another layer of 'diesel fix' and even then, real world emissions may still be questionable.

 

Emissions and automotive is all about the fuel. If you start with a dirtier heavier fuel oil, it will need more 'processing' to run clean emissions, compared to higher refined gasoline. Start with hydrogen or electricity fuel and you have a head start on emissions. Both still have downsides and storage batteries are still nasty things to make and dispose of.

 

In the U.K our rail network operates with diesel engines running generators to power electric traction motors - how strange is that!

 It began with diesel turbo charging, inter cooling, shortening of the stroke and seeking higher rpm red lines.

 

All of which increased the thermal efficiency and drive-ability of the diesel engine, you put it as if they are a retrograde step.

I wonder if we have seen the last

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Sorry it just went off in my hand. I wonder if we have seen the end of the popularity of diesels in cars. When we start hearing of add blue failures it's going to be one more thing putting diesel buyers off

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What's going to put diesel buyers off?

The cars today are more reliable, fuel efficient and a LOT better to drive than the diesel engines that started the trend away from petrol engines in small to medium cars.

That old adage "They don't build them like they used to" is just as well as people have forgotten how unreliable cars were years ago and that was with very basic technology.

Yes we have problems with some cars now but the reliability has improved in leaps and bounds even with lots more kit that could cause problems.

I agree about the quality of new cars and their reliability and the driveability if diesels, but with everyone who experiences a failure posting online I suspect that diesels may appear to be less reliable and desirable because of the emissions systems. Its not all great for petrol cars because with direct injection they seem to be suffering from carbon build up.

For most drivers (who don't tow caravans)as soon as the economy advantages of diesel are overtaken by; servicing, warranty, depreciation and purchase costs they will buy a petrol

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For most drivers (who don't tow caravans)as soon as the economy advantages of diesel are overtaken by; servicing, warranty, depreciation and purchase costs they will buy a petrol

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The last time I checked there was no difference in servicing costs

Warranty? not sure what you mean there... buying a warranty after the Škoda one has run out??

Depreciation & purchase costs, OK whilst a diesel does indeed cost more than a petrol to buy they are also worth more when you come to sell them.

 

Neither are environmentally friendly as they both have their problems likewise they both have their issues regarding parts failing.

 

ATEOTD drive them both and then buy the one you prefer... simples.

I'm not sure where the myth of modern car reliability is coming from.

 

Today I fixed a 1.6 FSI Golf which was logging control unit defective with a software update. A 1.6 TDI Golf with poor running & misfiring on engine warm up with a software update, a Scirocco with all warning lights on the dash with no fault codes logged - with a new dash panel, a 2.0 TFSI Golf with fuel hosing into a cylinder to the degree it was pouring neat petrol out of the exhaust & resulted in oil dilution to the tune of the sump quantity rising to 8L with a new & rather expensive injector. & a couple of services.

 

I remember the days when I used to do more servicing than diagnostics - Modern Cars are junk & I honestly can't think of a car in production I would advise to a close friend.

 

We replace EGR valves on the 1.6 CR engine before we replace the fuel filter in most instances.

 

Anyone considering the emissions recall with a hastily written software package & a waffle in the intake on the 1.6 could do with seriously considering how this may affect their bank balance as EGR flow is increased & more soot poured through the exhaust in a vain attempt to control NOx.

 

Just a brief run down on my initial thoughts.

 

P.S - I have a Q5 in next week which looks as though it will be requiring a rather expensive SCR repair before it refuses to start in the 500 miles.

Edited 19 February, 201610 yr by gigglepin

The intention is zero tailpipe emissions by the slow process of strangulation.

Those last four words have often occurred to me Ryeman...

I also agree about the perception of modern cars being more reliable.

 

When I was young (I'm 62 now) I was always having to do repairs on my cars but they were old cars when I got them with little known history and quite high mileage. I'm sure that new cars then if looked after and serviced correctly were pretty reliable.

 

And if you did have problems the fix was usually fairly simple and inexpensive and if you were handy with the spanners (I was) then often you could repair it yourself.

 

Nowadays, apart from the odd simple repair I did on an old Stilo and my son's Punto (windscreen wiper linkages), I don't have the inclination, ability, diagnostics, specialist tools etc. required to work on modern stuff. In the old days the old adage of if it has fuel and a spark it should run - that certainly isn't the case now. 

 

We've discussed on other threads about expensive repairs outside of warranty, that modern cars should last trouble free for 10 years and if not, due to manufacturers design shortcomings/cost cutting, then they should pick up the bill, not the unfortunate customer and not by a goodwill gesture.

 

Well it looks like we have unfortunately been bitten by this with my wife's car (not a VAG vehicle). I won't go into any details until we have heard back from the dealer but suffice to say we are potentially looking at a very expensive repair bill and totally not our fault.    

Edited 20 February, 201610 yr by VAGCF

I'm not sure where the myth of modern car reliability is coming from.

 

Today I fixed a 1.6 FSI Golf which was logging control unit defective with a software update. A 1.6 TDI Golf with poor running & misfiring on engine warm up with a software update, a Scirocco with all warning lights on the dash with no fault codes logged - with a new dash panel, a 2.0 TFSI Golf with fuel hosing into a cylinder to the degree it was pouring neat petrol out of the exhaust & resulted in oil dilution to the tune of the sump quantity rising to 8L with a new & rather expensive injector. & a couple of services.

 

I remember the days when I used to do more servicing than diagnostics - Modern Cars are junk & I honestly can't think of a car in production I would advise to a close friend.

 

We replace EGR valves on the 1.6 CR engine before we replace the fuel filter in most instances.

 

Anyone considering the emissions recall with a hastily written software package & a waffle in the intake on the 1.6 could do with seriously considering how this may affect their bank balance as EGR flow is increased & more soot poured through the exhaust in a vain attempt to control NOx.

 

Just a brief run down on my initial thoughts.

 

P.S - I have a Q5 in next week which looks as though it will be requiring a rather expensive SCR repair before it refuses to start in the 500 miles.

 

Sounds more to me like modern VW Group cars are less reliable! My Scirocco had injector troubles with 22k on the clock as well.

 

Everyone I know with Japanese cars seems to have no problems though. Even French cars, when looked after, seem largely problem free - all the people I know that complain about their reliability seem to be those driving 10-15 year old models that they never service and ignore warning lights on (speaking anecdotally from friends who've had failures after me constantly telling them to get "that annoying light" checked out... Then when engine goes boom they're all "Bloody Renault piece of **** etc!).

 

The myth of VW being reliable comes purely from the press who seem to only be keen on VW and Fords... I expect they know where their bread is buttered.