Not an R, but quicker on track, nicer to drive and far more special to look at and be in one, although I accept that the latest is only a matter of personal taste. Still the fact that there's already a dozen of threads on R sub-forums on how to get the Clubsport wheel, seats, front/rear bumpers, wing, etc part numbers for retrofitting is indicative of the appeal the Clubsport design has to GTI/R owners.

Unless we are talking wet UK or icey Scandinavian roads I can't imagine another scenario where I'd prefer to be in a Haldex driven car without any diffs. That and if I was doing traffic light drag racing, (never did, and hopefully never will do). Once rolling and well inside 2nd gear, A Cupra and an R accelerate at exactly the same pace, there's plenty of videos to confirm that. In fact, when you're not spinning the wheels, the R is also FWD (surprise surprise). So, If you (speaking in general) say you're not into dynamic driving - and I am totally fine with that - how the heck are you going to be suddenly start pushing to the limit on reduced traction conditions? I don't get it.

I agree that the UK pricing is somewhat bizarre, but them costing almost the same does not change the fact that the Clubsport offers things in several areas that the R simply doesn't, so the comparison is pretty much pointless. You want a Golf that's the most fun to drive, as practical as any other 5door (R offers 40lt smaller boot by the way if we talk practicality) and has all the party bits that make it special you go for the Clubsport. You are unfortunate enough to be driving on roads which are mainly wet or icey (hopefully we can agree this is not as pleasing as driving on dry for a sports car), VW will offer you part-time AWD and make you happy. Worse or better? None of the two. Horses for courses.

Also, what it makes out of the box is only important to the people that don't want to even slightly tune their cars but irrelevant for anyone after power as Cupra 265, Cupra 280, Cupra 290, Golf R, Audi S3, Audi TT-S, GTI Clubsport 290, GTI Clubsport S 305, they all share the exact same engine and turbo and as such they all get to the same 360-370bhp with a mere safe stage 1. It's the marketing dept. the nowadays decides how much power should the factory map provide, so that you can convince the average buyer that he really gets something different for his money. But even on stock form, with 380Nm being available through overboost (same as in the R) and the 100 kg advantage, I bet a Clubsport will follow an R on a drag race from rolling without any hassle.

You the fella who frequents Golfmk7.com too?

:-)

Ive read a few reviews on the Clubsport, the press say its excellent and betters the regular GTI in a number of respects (that its quicker and a little more hardcore all round being the main reasons)....Im not an R fanboy but I dont see anyone saying its a better car than the R..I guess it is kind of a different strokes for different folks affair.

Also I dont think any of us have driven an R and Clubsport back to back as yet so how could we possibly comment?

Have the Motoring Journalist and Sunday Columnists yet been let loose in a VW GTI Clubsport on UK roads.?

 

This week would be good on either set of tyres they come with, a direct group test with a 5 Door, Golf GTI PP, Golf R & Clubsport should do.

Not beyond the wit of VW UK surely.

They seem to be happy to keep talking up the appearance of the Clubsport and now the Clubsport S before we hear much other than how it is on a track.

Personally I still think an R in race mode will still whip a 2WD version on the best drivers roads....which is my back garden.

 

& having driven MK4 GTI & MK4 R32 the R32 with a very heavy front end & laggy haldex treated the corners as if they were mot there...grip is amazing, MK7 R is way smoother compared to MK4.

 

Personally I consider a drivers car for the roads up here to be akin to a 4WD rally car...

 

You the fella who frequents Golfmk7.com too?

:-)

Ive read a few reviews on the Clubsport, the press say its excellent and betters the regular GTI in a number of respects (that its quicker and a little more hardcore all round being the main reasons)....Im not an R fanboy but I dont see anyone saying its a better car than the R..I guess it is kind of a different strokes for different folks affair.

Also I dont think any of us have driven an R and Clubsport back to back as yet so how could we possibly comment?

 

Yeah we've had that discussion before right? 

 

With no demos yet for a test-drives the press is all I can rely on for now. But I'd be rather surprised If it turned out that all journalists were talking nonsense when they said it felt better than the R. The suspension changes and chassis setup, at least on paper, are significant. Only a few months till I find out myself.

 

Apart from the reviews I went one step further and contacted a car journalist that drove it on track to ask for a direct comparison to the R and Cupra in terms of driving dynamics as this was my main priority. I don't want to disclose his name but I quote his replies here (with a comment from me on the brakes):

 

 

"..the Leon Cupra Sub8 is a mighty car, but if you want a more premium, grown up and refined hot hatch the GTI Clubsport is the one. Don't be too put off by the Clubsport badge - it isn't at all stripped out. It still has sound deadening and all the usual luxuries. I actually think it would be a nicer everyday car than a Golf R (I run one everyday) just because it's that much more exciting and focused to drive on a good road and much better on circuit. If you can get one I think you should..."

 

"I've only driven the Clubsport on track but I'd say it was very close to being a match for the Sub8 on track - apart from braking (the Leon is a freak here!) EDIT: of course it's a freak with a Brembo 4pot set on. I know it's an easy upgrade but come on VW give us a big brake option from factory at last!!! END OF EDIT] Clubsports will be arriving in the UK very soon and you'll see loads more articles and videos in the coming weeks."

 

To me that's as clear as it can be that it's a better driver's car than the R. Given that I quite trust him in his other reviews it was what I wanted to hear to be sure it was the right car for me, now I'm having a hard time waiting for delivery...

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by newbie69

This was most of the FWD Competition from last year, but now the GTI Clubsport will be a but more expensive than these, 

but then the competition is from the Type R and Renaults at similar prices.

It is good there are so many choices, ether new or Yesterdays Hero's.

 

Also I dont think any of us have driven an R and Clubsport back to back as yet so how could we possibly comment?

 

 

Personally I still think an R in race mode will still whip a 2WD version on the best drivers roads....which is my back garden.

 

 

That vid is the closest thing to a track comparison between the R and the Clubsport until the press can massively get their hands on them on a track and provide actual times, the Clubsport seems to be following the R happily and I definitely see it having tighter lines and less understeer as well on fast corners. Also, notice how that E-VAQ diff pulls the car towards the apex at points whereas a Haldex car needs to brake or else it'll push wide.

 

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by newbie69

To be honest that vid above reminded me of this one:

 

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by newbie69

http://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf-gti-clubsport/17036/volkswagen-golf-gti-clubsport-review-the-ultimate-gti

 

Note! Also riding on Cup 2! What would it be like on STD fit Bridgestone??

 

Newbie69 I believe you are having STD 18" on yours. Will you be changing if Bridgestone fitted?

 

Difference of approx. £100 per tyre I think if fitting Cup2 or may be the slightly lower spec / cheaper Michelin as fitted on Focus RS as STD.

 

May be you'll get Conti 's instead of Bridgestone ,if you are lucky.

 

Haven't read this before:

 

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/hot-hatch/driven-vws-golf-gti-clubsport-track

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by vrskeith

 

 

 

That vid is the closest thing to a track comparison between the R and the Clubsport until the press can massively get their hands on them on a track and provide actual times,

 

 

 

TRACK.....................

 

 

FFS!!.....

 

I'm sorry but I drive on roads, & some of the best drivers roads in the UK are near me, & are totally different surfaces to a "TRACK"...4WD either scoby, evo, R, skyline etc will beat their 2WD versions on these roads.

 

 

PS it will still get it's butt kicked by a track day special costing less when on track. Its just a marketing ploy like Porsche & Lamo, all introduce a 2WD Clubsport type version of the 4WD cars...might be faster around a track but in the real world on a proper drivers road no way!

I like to see the Journalists and Reviewers in right hand drive cars and staying on their own side of the road and white lines, 

and lots of Great Drivers roads in the UK have no white lines, no kerbs and verges are right next to the asphalt, 

and they are cambered roads.

Even the Video Reviews on 'The Alpine Test Track' has journalists using the whole road often when showing how quick they can be.

 

Note never signs showing, beware of Motorcyclists.

 

VW are very shy right now with the GTI Clubsport, but i am sure they are confident with the track ability, 

just show us the road ability,

then let us hear the Journalists talk about the ride and handling on road cambers, 

Down Force from the front and rear and all that jazz.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/392063-love-this-combo-location-and-a-uk-motor

 

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

 

http://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf-gti-clubsport/17036/volkswagen-golf-gti-clubsport-review-the-ultimate-gti

 

Note! Also riding on Cup 2! What would it be like on STD fit Bridgestone??

 

Newbie69 I believe you are having STD 18" on yours. Will you be changing if Bridgestone fitted?

 

Difference of approx. £100 per tyre I think if fitting Cup2 or may be the slightly lower spec / cheaper Michelin as fitted on Focus RS as STD.

 

No not an option here. But I loved the look of the 18" Belvederes far more than the Pretorias anyway so wouldn't swap them for anything:

 

 

 

 

TRACK.....................

 

 

FFS!!.....

 

I'm sorry but I drive on roads, & some of the best drivers roads in the UK are near me, & are totally different surfaces to a "TRACK"...4WD either scoby, evo, R, skyline etc will beat their 2WD versions on these roads.

 

 

PS it will still get it's butt kicked by a track day special costing less when on track. Its just a marketing ploy like Porsche & Lamo, all introduce a 2WD Clubsport type version of the 4WD cars...might be faster around a track but in the real world on a proper drivers road no way!

 

Don't know why you're upset but using capital letters is kind of displeasing to the eye, and nobody is taking what you say more seriously that way I can assure you. Personally I keep really fast driving to the track and I know who's getting what kicked there. The fact that you consider a proper EVO AWD with front and rear diffs equal to the Haldex system on a Golf R and Audi S3 kind of speaks for itself. I think you should head to an Audi forum and convince all those disappointed s3 owners that their 4WD works wonders around corners, then come back and let us know what did you feel the reaction was   I could go on about the inherent weaknesses of any Haldex system but there too much distance for the message to be received I think.

 

PS. Hold on, you mean it's not the fastest thing on the planet around a track? I better go cancel now that there's still time!

 

 

 

No not an option here. But I loved the look of the 18" Belvederes far more than the Pretorias anyway so wouldn't swap them for anything:

 

 

 

 

 

Don't know why you're upset but using capital letters is kind of displeasing to the eye, and nobody is taking what you say more seriously that way I can assure you. Personally I keep really fast driving to the track and I know who's getting what kicked there. The fact that you consider a proper EVO AWD with front and rear diffs equal to the Haldex system on a Golf R and Audi S3 kind of speaks for itself. I think you should head to an Audi forum and convince all those disappointed s3 owners that their 4WD works wonders around corners, then come back and let us know what did you feel the reaction was   I could go on about the inherent weaknesses of any Haldex system but there too much distance for the message to be received I think.

 

PS. Hold on, you mean it's not the fastest thing on the planet around a track? I better go cancel now that there's still time!

 

 

Haven't see this review before, contradicting the Evo conclusion

 

 

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/hot-hatch/driven-vws-golf-gti-clubsport-trackhttp://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golfgolf-sv/20-tsi-gti-clubsport/first-drive

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by vrskeith

 

 

Don't know why you're upset but using capital letters is kind of displeasing to the eye, and nobody is taking what you say more seriously that way I can assure you. Personally I keep really fast driving to the track and I know who's getting what kicked there. The fact that you consider a proper EVO AWD with front and rear diffs equal to the Haldex system on a Golf R and Audi S3 kind of speaks for itself. I think you should head to an Audi forum and convince all those disappointed s3 owners that their 4WD works wonders around corners, then come back and let us know what did you feel the reaction was   I could go on about the inherent weaknesses of any Haldex system but there too much distance for the message to be received I think.

 

PS. Hold on, you mean it's not the fastest thing on the planet around a track? I better go cancel now that there's still time!

 

 

I NEVER said that a haldex & EVO had the same 4WD system, or even the same "equal" whatever the hell you are getting at??

 

WTF??

 

You obviously don't like the point that in real life on a proper back road a 4WD car like for example, scooby, evo, "R", skyline, etc, etc will beat a 2WD drive car.

 

I've done back to back with MK4 GTI & R32 & have driven MK7 R so I think I know what differences exist!

 

& weaknesses in a Haldex?, same for fixed 4WD, I'll take a new Haldex anyday & don't give me BS about the so called "the new ones are slower because no main pump (or whatever it is they argue about)"

 

Just realised I used Caps for a couple of words...oh dear me!...

I NEVER said that a haldex & EVO had the same 4WD system, or even the same "equal" whatever the hell you are getting at??

 

WTF??

 

You obviously don't like the point that in real life on a proper back road a 4WD car like for example, scooby, evo, "R", skyline, etc, etc will beat a 2WD drive car.

 

I've done back to back with MK4 GTI & R32 & have driven MK7 R so I think I know what differences exist!

 

& weaknesses in a Haldex?, same for fixed 4WD, I'll take a new Haldex anyday & don't give me BS about the so called "the new ones are slower because no main pump (or whatever it is they argue about)"

 

Just realised I used Caps for a couple of words...oh dear me!...

 

 

No apparently you don't. Nothing to do with the pump. The reason any Haldex car will not help during fast cornering is that as opposed to EVO AWD and Torsen Quattro the Haldex lacks a centre diff. So you take a corner fast, maybe a bit too fast, or you apply a bit of power. The fronts push wide (understeer), the rears are engaged via Haldex, the rears are driving at the same rate as the fronts around the corner which is un-natural and un-desirable (no centre diff to allow for rotational differences). Result - the rears push harder, but because you are already in understeer, it just pushes the fronts more, wider, into the hedge/ditch. This is what is known as the Audi Terminal Understeer and it's an inherent weakness of the system during such situations. It won't make the fronts regain grip and steer again unless you back off the throttle as opposed to a proper front diff. Surely when you need more traction as in a drag race or slippery conditions or getting out of a roundabout it will provide it, but that's nothing to do with going fast around corners (with relatively acceptable traction) which I think is what we were discussing. Haldex parenthesis closing.

 

 

I wrote this earlier when I asked directly someone that has driven both of them what he thought on their handling and driving involvement.

 

 

"...I actually think it would be a nicer everyday car than a Golf R (I run one everyday) just because it's that much more exciting and focused to drive on a good road and much better on circuit. If you can get one I think you should..."

 

That's from a professional test driver that has driven both, and who is publicly judged on what he writes and says. Up to you to interpret it as you want. It might also be that our perception of driving fun is different. If it was purely and only about driving fun I'd take a proper AWD like the one in an EVO or the new Focus RS. In the overall score though such cars lose out to a Golf any day as I wanted an upmarket daily driver as well. My next choice then would be a properly set-up chassis in a FWD with a good diff and Clubsport offered just that. I also do a few track days per year. A Haldex car would be my last choice precisely for the reasons explained. Not going to argue more about it, it was too much already.

 

PS. Driving dynamics aside, the design of the Clubsport alone was enough to sell it to me over any GTI or R.

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by newbie69

hehe thats this evening map browsing sorted. I know where some of the peaks are so makes it easier

The reason any Haldex car will not help during fast cornering

 

Blah blah Blah....

 

PS. Driving dynamics aside, the design of the Clubsport alone was enough to sell it to me over any GTI or R.

 

So a Haldex car will not help during fast cornering?.....

 

So I must of totally been on drugs & imagining it when I was driving around the corners way faster (had to, to get the haldex to shunt the power) in a nose heavy, laggy haldex equipped MK4 R32 on ditchfinder tyres compared to the lighter MK4GTI on branded tyres...

 

I don't give fig about what a "professional driver" says, if it was driven back to back on track, when I am looking to drive the car on our roads. Two completely different situations, & most car mags when they do review/group tests prove this, as some of the faster cars on track lose out on the road.

 

P.S. your last comment basically qualifies what you are IMHO.....

 

RICER....init bro'.....

For me the R has 300ps and 280lb/ft all the time...sure some of that is needed to overcome some of the additional heft and parasitic loss caused by 4wd....but as a fun daily road drive and certainly in terms of value for money the R would work better for me.

The Clubsport is lovely but it's not IMHO 30-odd K lovely....I'm not sure the R is either to be honest but I know where my money would go between the two.

That said the bucket seats and wheel choices on the CS are great...I also love the standard wheel and the option of Black Pretorias is superb...but a bit pricey at over £2k.

One would hope the Black Pret's and maybe the seats make their way to the UK options list for the R before too long.

 

So a Haldex car will not help during fast cornering?.....

 

So I must of totally been on drugs & imagining it when I was driving around the corners way faster (had to, to get the haldex to shunt the power) in a nose heavy, laggy haldex equipped MK4 R32 on ditchfinder tyres compared to the lighter MK4GTI on branded tyres...

 

I don't give fig about what a "professional driver" says, if it was driven back to back on track, when I am looking to drive the car on our roads. Two completely different situations, & most car mags when they do review/group tests prove this, as some of the faster cars on track lose out on the road.

 

P.S. your last comment basically qualifies what you are IMHO.....

 

RICER....init bro'..... 

 

 

 

No of course you weren't imagining it how could it be. I'm sure your MK4 R32's Haldex defied both physics and engineering constraints to get you around corners at the speed of light, doesn't matter what the mechanics dictate as long as you "felt" it it's all that matters. Ignorance is bliss after all.

 

Have to admit though If your driving is as good as your reasoning I'd be scared of being anywhere near you on those B-roads where you're kicking FWD butts, that clumsiness...

 

For me the R has 300ps and 280lb/ft all the time...sure some of that is needed to overcome some of the additional heft and parasitic loss caused by 4wd....but as a fun daily road drive and certainly in terms of value for money the R would work better for me.

The Clubsport is lovely but it's not IMHO 30-odd K lovely....I'm not sure the R is either to be honest but I know where my money would go between the two.

That said the bucket seats and wheel choices on the CS are great...I also love the standard wheel and the option of Black Pretorias is superb...but a bit pricey at over £2k.

One would hope the Black Pret's and maybe the seats make their way to the UK options list for the R before too long.

 

 

Oups, seems you're a ricer as well. How about that?

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by newbie69

No of course you weren't imagining it how could it be. I'm sure your MK4 R32's Haldex defied both physics and engineering constraints to get you around corners at the speed of light, doesn't matter what the mechanics dictate as long as you "felt" it it's all that matters. Ignorance is bliss after all.

 

Have to admit though If your driving is as good as your reasoning I'd be scared of being anywhere near you on those B-roads where you're kicking FWD butts, that clumsiness...

 

 

Obviously never heard of a speedometer....you know one of those dial things in the instrument binnacle that is behind the steering wheel...tells you what speed you are doing, & I was going around the same corners faster than the 2WD GTI version...

 

I'd rather pass on a passenger seat ride down back roads in your new 2WD golf as you think the 2WD "go faster version" will be faster than your old 4WD R in the same situation...all because the journos stay its faster on a race track....

 

Anyone for Nitrous or 21" rims with spinners???

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by fabdavrav

Out of curiosity, I was chatting to a brand new Golf GTI owner today and he said he had just had his GTI remapped to 286bhp by the main VW dealer in Plymouth and it has no effect on the VW warranty?

Anyone know about VW main dealers remapping GTI's to 286bhp which just so happens to be the same bhp figure of the club sport?

Maybe the VW Dealer is a Dealer for APR, Superchips or the like and there is some Warranty Cover provided from the Company,

but it will not be a Volkswagen Warranty.

http://www.superchips.co.uk

http://www.superchips.co.uk/s/warranty

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

Obviously never heard of a speedometer....you know one of those dial things in the instrument binnacle that is behind the steering wheel...tells you what speed you are doing, & I was going around the same corners faster than the 2WD GTI version...

 

For the last time, yes a mk4 R32 might be faster than a mk4 GTI, who cares. Today we are in 2016 and your mk4 experiences have nothing to do with how the mk7 R competes against a Megane RS or Leon Cupra or GTI Clubsport that all have the advantage of a proper front diff during fast corners. Faster than the ones you can take on a public road, just read about it, accept it and spare us. If you haven't driven another fast FWD car since 2002 there's nothing I can do about it. I have driven a few of them, as well as the R and without saying the R is a bad car, far from it, some of today's top FWD are just more capable during corners. Yeah I know back in your good old mk4 you were showing FWD's who's the boss, happy for you, can we move on?

 

 

...all because the journos stay its faster on a race track....

 

Yes, those videos, lap times, reviews pretty much everything was rigged to favour the Cupra over the Golf R. I heard it was part of the big FWD world conspiracy. After all SEAT are the big guys who are pulling the strings. We both know none of that FWD nonsense is true, mk4-5-6-7-8-9 R is king under all conditions and circumstances. Anything to keep you happy.

 

 

Anyone for Nitrous?

 

Not me, but here's some info on how to do it on your mk4 R32:

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3509574-any-one-running-nitrous-on-the-R32

 

"You can put nitrous on your motor or any motor for that matter with no problems. Ive installed three different kits on r32s..."   <<< Priceless

 

you can thank me later 

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by newbie69

If I had the choice between an R and CS I think id go for the R but it would be a tough call. The uprated seats on the CS look amazing tbh.

I can see why the CS would be quicker on track in the dry but I'd imagine on a damp/wet British B-road it wouldn't catch a well driven R.

4WD is brilliant for aiding traction but does nothing to improve braking or lateral grip.

Oups, seems you're a ricer as well. How about that?

Expect my work would not be too amused if I stuck a body kit and Peco Big Bore exhaust on my company Zafira Tourer 1.6 diesel...I would be though haha

In all seriousness though...I don't think the Clubsport is a ricer car, or in any way not decent or worthy....just if I were looking to spend north of 30k on any Mk7 Golf it would have to be an R.

I've had two Mk7 GTD's, lovely lovely cars and for a diesel pretty quick and a lot of fun to drive....but I wouldn't spend 28.5k of my own cash on one...the thought of spending that sort of money on any VW Golf myself is unlikely (mine were company cars) but that is the world we live in now.

If I had the choice between an R and CS I think id go for the R but it would be a tough call. The uprated seats on the CS look amazing tbh.

I can see why the CS would be quicker on track in the dry but I'd imagine on a damp/wet British B-road it wouldn't catch a well driven R.

4WD is brilliant for aiding traction but does nothing to improve braking or lateral grip.

 

Just as all hope was lost...  Thanks, but given that you like the Clubsport are you sure you're not a "ricer" as well?

Edited 27 April, 201610 yr by newbie69