I know this is opening a can of personal opinion-based worms, but my question is rather specific and doesn’t require the usual response of ‘all snake oil is pointless’ which I am bound to get....

Car is a 2006 Fab with 1.9tdi ATD engine with 114k on the clock.

 

I use fully synthetic full PD specific spec oil. Last oil change was 7k ago. I am going to service/ oil change in the next two weeks.

Given the mileage is creeping up and only a partial service history, I plan to service every 7k whilst I own the car.

 

Last service I added the correct dosage of Archoil Friction Modifier  http://www.archoil.com/ar9000-friction-modifiers/ as i thought the engine was a bit noisy (specifically tappety) and the stuff had really good reviews of quietening engines and reducing wear, which can only be a good thing in a higher mileage car.

 

Recently I have been reading up on PD engines because, admittedly, I did not fully understand them. Now I understand why they require the fully PD specific oil, which I have been using.

 

When I added the friction modifier, the engine noise definitely reduced and sounded a lot more refined – so I can say it has definitely reduced noise, and therefore, probably, engine wear.

 

My question is, though, given the specifics surrounding the need for PD oil (high pressure etc), will having added the Friction Modifier severely modified the properties of the oil in such a fashion that it has had negative effects on engine wear etc?

 

Thanks

 

Mike.

Edited 27 October, 201510 yr by mikeybean

In a word, no.

 

Snake oils rarely do any harm, they're carefully designed to make no measurable difference to anything other than profit margin.

That cant be quite true if it was then why would we need to buy specific oil for pd engines? If all oils are the same and additives make no difference their would be no need for different spec oil.

That cant be quite true if it was then why would we need to buy specific oil for pd engines? If all oils are the same and additives make no difference their would be no need for different spec oil.

I think you're confusing the OP's question about an aftermarket additive with the concept of adding detergents etc to base stock when making a lubricating oil.

No I'm not missing the point, the point in making is what makes pd oil different from non pd oil? Would it not be an additive.

No I'm not missing the point, the point in making is what makes pd oil different from non pd oil? Would it not be an additive.

 

The additive pack is different, much higher levels of film-shear strength additives than normal, you're confusing snake oil with the oil manufacturers additive pack, not all additives do anything useful.

No I'm not missing the point, the point in making is what makes pd oil different from non pd oil? Would it not be an additive.

 

Think we need goneoffSKion 1  ( George )   He'll know  :yes:

The additive pack is different, much higher levels of film-shear strength additives than normal, you're confusing snake oil with the oil manufacturers additive pack, not all additives do anything useful.

That's fair enough I'm aware not all additives do anything useful but by the same omission not all additives are snake oil.

That's fair enough I'm aware not all additives do anything useful but by the same omission not all additives are snake oil.

 

Let's put it this way, you can't buy ordinary oil and chuck in an aftermarket additive to make it a PD oil.

Let's put it this way, you can't buy ordinary oil and chuck in an aftermarket additive to make it a PD oil.

But that will only be because the owner has patented the rights, for all you or we know that additive that mikey has put the link up could be the missing ingredients needed to make pd oil, minus the witches and the culdren of course.

Try it and measure the wear on your camshaft, report back in exactly 12 month.

here's an interesting article on the subject. http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/oil_additives/facts_about_aftermarket_oil_additives.htm

Like I said it has lowered the noise from the engine, it's a patented oil with borate- which is a ridiculously slippy substance. To me it's not snake oil it actually works.

My original question was whether anyone had an opinion on whether it would negate the PD specific oil adding it in, given the PD oil is so specific because the engine is so specific.

Realistically I am not going to check the wear on the cam shafts in 12 months, and besides any wear will be negligible as I would have nothing to compare against.

The real question here is "is a quieter engine definitely better?"

I'm honestly not sure there's a simple/obviously correct answer.

Don't unscrupulous sellers quieten dodgy gearboxes by chucking sawdust in them?

The real question here is "is a quieter engine definitely better?"

I'm honestly not sure there's a simple/obviously correct answer.

Don't unscrupulous sellers quieten dodgy gearboxes by chucking sawdust in them?

To me the lower noise is a sign that there is less friction on all moving parts? The oil itself is quite thin, certainly not the viscosity of the engine oil.

here's an interesting article on the subject. http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/oil_additives/facts_about_aftermarket_oil_additives.htm

The article doesn't mention the Archoil? It's different that most stuff

The additive pack is different, much higher levels of film-shear strength additives than normal, you're confusing snake oil with the oil manufacturers additive pack, not all additives do anything useful.

What are film-shear strength additives? To make the oil stronger under the higher pressures produced by PD engines?

I can't see it doing any harm, have you google it for use with PD engines to see what comes up? As always stuff like this is going to be awash with opinion and personal preference. 

 

Not oil related but I always run a bottle of Forte Advanced Formula Diesel Treatment through the fuel system once a year. Does it make a difference? Maybe not, but the first time I used it a fair bit of gunk got blown out of the exhaust and MPG improved slightly, so make of that what you will. I'll continue to use it for the sake of £15 a year knowing it'll help keep the fuel system clean. 

I like Forte stuff

I use it once a year at service time.

What are film-shear strength additives? To make the oil stronger under the higher pressures produced by PD engines?

 

Yes, specifically the cam lobes and the followers, the oil film is the only thing preventing the follower spalling as the cam lobe rotates against it, when the follower spalls then the wear rate accelerates catastrophically, I've seen PD heads wrecked in as little as 10 minutes from running the wrong oil.

 

As I said the additive won't do any harm but it won't make any difference either, if you really understood how an engine works at a fundamental level then you'd be able to see why.

Yes, specifically the cam lobes and the followers, the oil film is the only thing preventing the follower spalling as the cam lobe rotates against it, when the follower spalls then the wear rate accelerates catastrophically, I've seen PD heads wrecked in as little as 10 minutes from running the wrong oil.

 

As I said the additive won't do any harm but it won't make any difference either, if you really understood how an engine works at a fundamental level then you'd be able to see why.

I see, thanks for that. Well I can't see how the Archoil will have any negative effects in that instance.

 

The Cambelt is due next year though,so would it be wise to get the garage to take the rocker cover off and inspect the condition of the camshaft/ followers etc whilst the cambelt is off - purely on a preventative maintenance respect? 

Relax, 114k is nothing to worry about if the oil's been changed regularly, if the cam were wearing you'd have rough running symptoms.

To me the lower noise is a sign that there is less friction on all moving parts? The oil itself is quite thin, certainly not the viscosity of the engine oil.

Not necessarily; thicker (higher W number) oils can cause slow filling of hydraulic tappets when the engine is cold, giving tappet rattle. When the engine heats up, an additive that has reduced the viscosity profile of the oil can cause breakdown of the thin film dynamics that the crankshaft and turboshaft bearings rely on, leading to metal to metal contact.

Not necessarily; thicker (higher W number) oils can cause slow filling of hydraulic tappets when the engine is cold, giving tappet rattle. When the engine heats up, an additive that has reduced the viscosity profile of the oil can cause breakdown of the thin film dynamics that the crankshaft and turboshaft bearings rely on, leading to metal to metal contact.

Surely metal to metal contact would be very noisy?

Surely metal to metal contact would be very noisy?

 

And it is I'm quite sure, luckily there isn't any of that going on in your engine otherwise it would be a pile of scrap by now.