Our Yeti 2012 2l 4WD Tdi had the glow plug and MIL light come on. There I was thinking ah, that will be a glow plug - simple job but during our short run back on the motorway she said the car wouldn't get to 70 - so I started thinking the worst. After a vcds scan I get the EGR fault code up. I checked all the glow plugs for open circuit just in case, but all are o.k.

 

I looked at diagrams for the EGR unit and saw nothing like it! But then I discover unlike the earlier PD engine, the EGR unit is right at the back of the motor which I can't easily see. Even worse the factory removal procedure seems to delve into right side drive shaft and DPF removal to get to the EGR 'radiator' which I assume is the part carrying exhaust which gets gummed up (?).

 

Has anybody attempted EGR valve assembly removal in order to clean it and are there any shortcuts? There are a few YouTube vids for earlier VW PD motors, but so far I've not found anything for the later TDi. Ours is a 2012 model at 47K so I'm wondering if I can get a reduced price fix?? Since they will be asking for the car soon for the ECU fix, they probably won't do that with a faulty EGR.

Edited 26 December, 201510 yr by voxmagna

Haven't a clue on another way to get to the egg other than the factory way.

But my garage quoted £2 grand+ for replacing the egg if it needed changing as 90% of that is labour of raking all the exhaust,dpf,swingarm,subframe,driveshafts etc etc off it to get to it.

Not an easy job but I'm sure somewhere I have seen a topic on doing a ear change diy style which was basically the same way as the factory. But they had the use of a pillar lift to get the whole car in the air to get access to the underneath.

Mine failed in October. Details here.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/374545-limp-mode/

 

Hope you get it sorted

 

Andy

Thanks Andy, I followed the thread. One thing in common is both the MIL light and Glow plug lights come on. Why the glow plug indicator should come on defeats me, unless somewhere buried in the drivers manual a flashing glow plug light has a secondary meaning.

 

It appears that half the front of the car has to be scattered over the workshop floor to extract the thing. I shall have to visit a Buddhist temple for a week to get some Karma before starting the job.

 

I do know that blanking off the EGR and fitting a straight pipe is a commonly adopted strategy. But it still required access to the OE parts. A further complication may arise if the ECU is 3rd party remapped, then hits the Skoda stealer for its ECU cheat recall. I'm sure the older BMM 8valve diesel in my VW isn't like this.

 

I've seen several postings of horrendously coked up EGR valves from other vehicles. If I thought I would find this on MY12 Yeti I would at least have some satisfaction after doing all the work, but I haven't seen any photos for this valve. Unfortunately, I don't know how the previous owner drove the car for most of the 48 K miles. We drive our TdI's at no less than 2k rpm to avoid the dpf clog issue and vcds seems to be consistently reporting good dpf emptiness. This driving strategy is too late for the Yeti.

 

I have one trick I will try because it worked for high emissions levels I had on a petrol vehicle - Engine cleaner/additive. If I can get through the Winter without fault codes, it will buy me the time I need to do the tear down after my Karma sessions.

I've seen several postings of horrendously coked up EGR valves from other vehicles. If I thought I would find this on MY12 Yeti I would at least have some satisfaction after doing all the work, but I haven't seen any photos for this valve. Unfortunately, I don't know how the previous owner drove the car for most of the 48 K miles. We drive our TdI's at no less than 2k rpm to avoid the dpf clog issue and vcds seems to be consistently reporting good dpf emptiness. This driving strategy is too late for the Yeti.

 

The point you mention above is a very important new consideration for anyone thinking of buying a 2nd hand diesel car fitted with a EGR valve, I.e. how was it driven and what was it used for. It is going to be vey difficult to determine that in most cases but I suspect it would make higher mileage for age to be somewhat more attractive than low mileage examples as the lower mileage ones are more likely to have been used for short journeys which, as far as I can see, is more likely to lead to EGR (and other "Eco" associated equipment) problems.

Thanks Andy, I followed the thread. One thing in common is both the MIL light and Glow plug lights come on. Why the glow plug indicator should come on defeats me, unless somewhere buried in the drivers manual a flashing glow plug light has a secondary meaning.

It appears that half the front of the car has to be scattered over the workshop floor to extract the thing. I shall have to visit a Buddhist temple for a week to get some Karma before starting the job.

I do know that blanking off the EGR and fitting a straight pipe is a commonly adopted strategy. But it still required access to the OE parts. A further complication may arise if the ECU is 3rd party remapped, then hits the Skoda stealer for its ECU cheat recall. I'm sure the older BMM 8valve diesel in my VW isn't like this.

I've seen several postings of horrendously coked up EGR valves from other vehicles. If I thought I would find this on MY12 Yeti I would at least have some satisfaction after doing all the work, but I haven't seen any photos for this valve. Unfortunately, I don't know how the previous owner drove the car for most of the 48 K miles. We drive our TdI's at no less than 2k rpm to avoid the dpf clog issue and vcds seems to be consistently reporting good dpf emptiness. This driving strategy is too late for the Yeti.

I have one trick I will try because it worked for high emissions levels I had on a petrol vehicle - Engine cleaner/additive. If I can get through the Winter without fault codes, it will buy me the time I need to do the tear down after my Karma sessions.

VW have used the glow plug light as a fault warning light for years. Older diesels didn't have an engine warning light like the petrol engine cars.

Assuming your BMM engine is in a Scout then unfortunately the setup with the EGR and cooler is exactly the same. To get at the cooler the dpf is in the way and that can't be removed without removing loads of other components.

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Now I'm looking for somebody that has actually done this job.  The workshop procedure reads like a hierarchical filing system.  The first page and a half is just that. But every other line links to another page and a half of stuff to be removed. Just based on a quick glance and word count it even looked easier to disconnect parts and lift the motor with an engine hoist! Another method I came across but not specifically this engine, was to disconnect sufficient to rotate the engine slightly towards the front to get better rear access.

 

I can't afford risking our Yeti on a long trip or go abroad knowing that something like this could be an expensive repair over which I have little control of costs in a roadside breakdown garage. Limp home mode is no fun either. I hadn't realized until now that 4WD adds more complexity and labor time to the job. I'm sure when I eventually get the car up on ramps and the wheel arch cover removed, I'll appreciate how much obstruction the drive shafts create.

One problem is that the dpf is not just the filter, see the pics in the link below :

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/SKODA-OCTAVIA-2-0-TDi-4x4-BMM-ENGINE-07-06-ON-DIESEL-PARTICULATE-FILTER-DPF-/131564447957?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202351%2526meid%253Daf60c9f6ca674c7587e4f456520f5fa4%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D2%2526rkt%253D11%2526sd%253D200895218696&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

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One problem is that the dpf is not just the filter, see the pics in the link below :

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/SKODA-OCTAVIA-2-0-TDi-4x4-BMM-ENGINE-07-06-ON-DIESEL-PARTICULATE-FILTER-DPF-/131564447957?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202351%2526meid%253Daf60c9f6ca674c7587e4f456520f5fa4%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D2%2526rkt%253D11%2526sd%253D200895218696&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

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Yes, when I followed one of the shop links it took me to exhaust system centering and alignment (when cold) so I added another week on for my Karma therapy.

 

I get the feeling the Stealer charges 1-2K for this job, which is 90% of the parts cost, does this sound about right? Hmm, I think I'll spend £500 on the Karma getaway and do it myself. But I still haven't seen an ugly photo of a blocked up E189 EGR valve to convince me all the effort will lead to a result. It leaves me cold there is all this fuss about ECU recalls when there seems to be this common issue on an important component in the emission control design. And will my EGR suffer more or less after they have messed about with the ECU?  I will also need to check the DPF loading before doing anything. Don't want to do all the work only to find the original DPF has also got nearly clogged and will fault afterwards. Many say the inlet manifold also gets gunked up, so it seems the whole EGR shooting match has to be inspected.

 

I still want to hook up with somebody here that has done it or an EGR removal/blanking on the Yeti 4WD.

The parts/labour cost on mine was about £420/£700 and four days in the workshop. Still hurts just thinking about it. I've had the recall letter. Don't feel to inclined to do anything at the moment.

 

Andy

Edited 28 December, 201510 yr by AndyC

Thanks, I read about 8 hours workshop time. Guess @ Stealership £75 per hour = £600 @20% vat = £720 + parts say £250=£970 total. So your quote seems a good price and they have the tools. I'm not inclined either but as long as the EGR holds up I'll get a tick in the box then probably consider plan 'B' Stage 1 whilst the car is on the ramps for 5 days. If I then discover nasty stuff in the EGR, DPF and manifolds I can consider factoring that in at the same time. Damn these cars are getting too complicated and expensive to own!

 

One thing I found adding weight to the EGR problems is oil mist carry over from the breather, particularly with high compression diesels. If you think about it, exhaust gases on their own should not be clogging up the valve.  The problem with all these VAG engines is there is insufficient space on top of the engine to design an efficient breather oil catch system. I have bought a couple of vortex type oil catchers and some silicone hose, so it might be time to look at getting that in during a tear down.

Edited 28 December, 201510 yr by voxmagna

I had a 1.9 pd Octavia and changed the oil at 6000 miles and only used shell fuel we sold it with 60,000 miles on the clock and never had egr issues .now I have a 140 yeti I will change the oil at 10,000 with long life and hope it helps .I spoke to someone at the RAC who said the shell v power was supposed to help with the egr we will have to see

If the EGR valve is going to stay and work, what helps is stopping oil mist carry over from the breather which hits the hotter exhaust gases, then leaves burned oil crud behind in the EGR valve. The higher the mileage, the greater the piston ring blow back and more oil carried over. The only oil that might help would be the ashless burning type I put in my outboard fuel, but I don't think synthetic motor oils are like that.

Edited 30 December, 201510 yr by voxmagna

If your a DIYer and do your own servicing this might be of interest to you.

For many years, I have used Comma Oil products.

 

For the Yeti Diesel's a low saps oil is recommended. 

 

This is from Technical Services Comma Oils.

 

I can confirm Prolife 5W-30 is the correct choice for these vehicles. This oil meets the latest performance specification as outlined by the manufacturer. Prolife uses low saps (sulphated ash, phosphorous and sulphur) chemistry for vehicles with exhaust after treatments systems. This insures when the oil is burned, minimal deposits should remain that can affect the EGR system and block the DPF.

 

Kind regards,

 

(Cosan Technical)

 

As I have said, this is just for your information.

Best price I've seen is £35.63 free p/p for 5 Ltrs.

Continues.

 

The quality of fuel can have an impact on the engine and EGR performance. All fuels including supermarket fuels sold in this country have to adhere to British Standards and therefore should perform to a suitable level without issues to the engine. However, advanced fuels such as Shell V-Power are generally excepted to contain superior technology and keep engines cleaner.

 

According the manufacturer the recommended oil change intervals are:

 

Extended drain= 30,000 km/ 24 months

Normal= 15,000 km/ 12 months

 

Prolife 5W-30 meets the requirements for extended drain however if you did wish to change the oil earlier, this will only help to keep the engine running smoothly.

 

 

To all my customers I have recommended a yearly Oil Service. Simply for the reasons above.

If your vehicle is under warranty this can be done by a VAT registered garage & all invoices kept for proof of service.

 

This is only my opinion & the above info is for guidance only. What you do at the end of the day is your choice.

CD

There are a couple of vag dealers (Cardiff Audi and a vw dealer in Scotland) who sell quantum platinum longlife 3 (507.00 spec) on eBay, normally less than £25 delivered for 5 litres.

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It's possible to physically blank the EGR quite easily - the EGR pipe enters the cylinder head at the rear, then comes out the front where it's very easy to access.

You can buy a blanking plate for less than a tenner that just requires you to slacken the two pipe fixing screws, drop the plate in (the screw holes in the plate are slotted for this purpose), and then re-tighten.

 

This will physically disable the EGR, but you'll get a warning light.

 

To get rid of the warning light, you'll need it mapping out of the ECU - there are loads of companies who can do this for you, and shouldn't cost a huge amount.

Or if you get the car remapped (for performance gains) they'll probably do this as well for free.

Edited 4 January, 201610 yr by muddyboots

It's possible to physically blank the EGR quite easily - the EGR pipe enters the cylinder head at the rear, then comes out the front where it's very easy to access.

You can buy a blanking plate for less than a tenner that just requires you to slacken the two pipe fixing screws, drop the plate in (the screw holes in the plate are slotted for this purpose), and then re-tighten.

 

This will physically disable the EGR, but you'll get a warning light.

 

To get rid of the warning light, you'll need it mapping out of the ECU - there are loads of companies who can do this for you, and shouldn't cost a huge amount.

Or if you get the car remapped (for performance gains) they'll probably do this as well for free.

Thanks, I knew about EGR blanking and the ECU re-map. I'm holding off on remaps until the car gets its tick in the box after recall. I also need to interpret vcds for DPF loading because if the EGR is badly gunked I might expect the DPF to have suffered. By way of follow up I'll tell you what I did to get what will probably be a temporary fix to this problem. I scanned with vcds, cleared the fault codes, took the Yeti for a short drive and got the glow plug and MIL lights back on. Then I decided to try giving it a good thrashing. I drove it hard for about a mile at 4500 rpm in third or fourth (I think) whilst also taking the motor up and down to 4500 rpm with aggressive (for a Yeti) acceleration. 4500 rpm is just below red line. Now there are no warnings but I'm clearing the fault memory to watch for any more on the basis it might be three strikes to put on the warning. Still wanting to buy some more time I'll pour in some engine cleaner and give it another thrashing. I think a lot of these TDI issues arise because of short journey low rpm driving. We keep both our TDi's at 2K + rpm on the tacho, which is where most turbos start to bite and engine heat starts to rise. Unfortunately, we didn't get the Yeti at sufficient low mileage to be confident it has been used the way we drive.

 

From what I understand about EGR operation, the bypass loop is only open at idle to low rpm and there is still the issue of oil carry over to look at. I'm concluding that keeping the rpm down, frequent traffic holdups during commutes, short run cold starts and city driving a TDi is a bad thing.

 

When the weather improves and I'm in good Karma I'll get the Yeti up on the ramps and peruse the challenges ahead. Can somebody confirm which vcds measuring block gives the dpf loading and how the data is interpreted, because I have this feeling it is opposite to logic i.e the ECU data is DPF emptyness % not fullness %.

Edited 7 January, 201610 yr by voxmagna

Can't remember which blocks they are now, but I've done a lot of soot loading measurements before.

Essentialy there are two measurements - a "calculated" loading and a "measured" loading, in grams I thinks. The values increase as the loading increases.

 

By the way - you can get the EGR mapped out without having a performance increase - IE all that's changed in the map is the EGR function.

 

Good luck getting under the car to see the EGR - I've been under and had a look when my EGR pipe was split, I could barely even see the pipe, let alone get anywhere near it. Unless you've got good mechanic skills, tools and lots of patience, I'd get it done at a decent independent garage. 

Incidentally, when I got the old EGR pipe back, I had a look - expecting to see a lot of soot buildup - instead it was just a fine covering, which was a relief, especially as the rate of soot loading (and DPF regen frequency) has more than doubled since my remap.

Edited 7 January, 201610 yr by muddyboots

IIRC it's measuring blocks 068 and 069 for the dpf info. The soot loading is in % and the ash is in ml. I think the max ash is something like 175ml.

I can't remember the soot loading points at which regens occur.

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Thanks. By the way,  has anybody ideas to detect (whilst driving) when DPF regen actually occurs?  I know vcds dates the regen after the event. I was wondering if something simple like a K-type thermal probe fixed to the dpf can would reliably detect the dpf regen so I could add a light into the cockpit.

 

I'm o.k with mechanics and tear downs. I've read the shop procedure. Lots off things to come off just to get access. I've stripped motors for re-bores and crank grinds in the past, but this is no longer cost effective and most of the problems on modern vehicles are electronics and control related. I'm o.k with that too.

 

Interesting comment about dpf load increase and remap. I have Stage 1 on an older Tdi and mpg has improved from 45 ish to 53 mpg which to me suggested a better map, but perhaps it depends on how you use the extra horses? I shall keep an eye on the soot loading. The remap left in the OE EGR and dpf regen function.

 

I looked briefly at what was required for an engine crane lift and there didn't seem a lot more to do.

Edited 8 January, 201610 yr by voxmagna

There are different kinds of regeneration.

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If you could use a probe that was happy with 650+ºC then in theory yes - although you can sometimes get up to those temps under hard driving too.

 

Another option would be to get a bluetooth OBD adapter, and use an app on a phone to monitor temps. Some apps such as Torque can monitor a variety of parameters live, although last time I looked I couldn't see EGTs anywhere. Maybe possible to add custom fields ? I'm not sure. I'd be interested if you could.

 

Yet another option could be something like the Polar FIS, this adds custom displays to Maxidot, you'd want to if EGTs are supported - I've never looked.

 

Alternately, listen for the subtle change in exhaust note (my 170 gets gruff around 1500rpm when doing an active regen) and change in idle speed - it's around 50rpm higher than usual. Regens usually last around 10 mins ish, so you can easily miss these signs though!

Edited 8 January, 201610 yr by muddyboots

Interesting comment about dpf load increase and remap. I have Stage 1 on an older Tdi and mpg has improved from 45 ish to 53 mpg which to me suggested a better map, but perhaps it depends on how you use the extra horses? I shall keep an eye on the soot loading. The remap left in the OE EGR and dpf regen function.

The soot loading is of course worse when using the extra power, but it's also noticeably worse on light throttle driving too.

Pre-remap I was getting maybe 250 miles between regens, 200 if I've been enjoying myself.

Post-remap I can get around 100-150 miles, or down to 70-80 miles if I really exploit the map.

 

I'm led to believe that disabling EGR helps reduce soot...so I plan to blank mine and get it mapped out at some point, probably when I get a re-remap after the emissions fix.

The Egr going tits up is something that scares the life out of me as I know it costs a fortune to fix. Getting a years warranty with the car when I get it tomorrow so fingers crossed.

 

Is it still a big job to block off the egr and get it taken out of the ecu. What difference will it make to performance and emissions for the MOT

 

Thanks

 

Glenn