Fabia VRS Reliability at 200bhp

[GoddersVRS]

Hi guys,

My first post on here so hello!

I am currently in the market for a Mk1 VRS PD130 and have a question about power vs reliability (the age old dilemma!)

Say I was to push one to around 200bhp/350lb/ft (full exhaust, FMIC, uprated clutch etc plus a custom map) would it be reliable beyond 100k? Or would you rather less power and torque for the sake of longevity?

The base car would undoubtedly be a FSH example without issue, but a lot are knocking on the door of 100k nowadays.

Obviously it is dependant on upkeep but from what I've read an oil and filter every 6k should be acceptable on such a power level?

Basically what I'm asking is would it be more sensible to effectively de-tune this kind of spec to, say, 185bhp/300lb/ft or would that make no real difference to reliability?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Rob

[hutchysrs50]

IMO they are reliable up to around 200,000. I've read the bottom end is good for 300,000 but could be rubbish.

Basically 100k miles is nothing, my previous has 140k and was over 220bhp if that helps. The unreliable things such as clutch and turbo is the things your changing so not much to worry about.

To get over 200bhp you'll need...

- decat the exhaust at least

- uprated turbo, hybrid or GTB, your choice

- FMIC

Rest is fine really, standard clutch and flywheel can handle that if it's in OK shape.

[sepulchrave]

Decatting the exhaust at 200 BHP won't add anything at all, you just got trapped into petrol FGT thinking Hutchy.

 

The engines themselves are extremely reliable as long as the correct oil has been used and oil change intervals have been observed throughout the vehicles life.

 

The clutch and flywheel will be 'tired' at 100k so you need to budget for them, the rest as Hutchy said plus the cost of a clutch friendly remap of course.

[GoddersVRS]

Thanks for your input guys, good to hear.

I've heard of the standard turbo being okay at 200bhp or is this asking for trouble? If so what is the safe limit before an upgrade is required?

Edited 1 January, 2016 by GoddersVRS

[faboka vrs]

Agreed doing anything to the exhaust is just a waste of time. To get 200bhp you need a bigger turbo and FMIC nothing else. You'll likely need a new clutch depending on its current state and how you drive.

[faboka vrs]

Standard turbo flows enough air for around 165-170bhp with low smoke. That's around 1.5bar at 4000rpm. A VB turbo off the PD150 is good for around 195-200bhp at around 1.7bar at 4000rpm.

Of course you can just take it to a different dyno and you may make 200bhp still only feel like 170bhp

Edited 1 January, 2016 by faboka vrs

[coskev]

As above really

Regards a decent mapper,he's posted above

[GoddersVRS]

Right okay so running 200bhp on the stock turbo is a very bad idea... noted!

Is there much point in running a larger FMIC and exhaust with the standard turbo if it can still only be pushed to a safe 170 bhp?

Roughly speaking how much does a PD150 turbo go for? A quick ebay hasn't revealed very much! It seems this would be the way to go for decent but reliable power.

[StevesTruck]

Don't forget head bolts.

[sepulchrave]

Higher boost pressures = higher inlet temperatures.

 

If you want to actually use the extra performance the standard intercooler simply won't cope, you'll just lose power due to heat soak.

[faboka vrs]

Stock SMIC with stock map can hit 90c is less than 20 seconds at WOT depending on outside temp. If it's a ASZ engine then you will start to notice more smoke then normal as the temps rise. If it's a BLT then the Ecu will start to reduce turbo pressure in the hope to lower intake temps. So yes a FMIC is worth it if to maintain power if you like going for a "drive". If you only do the odd blast then it may not be worth the cost.

Exhaust and intake just leave it as it is. No point changing stuff which doesn't need to.

[GoddersVRS]

Okay thank you, to be honest it is going to have a predominantly easy life commuting to and from work, but for the odd spirited blast it sounds like a FMIC may still be a worthile addition to keep it reliable, regardless of power level.

The main decision seems to be whether to stay at 170 bhp on a stock blower or shell out for a PD150 turbo to gain another 30...

[mattbvRS]

If you want to hit the 200bhp mark and keep it reliable I'd echo what others have said. It's better to run a turbo within it's limits then push the standard one far beyond. A hybrid PD150 should do ~200bhp or the other alternative would be the GTB1756vk for a bit more head room (up to ~220bhp according to darkside). 

 

That being said a FMIC is a must when changing the turbo, the standard one suffers badly with heat soak after a few WOT runs on a hot day even as standard. The exhaust I wouldn't bother messing with unless you want the sound.

 

To be fair just a remap on an otherwise standard car does wonders, it feels like a completely different animal to drive. So it's worth doing for what it costs to see if you think you'll then want the extra power. You can add things like a FMIC to the standard set up and then change the turbo further down the line. 

 

My money would be going on improving the handling a bit too, RARB and bushes should help firm things up nicely and reduce body roll while keeping it comfortable for a daily commuter. 

[sepulchrave]

Okay thank you, to be honest it is going to have a predominantly easy life commuting to and from work, but for the odd spirited blast it sounds like a FMIC may still be a worthile addition to keep it reliable, regardless of power level.

The main decision seems to be whether to stay at 170 bhp on a stock blower or shell out for a PD150 turbo to gain another 30...

 

I'd say just get a decent faboka remap and leave it bog standard otherwise, that will give the 100k stock clutch the best chance of longevity.

 

Focus on the shocking handling as mattb wisely says, that's the best bang for your buck by far, at 100k the standard suspension will be very tired and it was never good even when new.

[GoddersVRS]

The clutch would be upgraded for sure, as said a 100k old clutch is unlikely to enjoy any kind of power increase!

The handling will be looked at also but is not a priority, I have another car for the twisty stuff and track days!

If I did want 190-200bhp you can get a remanufactured GT1749VB from a company in Bradford for £300 on an exchange basis, or a new unit from Darkside for £550, either/both of these be acceptable? Any reason to go with a new rather than remanufactured one?

[faboka vrs]

With a new unit you won't have to worry about setting up the actuator and stop screw unlike a refurb unit.

[GoddersVRS]

Is that not something that would be taken care of whilst mapping anyway or is it above and beyond?

[faboka vrs]

If the actuator is way out then no mapping will fix it.

[mattbvRS]

I'd personally pay a bit more for a new turbo if I was doing it, you never know what your getting with a re-manufactured one. If you do go for a re-manufactured turbo to keep the costs down, which I fully understand there is quite a difference, make sure it's from a reputable company and stay away from eBay specials. 

[GoddersVRS]

Can you recommend a reputable company Matt? At almost half the cost of a new unit it seems very tempting...

Is there anything else specific needed to fit a PD150 turbo over a stock one?

[theezenutz]

Have you tried xman? He's a member on here that supplies reconditioned turbos.

[Jonny5ive]

Have a chat with T.Spark concerning reliability of Fabia's running 200bhp. He bought mine with 153k on the clock and AFAIK it's nearing 190k now.

I bought it in 2004 with 17k on it and ran 165bhp until 120k when the standard turbo went pop.

[stevobeavo]

Can you recommend a reputable company Matt? At almost half the cost of a new unit it seems very tempting...

Is there anything else specific needed to fit a PD150 turbo over a stock one?

You'll need blanking plates for the egr. A decent hybrid turbo from a proper company will run 230bhp all day long. With the right spec they can run reliably upto 260bhp.

But a fmic and clutch is needed for 200bhp and I'd recommend uprating the brakes

[GoddersVRS]

Thanks for all the replies so far guys, all very helpful so I appreciate it!

I've been speaking to a friend who works for Turbo Dynamics who should be able to do me a good price on a GT1749VB or an MDX446 hybrid for a little more.

The latter with a FMIC and EGR delete should see an easy and safe 200bhp by the sounds of things with bags of torque and a quick spool, correct? Hopefully that setup should be super reliable too...

[faboka vrs]

The turbo dynamics Tunis are good. Probably get around 210 running 1.85bar.

Edited 1 January, 2016 by faboka vrs