2016 F1 General Discussion Thread

[Wet Kipper]

Seemed like there was hardly any disadvantage for Hamilton in his "55 place" penalty or however many it was.

 

Maybe once the penalty gets them beyond the back of the grid, they should make it a pit lane start and the number of places penalty would be the number of seconds "head start" that they have to give everyone else.

[camelspyyder]

Rules are Rules, even if they're stupid.

 

Although maybe the teams that are close to Merc could do this for one car at every race, 

 

They'd be able to thrash an engine for one race instead of making it last four+ and perhaps we'd see closer competition up front.

Edited 30 August, 2016 by camelspyyder

[YellowCar]

Seemed like there was hardly any disadvantage for Hamilton in his "55 place" penalty or however many it was.

 

Maybe once the penalty gets them beyond the back of the grid, they should make it a pit lane start and the number of places penalty would be the number of seconds "head start" that they have to give everyone else.

A pit lane start is arguably preferable, by the time you've caught the pack everything's up to temperature and there's more space to race and get through. Avoids turn 1 madness.

Choosing Spa to take his penalties was entirely tactical as safety cars are highly likely, and it worked. What's that? Well done you say?

[gadgetman]

But there'd be outrage if Rosberg had done that.

[YellowCar]

The Old Boys Club supposedly respect the other old boys and their racing errors now that they are all older and lucky in some cases to still be in F1.

Many still there because they made so much money when they were just as new and fresh and really trying and with better reactions.

 

Time some more moved on from F1 and let the real talent get racing the latest technology.

Kimi protests too often and those out bursts should be towards Sebastian quite often.

Vettel's not that old is he? Certainly not old enough to question whether he should be on the grid. Just seems he can't handle frustration particularly well, something he never really had to deal with in the Red Bull glory days, unfortunately for him it's a common theme for Ferrari at the moment.

I get your point about Kimi though, although his radio comms are tv gold. Kimi is actually outperforming Vettel by and large, and he is one of the 'old boys'.

[Ootohere]

No not old, just in the old boy clique.

Jenson Button in there just 'bed blocking'.  Kimi just in there being Kimi.

[blueR36]

Seemed like there was hardly any disadvantage for Hamilton in his "55 place" penalty or however many it was.

 

Maybe once the penalty gets them beyond the back of the grid, they should make it a pit lane start and the number of places penalty would be the number of seconds "head start" that they have to give everyone else.

Or a lap  down

[blueR36]

No not old, just in the old boy clique.

Jenson Button in there just 'bed blocking'.  Kimi just in there being Kimi.

Alonso is supposed to be the most talented and paid driver, and he doesn't embarrass Button , and Button got his car into the top ten , neither of them has a great reliable car

[camelspyyder]

Kimi only has a job this year (and next) because the team's driving force (Vettel) is completely happy with a team mate who is slower 90% of the time. Why else did the queue of guys in line for the second Ferrari not get a call. Bottas, Sainz, Hulkenburg would all do a better job, as would Perez (former Ferrari junior) or Grosjean (current Ferrari B-teamer who blew Kimi away when theh were teamed at Lotus)

Kimi is mostly past it, but Spa is one of his top tracks - 4 time winner I think.

[camelspyyder]

Button unfortunately is out of contract and...slower than vanDoorne.

He's done.

Kimi should be too.

Edited 30 August, 2016 by camelspyyder

[tweenster]

As excited as I was when Frank Williams gave Button his F1 chance I have been continually underwhelmed by his performances. When everything is right he is unbeatable but, unlike the really great drivers, when the car is nor perfect he disappears into midfield mediocrity and is unable to take a car by the scruff of the neck and drag it round faster than it deserves. Jenson is a lovely fella but I do think it is time for him to move on.

 

As for Alonso I would like to see him continue as he still seems to have the fire in his belly and his drive at Spa was brilliant. I would also like to see Kimi continue; I don't know what it is about him but I just like him!

[camelspyyder]

I seem to remember Jenson lost his job at Renault to a test driver called...Alonso.

 

Then he and his management mucked about in the BAR - Williams legal tug of war for several years. That could easily have ended his career, and so could the Earth dream Hondas.

 

However, when the right car came along he beat talented teammate Barrichello in it, and held off the faster Vettel / Red Bull combination to seal the title.

 

Since then his high point must be outscoring the somewhat distracted Hamilton in most of their McLaren years, but for me he's 2 years past his sell by date. K-Mag did enough to get the drive for 2015, but Ron Dennis was unable to convince Honda and the revolt in the McL boardroom kept Jenson on board - and condemned him to a pretty sad back-of-the-grid 2 years.

[YellowCar]

I seem to remember Jenson lost his job at Renault to a test driver called...Alonso.

 

Then he and his management mucked about in the BAR - Williams legal tug of war for several years. That could easily have ended his career, and so could the Earth dream Hondas.

 

However, when the right car came along he beat talented teammate Barrichello in it, and held off the faster Vettel / Red Bull combination to seal the title.

 

Since then his high point must be outscoring the somewhat distracted Hamilton in most of their McLaren years, but for me he's 2 years past his sell by date. K-Mag did enough to get the drive for 2015, but Ron Dennis was unable to convince Honda and the revolt in the McL boardroom kept Jenson on board - and condemned him to a pretty sad back-of-the-grid 2 years.

I don't remember him out scoring Lewis at McLaren particularly well? I do remember Lewis getting a few podiums and points when their car was ****, more so than Button.

[gadgetman]

As excited as I was when Frank Williams gave Button his F1 chance I have been continually underwhelmed by his performances. When everything is right he is unbeatable but, unlike the really great drivers, when the car is nor perfect he disappears into midfield mediocrity and is unable to take a car by the scruff of the neck and drag it round faster than it deserves. Jenson is a lovely fella but I do think it is time for him to move on.

As for Alonso I would like to see him continue as he still seems to have the fire in his belly and his drive at Spa was brilliant. I would also like to see Kimi continue; I don't know what it is about him but I just like him!

I recall an interview with button years ago when he acknowledged that he didn't pay attention, and just "turned up" expecting the engineers to set the car up and do all the things drivers are expected to do with regards to testing, development etc. Unlike the new wave who probably know every nut & bolt as well as their engineers.

Said it was his biggest regret.

[YellowCar]

I recall an interview with button years ago when he acknowledged that he didn't pay attention, and just "turned up" expecting the engineers to set the car up and do all the things drivers are expected to do with regards to testing, development etc. Unlike the new wave who probably know every nut & bolt as well as their engineers.

Said it was his biggest regret.

And that's partly what set people like Prost, Senna, Alonso, Lauda and Schumacher apart from everyone else. The ability to galvanise a team through having an intricate knowledge, appreciation and awareness of just about everything and having a massive amount of talent.

Just relying on ability will only get you so far for so long. Alonso is still one of the best all round drivers on the grid, I now forgive him for his year of questionable attitude and approach when he had freshman Lewis for a teammate.

Edited 30 August, 2016 by YellowCar

[camelspyyder]

I don't remember him out scoring Lewis at McLaren particularly well? I do remember Lewis getting a few podiums and points when their car was ****, more so than Button.

 

Button got it 672 to 657 over 3 years - it's an isolated stat in his favour in their head to head but nonetheless a fact.

 

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/hamilton-and-buttons-head-to-head-record-at-mclaren/

[Wet Kipper]

 Jenson is a lovely fella but I do think it is time for him to move on.

 

 

Co presenter / Stig  in next series of Top Gear, unless Amazon poach him 

[YellowCar]

Button got it 672 to 657 over 3 years - it's an isolated stat in his favour in their head to head but nonetheless a fact.

 

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/hamilton-and-buttons-head-to-head-record-at-mclaren/

Pretty marginal. And I won't be reading too much into that as I expect Lewis had more podiums and more memorable performances over that period?

[camelspyyder]

Pretty marginal. And I won't be reading too much into that as I expect Lewis had more podiums and more memorable performances over that period?

 

Nope. Button had more podiums too!

 

Closer on wins than I would have thought - Lewis 10 Jenson 8

 

Unfortunately at that stage of his career Lewis most memorable drives involved crashing into Massa (frequently) or the barriers at Monza.

Edited 31 August, 2016 by camelspyyder

[camelspyyder]

Hamilton v Button stats compared (highest respective tally in bold)

Qualifying
Faster qualifying time: Hamilton 44 / Button 14
Poles: Hamilton 9 / Button 1
Front rows: Hamilton: 23 / Button 9

Races
Wins: Hamilton 10 / Button 8
Podiums: Hamilton 22 / Button 25
Points finishes: Hamilton 45 / Button 47 
DNFs: Hamilton 13 / Button 8
Best race result (inc DNFs): Hamilton 32 / Button 26
Ahead in two-car finish: Hamilton 24 / Button 13

Championship
Overall points: Hamilton 657 / Button 672
Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1
Highest championship placing: Hamilton 4th (2010, 2012) / Button 2nd (2011)

[YellowCar]

Hamilton v Button stats compared (highest respective tally in bold)

Qualifying

Faster qualifying time: Hamilton 44 / Button 14

Poles: Hamilton 9 / Button 1

Front rows: Hamilton: 23 / Button 9

Races

Wins: Hamilton 10 / Button 8

Podiums: Hamilton 22 / Button 25

Points finishes: Hamilton 45 / Button 47 

DNFs: Hamilton 13 / Button 8

Best race result (inc DNFs): Hamilton 32 / Button 26

Ahead in two-car finish: Hamilton 24 / Button 13

Championship

Overall points: Hamilton 657 / Button 672

Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1

Highest championship placing: Hamilton 4th (2010, 2012) / Button 2nd (2011)

Some surprising results there. Lewis' DNFs probably account for the deficit. And I certainly wouldn't call 15 points advantage over 3 years 'outperforming'. And it's probably the wins and poles that people remember.

[camelspyyder]

All I wrote was he "outscored" Lewis.

 

Surprising but true.

 

None of Lewis other F1 team-mates have done that.

 

It shouldn't have happened based on pure talent but all through the "Nicole" years Lewis seemed to lack focus, hence his DNF's - penultimate lap crashes, skirmishes with Ferraris - many of those DNF's were self-inflicted if we're honest.

Edited 31 August, 2016 by camelspyyder

[YellowCar]

All I wrote was he "outscored" Lewis.

 

Surprising but true.

 

None of Lewis other F1 team-mates have done that.

 

It shouldn't have happened based on pure talent but all through the "Nicole" years Lewis seemed to lack focus, hence his DNF's - penultimate lap crashes, skirmishes with Ferraris - many of those DNF's were self-inflicted if we're honest.

They were. That was his bad patch no doubt. There was one time he was drawn to Massa in particular like a magnet. But he came through it, as top drivers do, as Max will also do I expect.

[moley]

Allan McNish appears to have the same view as I do regarding the incidents at Spa. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37226080

[Wet Kipper]

So Massa announces his retirement after this season.

Will Williams take Button? Much as I like JB I'm not sure he'll do well