Hi all,

 

I have recently bought a 2nd hand Skoda Octavia Elegance 2.0 TDI '05 plate, and generally I'm really happy with the car, it's mechanically sound and goes nicely, but it has an odd issue which I wanted to see if anyone else has had, and could give some advice on:-

 

The first time it happened, I was using the cruise control and suddenly after applying the brake to release cruise control for the 4th or 5th time on this journey, I went to apply power, and there was nothing, no turbo sound, no power, I could literally floor the throttle and no engine response, nothing.  When coming to a junction, it would pull away fine but it's very very sluggish, almost like someone in applying the brake or something, and again, flooring the throttle makes no difference, it would just very slowly make it's way through the gears, it can get back up to 70-80,mph but it just takes it's time about it.  Again, mechanically, I think the car is sound.  On this journey, I got to my destination, looked up cruise control issues online, and I believe through this forum, found a post about somthing which sounded similar.  I think the general concensus was that either the turbo was on the blink, or there was something wrong with the stick which operates the cruise control.  Anyway, next morning, I start the engine, and it is fine, the turbo whistle is back, it is rapid again, the problem appears to have gone.  Then a few days later, I get the problem when not using the cruise control, I think I am going along at about 70mph and suddenly, I feel something, not sure if it is in the throttle foot, but something didn't feel quite right, and again, when I go to accelerate, nothing.  So I pull over, turn engine off, back on again and it's perfect again.

 

On a journey today and yesterday it happened about 3 times on each journey.  Each time, upon pulling over and restarting the engine, it's fine.  1 thing I should mention, which I have noticed today.  When the problem occurs, when the engine is idling, there is a constant note from the turbo, a whistle, but at a constant low pitch.

 

I have taken the car back to the garage I bought it from, I have a 6 month warranty with them.  They have put it on the computer to find error codes and found nothing.  The engine management light doesn't come on.  They have tried to replicate the fault by taking the car out, but cant.  The annoying thng is it is very intermittent, and can take 40 miles or so to occur, or can occur very quickly.  I want to be able to give them some idea of what it is so they can see if they can locate the fault, coz at the moment it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

I would think the turbo is on the blink and about to pack up, but when restarting the engine the problem vanishes, so should I assume it is an electrical problem?

 

Any help would be appreciated, and thanks for reading!

 

Jamie.

Edited 26 January, 201610 yr by papalazarou

The symptoms very much describe limp-home mode where the car limits the power in the event of a problem to prevent further damage.

 

However limp-home mode is always accompanied by a warning light, either the EML, glowplug light or both. It also always logs a fault code, but you say you've had neither?

 

A failing turbo nearly always ends up in limp-home mode too so I, like you, would be thinking along the lines of the turbo.

 

Another possible problem is the accelerator pedal, which can cause the intermittent issues you describe and can be linked to the cruise control, however again this should result in a fault code.

 

What diagnostics equipment is the garage using? VCDS is really needed here.

Could be sticking VNT vanes. I had that same set of symptoms on my 07 2.0TDI. Probably the same engine as yours - BKD. 

 

I would also get that low whistle/whine from the turbo when idling for a few minutes. Blipping the throttle would make it go away again. 

 

I needed a new turbo shortly after. 

 

It's also worth noting, I had occurrences of power loss and NO warning lamp on the dash. A quick restart would cure the problem for a while. It was logging faults though, turbo overboost came up during a VCDS scan. 

 

As already stated, you need a proper diagnostic scan of your car. Some generic scanners don't always catch every fault. 

Sounds like sticky turbo vanes, try some turbo cleaner such as archoil. Restarting the car resets the limp mode hence it feels fine again.

Edited 26 January, 201610 yr by wiilydog

Thanks for both of your replies guys.  This is really helpful.  I am going to speak with the garage tomorrow, as I am convinced the turbo is about to die on me now, especially after what you have said dstev. I have 6 months warranty on the car, which is limited to £500, but to be honest, I don't feel I should bare the cost as the problem first occurred the day after I picked up the car.  It was clearly there before.  I don't think the garage are crooks and I think they probably didn't know of the issue, but when asked to replace a turbo on a car they probably only made a few hundred quid on, that could test their customer service!

 

Just as a side note, I do occassionaly get the lamp warning light come on, but on the computer readout it would say there was a front parking light fault and also a back brake light fault, when I originally took the car back to the garage they say they have sorted this, although on 1 or 2 occassions I have had the light come on again.  The main engine management light has never come on, just the one which looks like a lit-bulb.  Could this issue cause that light to come on and not the engine management light?

 

Thanks again for your help.

The blown-bulb warning system is quite sensitive.

 

It tends to pick up bulbs that are about to fail, might be worth changing out the bulbs to see if this helps.

 

Is it an estate or a hatchback, the brake light bulbs on the hatch are 21W/4W (twin filament), on the estate they are 21W (single filament).

 

See this thread on how to replace the front W5W side light bulb...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/64315-howto-new-octavia-headlight-bulb-change/

Edited 26 January, 201610 yr by silver1011

...

However limp-home mode is always accompanied by a warning light, either the EML, glowplug light or both. It also always logs a fault code, but you say you've had neither?

...

 

Not always. I've had a problem with my turbo not producing enough boost (long story) which resulted in limp mode and underboost code logged but had no warning light on the dasboard.

 

To OP, I'd also say this looks like sticking vanes. Get the garage check if the actuator arm is moving freely. They should know how to diagnose sticking vanes though.

Thanks guys, I will do that in the first instance.  The turbo is also pretty noisey during normal operation, and my wife pointed out it sounds like a police siren in the background whilst driving.  Is that likely to be more worrying than just sticking vanes, and could point to it about to fail?  The last thing I want to do is get the garage to clean the vanes and then a week later the turbo fails anyway.

 

Thanks.

Actually, could someone confirm what the rough cost would be to replace the turbo in this car please?  I am thinking I may be better off just using the £500 warranty the car came with to replace the turbo.  I assume I would need to go for something reconditioned to get it within that sort of price range?  Thanks.

Almost all turbo's are reconditioned.

 

The value of the old / damaged turbo is offset against the cost of the refurb one, a bit like a part exchange.

 

Fitted, I would budget for £700 - £900.

 

My recon turbo (fitted under warranty) from a Skoda main dealer was £1,400 a good few years ago.

 

These guys don't even need the old turbo back, 40 sold according to the eBay listing...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TURBO-CHARGER-SKODA-OCTAVIA-1Z-2-0-TDI-16V-103-KW-140-HP-04-BKD-AZV-/381017681286?hash=item58b66c6d86:g:ycQAAOSwHjNWA8zJ

Edited 26 January, 201610 yr by silver1011

If the car is high mileage, it's prudent to go for a decent recon turbo, rather than spending bad money after good getting the old and worn turbo removed, cleaned and replaced. All of the moving parts have suffered wear and tear.

 

When my BKD turbo failed, I got an exchange unit from TurboTechnics (plenty of others out there) and had my local Skoda indy fit it for me along with a new high pressure oil feed pipe, oil return/drain pipe and an oil change. This was quite a few years ago so can't comment on prices, but it was MILES cheaper than a dealer will ever be. 

However limp-home mode is always accompanied by a warning light, either the EML, glowplug light or both. It also always logs a fault code, but you say you've had neither?

 

On my mk1 Diesel (I know things have moved on now), but I only ever once saw a warning light on the dash when it went into overboost, and mine overboosted a lot.  The Mr Muscle treatment worked on that (if I did it ever 6 months), but I am not sure how friendly that is with a DPF (although your car may not have one).

 

Now sure quite how accessable the turbo is on these, but on the mark1 you could easily get your thumb to it and apply suction (from your mouth) to see if the actuator moved as it should do - smoothly without any creaking/groaning.

Edited 26 January, 201610 yr by mbames

Hi guys,

 

Just got back from the garage, and the guy reckons it's the EGR valve.  I mentioned I had posted on a Skoda forum and the general consensus was that it was either the vanes of the turbo, or the turbo itself.  He said that if it was a turbo going, or vanes, there would be lots of smoke, and it would be obvious, would this be the case?  Also, he mentioned that restarting the engine would not make everything go back to normal, as turbo's are mechanical.  With the EGR valve being blocked with gunk this would cause the symptoms I am getting.  Could anyone confirm if this sounds plausible please?  At first they mentioned that this isn't covered by my warranty, as it is seen as wear and tear (the EGR valve becoming blocked that is), but after getting a little bit assertive about the fact I had just bought the car when it started, he said they would do it free of charge. 

 

1 thing to mention too, I finally got an EML come on on the way to the garage, so the computer displayed "Emissions Workshop!" and I got the EML come on.

if its a turbo problem I think the code is the diagnosticis p0234 or something like that!

Hi guys,

Just got back from the garage, and the guy reckons it's the EGR valve. I mentioned I had posted on a Skoda forum and the general consensus was that it was either the vanes of the turbo, or the turbo itself. He said that if it was a turbo going, or vanes, there would be lots of smoke, and it would be obvious, would this be the case? Also, he mentioned that restarting the engine would not make everything go back to normal, as turbo's are mechanical. With the EGR valve being blocked with gunk this would cause the symptoms I am getting. Could anyone confirm if this sounds plausible please? At first they mentioned that this isn't covered by my warranty, as it is seen as wear and tear (the EGR valve becoming blocked that is), but after getting a little bit assertive about the fact I had just bought the car when it started, he said they would do it free of charge.

1 thing to mention too, I finally got an EML come on on the way to the garage, so the computer displayed "Emissions Workshop!" and I got the EML come on.

Turbo is mechanical, yes, but limp mode is engine protection due to overboost/underboost caused by turbo (in your case) and that is why it gets back to normal when you restart the car. You are not restarting the turbo itself but ecu.

Try to get the car scanned with vcds. In software diagnostic subforum is a map with location of vcds owners or get it scanned in proper garage to confirm it's the turbo and bring it back to the seller.

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk

With blocked EGR you will get EML on as the ECU will sense reduced air flow.

With sticky turbo vanes the code will be stored relating to boost and will not always generate a warning light other than you can feel it going into limp mode and it feels fine again after restarting, so you dealers comments are not entirely true as the turbo is connected to the ECU via sensors. If the new egr doesn't help its worth getting some turbo cleaner which you add to the fuel tank such as archoil.

Another point you made yesterday was the police siren noise which is normally related to faulty turbos so I would keep a close eye on turbo.

Edited 27 January, 201610 yr by wiilydog

Sticking turbo veins don't always log a fault code.

If it's under warranty, get them to fix it, otherwise I'd suggest decoking the turbo with Mr muscle.

scan it I bet it is going into limp mobe after overboost, usually caused by sticky vanes in turbo. Forget any warantee the garage are liable under the sale of goods act, it is generally agreed for 3 months.

Generally speaking, There would only be loads of smoke if a turbo oil seal was leaking. VNT turbos are well known for suffering with sticky vanes, due to the harsh environment they operate in. 

 

And it's already been mentioned but....overboost faults are easily reset by cycling the ignition. I used to do it on the fly when it was occurring frequently!

Hi guys,

 

Right, so with the help of this friendly forum, I quoted the overboost code to them and said that this clearly points to the turbo being damaged/faulty/in need of repair.   I managed to get the garage to change their tune from blaming the EGR valve to blaming the waste gate and saying that the turbo would need a clean.  They claimed to have taken the turbo out, stripped it down, soaked it in a cleaning solution (which is what I made out from what he said to me), and given it back to me, 1 long journey completed with no issues I was a happy bunny, the return journey was a different matter, 3 times it went again, the third time getting the "emission workshop" warning on the computer and the EML.

 

How should I approach this with the garage?  As I mentioned originally, I have a £500 warranty on the car, but knowing that replacing the turbo is going to cost at least £800 fitted they seem unwilling to help.  I am planning on taking the car back to them today, and making a note of the codes which the reader pick up so I can report them back to you guys to see what you think but I am almost certain it will be the P0234 code and Overboost.

 

I can claim the car was not fit for purpose when it was sold to me, but I am not sure I have the stomach for a small claims court legal fight, I have so much going on in my personal life at the moment, I really don't need the additional hassle.

 

If anyone could give me any pointers of what I should say to the garage when I take the car back to them to show them I am serious, I would really appreciate it.

 

Thanks again for all your help guys!

Edited 3 February, 201610 yr by papalazarou

Just politely explain the situation to them, and let them fix it.

 

Even with a second hand car, the garage have to supply a car that is not faulty, and yours clearly is.

 

If they've cleaned the turbo and the veins are now moving freely, it could be down to a broken vacuum pipe or a few other things causing the issue.

Another thing I forgot to mention, at around 70mph, in 6th gear I get a weird vibration in the car, it seems to happen at 70mph and then goes away as I accelerate to around 75mph, and the same at just below 70mph.  I think I have noticed this in other gears as I go through the gears getting up to speed, but obviously as I am accelerating through the gears it only happens for a very brief moment, could that be turbo related?  It is literally only happening when the engine is at a certain rev point it seems to me.

 

EDIT: The vibration isn't in the steering wheel, so I don't think it is tyre related, it is almost as if the vibration is in my accelerator foot, and the engine gets very loud at that point, like a mechanical "meow" at a low pitch, if that makes sense?

Edited 3 February, 201610 yr by papalazarou

Just been told by my local garage that the cam chain rattle is not is not its the turbo waste? Talking about a new turbo? cars 5.5 yrs old with 39k on the clock? Spoke to Skoda and Skoda through VAG not interested. No local history.I told them they told me that they would be having another dealer in there in a few months that was 2 years ago. So not up to a 40mile round trip and sat on my bum for 2/3 hours waiting for it to be serviced so used a local reputable garage that services to Skoda standard. Not interested. So will be phoning SUK customer services guy that the next car in my garage will not be Skoda? Tight fisted bunch of w@@@@@@.

 

Sorry went off subject?

Would a cleanup of the turbo at that mileage do the trick??

 

Grateful for any help???