Oil or water cooled turbo?

[Wolfpred]

First post, so hello everyone.

 

I get my Octavia tomorrow and I had a question regarding the turbo cooling system.

 

In the 1.6 TDI 110 engine, is the turbo water or oil cooled?

 

What I want to do is to give the turbo the best possible life. This means, among other things, to wait a bit in idle before turning the engine off, so I was worried about the start/stop feature. I believe, please correct me, that if the turbo is water cooled the coolant will keep flowing for a while when I turn off the engine, so there's less problem with the start/stop and when turning off the engine after driving. If the turbo is oil cooled, the coolant flow will stop and damage can be done with the start/stop if the oil was too hot.

 

Depending on what I find, I will use/disable the start&stop feature.

 

Thanks!

[Mallettsmallett]

There is a pump that circulates coolant after you switch off. I wouldn't worry too much about it either way.

[Wolfpred]

There is a pump that circulates coolant after you switch off. I wouldn't worry too much about it either way.

 

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

I've been reading this while. A lot. Although I'd still love to hear opinions, my thoughts are more or less like this:

• After heavy use, the turbo is extremely hot. If the oil flow stops and the turbo is in that state, the oil will burn a generate residuals that will damage the turbo in the long term.
• You want to let the turbo cool down while the oil is flowing (therefor not burning).
• If you stop the engine, you will get no oil flow inside the turbo, so even if there's a water cooling system that stays on for a while, the turbo is burning the oil it has stuck inside.

One of the most dangerous situations: a gas station stop in the middle of the highway. How to tackle this? You use the engine brake, foot lifted, starting from top speed while getting into the station. This way the coolant/oil are flowing and cooling the turbo while you are not using it within the minute or so you spend approaching and stopping. That's massive refrigeration for the turbo.

 

Does the Start/Stop damage the turbo? waaaay many mixed opinions. I believe it does, but just a tiny tiny bit because you will resume ignition in seconds and because there's a chance the vehicle has this into account and keeps the oil flowing.

 

I hope someone else finds this interesting/accurate.

[MrAdamwood]

I think you are looking too much into it.

Yes you could damage the turbo by oil starvation if you were to rev the engine right up and then turn it off as the turbo would be turning at massive rpm 150000+ Without oil flow.

But aslong as you let the engine get to idle for a couple of seconds it will be fine!

As for temperature the system has been designed to work in all situations, the turbo is part of the exhaust system .... It gets very hot and even hotter during a regen, and I'm sure like the rest of us there will be times when you turn it off during a regen and the exhaust temps will be up around 650c, it doesn't cool down very fast and sitting idling waiting for it to cool will give you problems with sooting up as the engine will be on 100% egr.

Just enjoy your new car.

Edited 16 May, 2016 by MrAdamwood

[Wolfpred]

Yes, I'm looking too much into it MtAdamwood

 

I'm more moved by curiosity and interest in the subject than taking care of the vehicle (which I want to do, of course, just not so exquisitely xD).

 

So you say maintaining it idle for too long won't be good. I can understand it and its relation to EGR. I also got the general idea that people letting it idle 1 to 2 minutes was overkill, a few seconds should be enough. 20 to 30 sounds good and practical to me.

 

I promise to just have fun. This is... for science.

[octavianestate]

Something else will break instead.

Please no sleepless nights over a turbo cooling system.

[Skodev]

Wait until you find out that there's no light on the dash to tell you if you're lights are on or not!!! Dun Dun Dahhhh!! The horror the horror!!! Ha ha!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[norsko]

I'm not familiar with the TDI engines, but in my book the "problem" should be even worse in TSI engines?

My old Superb with the 1.8-20V turbo engine had 230000 km on it when I sold it, and the turbo was still fine.

In my new Octavia 1.8 TSI there are an turbo timer that runs the cooling a long time after the engine has stoppet.

It also has watercooling of the exhaust manifold and everything says that the turbo in these new engines should last longer than before.

If you really want something to worry about, you should rather think of the oil that Skoda (and VW) say is longlife!

 

No way that I will drive 30000 km between each oil change.

[Wolfpred]

Wait until you find out that there's no light on the dash to tell you if you're lights are on or not!!! Dun Dun Dahhhh!! The horror the horror!!! Ha ha!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I knew that one... it was (and still is) quite shocking O_o

I'm not familiar with the TDI engines, but in my book the "problem" should be even worse in TSI engines?

My old Superb with the 1.8-20V turbo engine had 230000 km on it when I sold it, and the turbo was still fine.

In my new Octavia 1.8 TSI there are an turbo timer that runs the cooling a long time after the engine has stoppet.

It also has watercooling of the exhaust manifold and everything says that the turbo in these new engines should last longer than before.

If you really want something to worry about, you should rather think of the oil that Skoda (and VW) say is longlife!

 

No way that I will drive 30000 km between each oil change.

 

 

I read something about long service intervals. If we are talking about the engine oil, 30k is way too much for me. I would aim to 15k.

Edited 16 May, 2016 by Wolfpred

[SuperbTWM]

I don't think any of the TDI engines have a watercooled turbo. The k04 was watercooled on the 1.8T and had an after run pump due the size of the manifold so the heat soak from it didn't overcook the turbo. (or so I have read)

 

Most car turbos are only oil lubricated because that's all they need to be. If there is a petrol station on the motorway by the time you have pulled off the slip road it will have cooled from being under less load anyway. Just use your brain, don't rag the nuts of it and then park up, drive the last few hundred yards steady before you stop and you will be fine, no need to let it idle before you turn it off, turbos like to have pressure in them to seal properly and don't like lots of engine idling.

 

I too don't like the idea of start/stop cutting out the engine all the time and stopping the oil for the turbo so I turn it off unless I know i'm going to be stood for a while but i'm sure they have done lots of testing and decided that its no detriment to the turbo anyway, otherwise they would have thought of a solution.

[Rodge]

There are millions of turbo-diesel cars on the road driven by people who have no idea that turbos need special treatment. Is there a big problem with turbo reliability?

[KjetilRos]

There are millions of turbo-diesel cars on the road driven by people who have no idea that turbos need special treatment. Is there a big problem with turbo reliability?

No

[norsko]

I don't think any of the TDI engines have a watercooled turbo. The k04 was watercooled on the 1.8T and had an after run pump due the size of the manifold so the heat soak from it didn't overcook the turbo. (or so I have read)

 

Most car turbos are only oil lubricated because that's all they need to be. If there is a petrol station on the motorway by the time you have pulled off the slip road it will have cooled from being under less load anyway. Just use your brain, don't rag the nuts of it and then park up, drive the last few hundred yards steady before you stop and you will be fine, no need to let it idle before you turn it off, turbos like to have pressure in them to seal properly and don't like lots of engine idling.

 

I too don't like the idea of start/stop cutting out the engine all the time and stopping the oil for the turbo so I turn it off unless I know i'm going to be stood for a while but i'm sure they have done lots of testing and decided that its no detriment to the turbo anyway, otherwise they would have thought of a solution.

 

As I said; I'm not familiar with TDI engines, but not watercooled ? In 2016 ?

Most petrol turbo engines that I know of from 30 years ago have watercooled turbos. Nissan Cherry got it in 1986, Nissan Bluebird from 1986, Citroen CX 25 GTI Turbo from 1987, Peugeot 505 from 1986 and so on.

The old 1.8 (150 hp AEB, APU, AWT) had the K03 not the K04, and yes it is watercooled, and no it dont have any after run pump (turbo timer).

[Wolfpred]

There are millions of turbo-diesel cars on the road driven by people who have no idea that turbos need special treatment. Is there a big problem with turbo reliability?

 

 

Probably no.

 

That said, I come from a Ford which was starting to have turbo problems. A friend with a different (but with same engine type) Ford had a turbo replaced last year and had to pay more than 1000€. This situation makes me curious about how to keep the turbo in shape, not paranoid.

 

I trust engineers, and I believe these are machines made to last and capable of handling heavy use. Don't be mad, I'm just trying to understand better how things work. Once I've satisfied my curiosity, there's no harm in using the knowledge to put some extra care into our machines.

[norsko]

This Octavia is my 5 th petrol turbo car, and I have never changed the turbo in either one of them.

I think the reason for this is that most of my driving is to and from work and in both places I'm forced to drive slowly the last one km.

The turbo got time to settle down and cool down before I stop the engine. That and a good quality fully synthetic engine oil is the best you can do,

[ords]

The things that people like to get grey hairs over.

[Alpha2110]

In my opinion the most important thing to prolong the life of a turbo is frequent oil changes, in the Skoda octavia case 10k, non of that long life crap, only beneficial to fleet buyers to reduce servicing costs. Speaking with a skoda mechanic on Friday he informed me it's the same oil anyway.

I see what your saying regarding the start stop, and I agree it could be an issue, I don't like it and make a point of switching it off. Years ago the advice was to let the engine idol for 2 min, to get as much heat out of the turbo, what was happening is the oil was burning and forming as a carbon deposit causing oil seal failure.

Edited 17 May, 2016 by Alpha2110

[bertJ]

As Alpha2110 says some years ago turbo diesel car handbooks, including VAG cars, gave the advice to let the engine idle for a while after a long fast trip. This is no longer mentioned and I doubt whether most drivers are even aware of this idea. Turbo technology has improved dramatically as have oil specifications and are more than capable of handling very high temperatures. The car industry today is so competitive that there's no room for cars that require any special driving or 'nursing' techniques.

For better or worse this forum, and many like it, are only joined by people who are really interested in car and car technology; I think that 99.9% of car owners regard their car as something like a washing machine that they use every day without any thought whatsoever. I also doubt whether many people ever look at the car handbook! 

[SuperbTWM]

As I said; I'm not familiar with TDI engines, but not watercooled ? In 2016 ?

Most petrol turbo engines that I know of from 30 years ago have watercooled turbos. Nissan Cherry got it in 1986, Nissan Bluebird from 1986, Citroen CX 25 GTI Turbo from 1987, Peugeot 505 from 1986 and so on.

The old 1.8 (150 hp AEB, APU, AWT) had the K03 not the K04, and yes it is watercooled, and no it dont have any after run pump (turbo timer).

 

Oil is a lot better now than it was 30 years ago.

 

Also the old 1.8 did come with a K04 on the BAM engine 225 and the previous version in the pre-FL TT, Hence why I mentioned it.

Edited 17 May, 2016 by SuperbTWM