Ok, I've been reading around and it all makes no sense to me whatsoever, so I need some help.

Current set up is a Virgin superb thing at the front of the house where the cable enters the building.  There's some sort of splitter arrangement which takes this into two cables, one going to the Tivo and one to the superb router.

Everything fine with wifi access in the house, though it does drop out towards the rear of the building.

I can even pick it up in the garden to an extent.

However, there is a converted garage, which has a virgin cable going to a VHD box for tv.

There's no wifi access in here, which I'm looking to rectify.

 

Can I just obtain another one of those splitter things to replicate the set up in the house using my own cable router?

Or do I need to look into some sort of extender in the kitchen nearest the garage?  

Powerline adaptors - interesting, but if the garage is on a different circuit, would that make a difference?  I'm loathe to fork out and then for it not to work.

 

 

Any guidance would be much appreciated in demystifying this dark art....

Could you just run a Cat5 from the back of the router to the garage and then stick a wireless bridge in there?

 

Or a wifi repeater might work to boost the signal closer to where you need it.

 

Powerline stuff works ok but can be a bit unreliable (I use it and get occasional drop outs) and does need to be on the same circuit.

I have a powerline set up for the tv's, because we have solid floors the circuits are downstairs front (of house) and downstairs rear (of house) the adaptor in the socket at the router is a socket rear of house and another adaptor is in front of house and it works OK. I could try it in the garage later to see if works OK there.

No you can't use another cable router unfortunately. 

 

Powerline should work as long as it's on the same consumer unit, infact I know of a family with two adjacent flats who use powerline between the two - worryingly...  But as others have already said, proper ethernet is going to be a lot more reliable, if not a bit of a pain to run.

Edited 5 June, 201610 yr by gullyg

No you can't use another cable router unfortunately. 

 

Powerline should work as long as it's on the same consumer unit, infact I know of a family with two adjacent flats who use powerline between the two - worryingly...  But as others have already said, proper ethernet is going to be a lot more reliable, if not a bit of a pain to run.

 

Actually, you can; but you have to dig into the modem specs to see what will work, as not many allow you to make the changes to match Virgins specs, even if the router chipset is capable, not all manufacturers include the option in the control panel. best to ask on a Virgin forum about this.

 

Yes, powerline can "leak" out to neighbours, in actual fact it can leak quite a long way if there is little RF noise on the line.

 

You could try a Wifi repeater, they arent that expensive to buy; position it in a wall socket at the edge of your current good coverage area - nearest the blackspot and preferably as high as possible, upstairs perhaps??

Depends on whether you need Wi-Fi in there... if not then run an Ethernet cable and get a cheap hub if you need more ports... if you need Wi-Fi then you could stick a repeater on there but they can be unreliable... separate Wi-Fi router would work too if you aren't scared by the config (ddwrt if you really aren't scared)

Powerline stuff is generally encrypted by default because is does leak across the electricity network and via RF.

 

Any local radio hams will hate you too.

Cabling it up isn't an option - I'd need a massive length to get from the current router, all the way through the house (several walls and solid floors in the way) across the small patch of garden and then drill through the garage walls as well.

 

I thought the virgin cables where just straightforward - it's one cable into the house, a little metal box, which had no labels to say which was TV and which was Data,  and two cables out. 1 to tv and 1 to cable router.

There is a second cable that runs around the house down to the garage for the cable tv box out there.  is that definitely not possible to split using the same sort of little metal box as in the main house?

I realise the above has probably been answered already, but I fear I'm not making the set up entirely clear the first time I tried explaining.

 

Other than that, I guess I'm going to have to try the repeater route - but my understanding this is effect increases range by halving the available bandwidth? 

Ethernet will reach 100m without issue but I take your point re-drilling holes and burying cable.

It's possible to extend wifi with directed antennas (think sat dishes) but I don't know on the cost.

It's a pity you can't borrow some home plug adaptors to try.

Actually, you can; but you have to dig into the modem specs to see what will work, as not many allow you to make the changes to match Virgins specs, even if the router chipset is capable, not all manufacturers include the option in the control panel. best to ask on a Virgin forum about this.

Yes, powerline can "leak" out to neighbours, in actual fact it can leak quite a long way if there is little RF noise on the line.

You could try a Wifi repeater, they arent that expensive to buy; position it in a wall socket at the edge of your current good coverage area - nearest the blackspot and preferably as high as possible, upstairs perhaps??

Would that not be to replace the current router rather than run two concurrently. Maybe I'm misreading the OP but I think that's what they're asking.

Edited 6 June, 201610 yr by gullyg

Building to building microwave links might be a bit expensive to get internet in your garage.

 

Might be worth keeping an eye on Fleabay though, you never know what'll turn up. Lots of places will be constantly upgrading kit and the bandwith you would need would be pretty old hat by now.

 

Motorola made some decent orthogan kit, it was made for bouncing around urban areas with no line of sight so is pretty reliable.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Long-range-up-to-4km-Outdoor-wifi-access-point-WDS-Bridge-11n-5GHz-upto300Mbp-/191852910305?hash=item2cab5316e1:g:Dx8AAOSwh-1W31mc

Building to building microwave links might be a bit expensive to get internet in your garage.

 

Might be worth keeping an eye on Fleabay though, you never know what'll turn up. Lots of places will be constantly upgrading kit and the bandwith you would need would be pretty old hat by now.

 

Motorola made some decent orthogan kit, it was made for bouncing around urban areas with no line of sight so is pretty reliable.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Long-range-up-to-4km-Outdoor-wifi-access-point-WDS-Bridge-11n-5GHz-upto300Mbp-/191852910305?hash=item2cab5316e1:g:Dx8AAOSwh-1W31mc

 

Plenty of directional Wifi antenna on the market for not a lot of dosh - but you dont know if it will work, so might be a waste of time. You CAN build a DIY direction antenna, there are various designs online for free - although I never saved any links so you will have to google some. I seem to remember one was just some Pringles tubes - might be useful to see if a DIY set up could get a signel there, before spending money on a properly made set.

 

Remember you, will need two - one for each end of the link.

 

As for WiFis 100m range, I gave my old TPLInk router (with +9db antenna) to my step father, and he can now connect to his home network from the local CO OP, which is about 300m away on the other side of the park.

You can't have 2 cable modems in one residential property, like you can do with multiple TV boxes. That would require multiple IPs etc and Virgin don't allow it.

 

I would start with a cheap set of powerline adapters. For £22, it's worth a go.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-AV500-Powerline-Adapter-Starter/dp/B0084Y9N3O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465204868&sr=8-1&keywords=powerline+adapters

 I seem to remember one was just some Pringles tubes - might be useful to see if a DIY set up could get a signel there, before spending money on a properly made set.

 

 

http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-WIFI-24GHz-Yagi-Antenna/

 

Pringles tubes do work to some extent.

You can't have 2 cable modems in one residential property, like you can do with multiple TV boxes. That would require multiple IPs etc and Virgin don't allow it.

 

I would start with a cheap set of powerline adapters. For £22, it's worth a go.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-AV500-Powerline-Adapter-Starter/dp/B0084Y9N3O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465204868&sr=8-1&keywords=powerline+adapters

 

 

Agreed, but what you can do is set one up as a Wifi repeater for the first; depending on what network speeds you want, you can pick up an old "G" spec cable router for pennies, or a newer "N" spec for £15. You need to do your homework though, and usually it means overwriting the router firmware with WRT or similar.

 

Easiest and cheapest is a plug in repeater, Maplin do them for £15, so I suspect you can get them on Amazon for £9.99 or less.

Trouble is with "G" broadcast radiation wi-fi, everybody's got it, so if you're located in a densely packed housing development full of technophiles then expect the person|(s) with the strongest signal to flatten yours and cause frequent drop-out - one of the reasons I switched to Ethernet cable and Devolo between floors (15 feet).

 

I still use Wi-Fi for "In-room" comms between the tablet/phone and the router - any greater distance then it become problematic - BT Home Hubs don't have proper aerials only stubs. Nevertheless, with "G" wif-fi, i.e. a 2.5Ghz signal, rated at 54Mbps, Still,  I was lucky to get a data rate of 8Mbs (Good enough for e-mails and non-streaming web-viewing). By switching to "AC" wi-fi, i.e. a 5 Ghz signal, (Which  nobody else had - at least until recently), I was able to get 60Mbps throughput for a rated (154 Mbps) - I think the limitation there was the input for the tablet not the incoming signal. There is still occasional signal drop-out but not as frequently as "G".

 

However, my current Ethernet + devolo link over the power socket link gets a data link with 450-500 Mbps throughput (Rated @ 500Mbps), with no intruder signals causing drop-out. But it will depend on the wiring -if its over 40 years old and/or has been re-engineered by amateurs then you might have problems with a powerline type link. At £29 this seem good VFM.

 

http://www.tesco.com/direct/devolo-dlan-500-mini-duo-single/292-4116.prd?skuId=292-4116&pageLevel=sku&sc_cmp=ppc_sh-_-sh-_-tesco-_-292-4116&gclid=CNPcmvDbk80CFdgaGwodrL8MtQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

The alternative is Ethernet cable all the way and, if this is exposed to the elements, then it's going to need to be put in conduit, A full 30metre (Length of the average 100 foot suburban garden) installation of either Cat 5 or Cat 6 Ethernet cable (The latest available en-mass and cable of data speeds up to 1 Gbps), plus conduit, fixings and junction boxes (All in plastic) would set you back the best part of £80 retail do-it-yourself. - and plastic might not be ideal as it can degrade under strong sunlight (Including sagging). And if you go for metal galvanised conduit then think £150.

 

Nick

Edited 6 June, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

Trouble is with "G" broadcast radiation wi-fi, everybody's got it, so if you're located in a densely packed housing development full of technophiles then expect the person|(s) with the strongest signal to flatten yours and cause frequent drop-out - one of the reasons I switched to Ethernet cable and Devolo between floors (15 feet).

 

I still use Wi-Fi for "In-room" comms between the tablet/phone and the router - any greater distance then it become problematic - BT Home Hubs don't have proper aerials only stubs. Nevertheless, with "G" wif-fi, i.e. a 2.5Ghz signal, rated at 54Mbps, Still,  I was lucky to get a data rate of 8Mbs (Good enough for e-mails and non-streaming web-viewing). By switching to "AC" wi-fi, i.e. a 5 Ghz signal, (Which  nobody else had - at least until recently), I was able to get 60Mbps throughput for a rated (154 Mbps) - I think the limitation there was the input for the tablet not the incoming signal. There is still occasional signal drop-out but not as frequently as "G".

 

However, my current Ethernet + devolo link over the power socket link gets a data link with 450-500 Mbps throughput (Rated @ 500Mbps), with no intruder signals causing drop-out. But it will depend on the wiring -if its over 40 years old and/or has been re-engineered by amateurs then you might have problems with a powerline type link. At £29 this seem good VFM.

 

http://www.tesco.com/direct/devolo-dlan-500-mini-duo-single/292-4116.prd?skuId=292-4116&pageLevel=sku&sc_cmp=ppc_sh-_-sh-_-tesco-_-292-4116&gclid=CNPcmvDbk80CFdgaGwodrL8MtQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

The alternative is Ethernet cable all the way and, if this is exposed to the elements, then it's going to need to be put in conduit, A full 30metre (Length of the average 100 foot suburban garden) installation of either Cat 5 or Cat 6 Ethernet cable (The latest available en-mass and cable of data speeds up to 1 Gbps), plus conduit, fixings and junction boxes (All in plastic) would set you back the best part of £80 retail do-it-yourself. - and plastic might not be ideal as it can degrade under strong sunlight (Including sagging). And if you go for metal galvanised conduit then think £150.

 

Nick

 

I agree with much of what you have said, I suggested the "G" spec purely as something to try first; yes the speeds wont be as great, but 54Mb is still plenty for most things if you get a decent signal (or 108Mb if you can find a G+ model). buy kit with antenna that can be replaced and whack on +9db or higher replacements; or use the directional antenna mods mentioned earlier.

 

On the Ethernet front I have to sound a note of caution; not all routers HAVE 1GbE ports, a lot have only 100MbE, and the speeds can often be WORSE than 54/108Mb wifi. Now I believe the last Virgin cable router HAD 1GbE ports, but the latest version has reportedly reverted to 100MbE.

You don't need to have a conduit, you can use armored Cat5/6 which is made to be buried outside.

I've used old BB router in the past to act as a second AP, whilst using the "new" BB router for gateway and DHCP.

 

Main issue with older kit is "does it support modern security" i.e. WPA2/PSK? My older ones won't.

I've used old BB router in the past to act as a second AP, whilst using the "new" BB router for gateway and DHCP.

 

Main issue with older kit is "does it support modern security" i.e. WPA2/PSK? My older ones won't.

Some times that can be fixed by a firmware update; in other cases you should look to see if there is WRT firmware for it that includes WPA2/PSK

It would have to be old old kit not to support WPA2/PSK these days.

 

Cheapest option a wifi extender (https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-WA850RE-Universal-Extender-Configuration/dp/B00AHXXJVW) , or the devolo style ethernet-over-mains (https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-AV500-Powerline-Adapter-Starter/dp/B0084Y9N3O/)

It would have to be old old kit not to support WPA2/PSK these days.

 

Cheapest option a wifi extender (https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-WA850RE-Universal-Extender-Configuration/dp/B00AHXXJVW) , or the devolo style ethernet-over-mains (https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-AV500-Powerline-Adapter-Starter/dp/B0084Y9N3O/)

 

Last device I had that didnt support WPA2 was one fitted to a early 2000's COMPAQ Evo laptop;ven the cheap PCMIA card I bought to replace it in 2006 had WPA2 (The COMPAQ one had a major paddy and stopped working every time we went into Paris - couldnt cope with all the WiFI networks !!!)

Getting a length of cat 5e or 6a put in won't cost much, actually I'd get two done (just incase).

You can then put a wifi point on there or connect it directly to the virgin box etc.

As for the 100Mb, that's going to be fine for catchup TV and on demand.

I've been doing some reading/testing  this last week.

 

There are some very powerful wifi solutions. Put it this way I was about to drill some holes but I'm not now! A single quality AP has just replaced 2 powerlines and 2 generic tp-link/d-link access points ( running dd-wrt ) with considerably improved performance.

 

Although LAN is sub MS ping to the main router, the wifi has gone from 5-70ms, peaks way higher over powerline,  to a pretty solid sub 2ms.

 

 

I'm just unboxing this https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-outdoor/ once I've wired it up I'll see how far I can go... It has a claimed range of 600', largely depends on the device too.

 

There is also from the same provider a nano bridge about £60 ea with a 10km line of sight... should get your garage ok. Not got any of those to test yet.

 

There is also a very expensive, gigabit wireless unit, again not tested but raved about last year. Anyway bbiab off to warm my head up.

I've been doing some reading/testing  this last week.

 

There are some very powerful wifi solutions. Put it this way I was about to drill some holes but I'm not now! A single quality AP has just replaced 2 powerlines and 2 generic tp-link/d-link access points ( running dd-wrt ) with considerably improved performance.

 

Although LAN is sub MS ping to the main router, the wifi has gone from 5-70ms, peaks way higher over powerline,  to a pretty solid sub 2ms.

 

 

I'm just unboxing this https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-outdoor/ once I've wired it up I'll see how far I can go... It has a claimed range of 600', largely depends on the device too.

 

There is also from the same provider a nano bridge about £60 ea with a 10km line of sight... should get your garage ok. Not got any of those to test yet.

 

There is also a very expensive, gigabit wireless unit, again not tested but raved about last year. Anyway bbiab off to warm my head up.

 

I've been looking at these too,  I have 3 APs and a few Powerline adaptors and was wondering if I could tidy up with something like (mounted centrally in the house) :

 

https://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/products/23764-ubiquiti-uap-ac-lr/

 

 But I've always wondered are they as good as they claim.

I'm running 1 UAP AC lite, 2nd still in box.... It's in the loft room on the top, 3rd, floor on a wall. Wifi signal on phone is on -80dBm in the middle of the ground floor, so still workable and that's just one through floors and walls. 

 

 

The outdoor one, @5GHz, is currently in a garage so external walls to escape/bounce off. Also reads -80dBm, odd I think. The virgin hub, in the same garage and in a tin box... is @ 5GHz and a slightly better reception, but worse performance (ping) :S I've got to run a cable to a more open space for a proper test as an outdoor AP is not much point inside. Or find a better droid scanner.

 

SWMBO is away so I'm wandering around trailing cables to find sweet spots, where it is, shall the install happen...