Two lane roundabout, entering and exiting in lane two?

[Ootohere]

An old thread on the Keir Roundabout on the A9 & an accident.

Picture from above in the thread.

Foot of the picture is the Dual carriageway that the BMW Estate was taking towards Glasgow (south).

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=38886.15

http://sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Keir_Roundabout

Edited 17 June, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[fabiamk2SE]

I never trust anyone at roundabouts. When you say you don't drive side by side at a roundabout what do you do when a car in the other lane speeds up or slows down and is then alongside you?

If he slows down ill ease off too, ill always maintain in the gap between the cars, even though im in the next lane. I just never put myself in a position where he'd take me out if he turned right unexpected.

I dont do it so much in the car, more so on the bike. Its easier cos its smaller and i can guarentee im going past him on the exit.

[ColinD]

That roundabout (it's more a giant oval to be honest) is a lottery. I use it a lot. (by the way, the wee chippy at Bridge of Allan is fantastic!).

 

 

Thank you. That saves me driving like a devil on a date to hit fort william before 11 on my climbing trips north.

[Ootohere]

Colin do you head that way rather than crossing Erskine Bridge and going along Loch Lomond side to Crianlarich?

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

This is the video that caused the debate.

 

I was surprised at how the vote went very much 50:50 as to who was at fault...

 

 

I don't think either driver is blameless, the collision was easily avoidable but my initial reaction was to think the Fiat 500 was in the wrong.

 

I'm not looking to debate that here, more on whether it is OK to exit a roundabout from lane two.

 

Saw this video over on PH too, I decided not to get too involved in this one lol. I think the BMW's cause wasnt helped by the total lack of any avoiding action or awareness of whats around him. 

 

It does, if you're willing to trust them.

I go in the gap between the cars. Ill follow a car in, but i wont go alongside it. I defo wont go alongside a lorry, ill just be far enough behind that i can stop if it does start crossing my lane.

Then when the car on my left commits, ill open up and go past it under acceleration.

Ill never, ever, go alongside a vehicle in a situation like that.

 

This is my exact method, still makes progress but I dont have to trust anyone else not to wipe me out. Anything larger than car gets loads of room, even if I'm on the nearside lane. I'm always ready to take avoiding action too

[fabiamk2SE]

Saw this video over on PH too, I decided not to get too involved in this one lol. I think the BMW's cause wasnt helped by the total lack of any avoiding action or awareness of whats around him.

This is my exact method, still makes progress but I dont have to trust anyone else not to wipe me out. Anything larger than car gets loads of room, even if I'm on the nearside lane. I'm always ready to take avoiding action too

Yeah haha. Makes making progress out of the roundabout alot easier doesnt it.

Rather than staying in lane 1 and trying to pull into lane 2 afterwards to get past cars. Cos they all seem to accelerate so bloody slowly off roundabouts .

[KenONeill]

{picks up spurtle}

 

Weren't there 2 lanes marked where the FIAT entered? If so then the driver did nothing right whilst on camera!

[Ootohere]

Yesterday there were no road markings which is the issue often.

I took the BMW Estate route to continue on the A9 and watched for anything to my left maybe going the same way as me, 

and maybe going around to the next exit as they need to do if going that way.

If they did not take the opportunity to get on the roundabout come on the outside lane when they can then the traffic can back up behind them.

[Coops]

Unrelated to the original OP location but on a similar theme:

 

Dual carriageway into the roundabout, 2 lanes, I'm following the red route. There are no lane markings indicating which lane drivers should take.

 

Can I / should I: Move to lane 2 on approach, signal right, and exit in lane 1. Or should I exit in lane 2. Or lane 1 to lane 1 ??

 

[KenONeill]

Unrelated to the original OP location but on a similar theme:

 

Dual carriageway into the roundabout, 2 lanes, I'm following the red route. There are no lane markings indicating which lane drivers should take.

 

Can I / should I: Move to lane 2 on approach, signal right, and exit in lane 1. Or should I exit in lane 2. Or lane 1 to lane 1 ??

 

Move to lane 2 and signal right on approach; continue signalling right until you're passing the Parklands exit, then signal left. You may use either lane of the A5 (South?) on exit.

[Coops]

Move to lane 2 and signal right on approach; continue signalling right until you're passing the Parklands exit, then signal left. You may use either lane of the A5 (South?) on exit.

 

And if drivers in lane 1 doing the same and turning right, I am "legitimately" able to cut them up so to speak by exiting into lane 1.

 

^ This happens each and every night at that roundabout.

[logiclee]

The blue car on the inside lane has two options, either take the first exit or the second exit. The red car has the options of taking the second or third exit or going around again.

 

There are plenty of roundabouts, especially large motorway roundabouts, where the left hand lane is marked for left, straight on and right.

 

This is usually for a traffic management issue and the right hand lane is marked right turn only.

 

So in this respect the left hand lane user can take the third exit but the right hand lane user must not take the second exit.

 

You must always take not of how the lanes are marked. All roundabouts are not the same.

 

Lee

[petrolbloke]

I think it makes sense to use both lanes on approach and exit as it will improve traffic throughput when it's busy.

 

Unfortunately many people on the road have poor lane discipline and/or may make a manoeuvre without indicating/being aware of their surroundings (Fiat 500 driver) and it's up to the rest of us to anticipate that someone else might not be able to drive and make allowances/take avoiding action (what the BMW driver should have done).

 

I have been in the same position as the BMW driver before (other car incorrectly in left lane and turning right without indicating) - managed to avoid a collision but did have to go all the way around the roundabout. I'm now more careful in these situations at roundabouts and avoid getting alongside other cars on roundabouts with no lane markings.

 

I think the incident in the video is 50/50, but can understand why the BMW driver would be peeved if the insurance claim went that way. IMO it's careless driving by the Fiat and driver error by the BMW (but not enough of an error to be careless).

 

I think it might help in these situations if lanes were clearly marked on the approach and lanes were also marked on the roundabout itself.

[moley]

There are plenty of roundabouts, especially large motorway roundabouts, where the left hand lane is marked for left, straight on and right.

This is usually for a traffic management issue and the right hand lane is marked right turn only.

So in this respect the left hand lane user can take the third exit but the right hand lane user must not take the second exit.

You must always take not of how the lanes are marked. All roundabouts are not the same.

Lee

I was only replying to the original post and the layout and road markings shown. Some roundabouts have 1,2,3,4 or 5 lanes on the approach and each lane might be marked to a specific exit and different rules apply to those roundabouts, but they were not in the discussion.

[Soot1e]

This is the video that caused the debate.

 

I was surprised at how the vote went very much 50:50 as to who was at fault...

 

 

I don't think either driver is blameless, the collision was easily avoidable but my initial reaction was to think the Fiat 500 was in the wrong.

 

I'm not looking to debate that here, more on whether it is OK to exit a roundabout from lane two.

Quite obvious what happens here, the dumbass Fiat driver approaches the roundabout on the left to turn right because the queue approaching the roundabout was a lot less shorter  in the lefthand lane approach than it was on the right approach.  

Same thing happens with foreign drivers, they always go round the outside of a roundabout whichever exit they'll be using. 

Unfortunately I've seen many Foreign lorries take out a car that is using an inside lane of a roundabout in the UK. Never happens in Euroland, it's always just one lane around and one vehicle at a time.

[Ootohere]

Or entered exactly like the white car at 27.25 mins in this vid.  (same place you see the Fiat join, same lane.)

The Red Fiat 500 follows out the White Citroen and made a move to change lane and had to abort as the video shows.

* The camera car stopped it from, and was the camera car going all the way round and changed its mind and went to assist after the BMW did what it did.?*

The BMW is inside the camera car / van is it not & cutting across its bow ?

 

The driver was maybe even thinking the Blue BMW Estate on the inside of the roundabout was exiting around at the 4th exit or even the 5th seeing as it was on the inside. (lane 2)

Edited 21 June, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[KenONeill]

And if drivers in lane 1 doing the same and turning right, I am "legitimately" able to cut them up so to speak by exiting into lane 1.

 

^ This happens each and every night at that roundabout.

I'd advise against that, because you're deliberately placing yourself in conflict with another road user even if "you are in the right".

[Tilt]

Did you not already have an accident where you were in the blue car position and a commercial vehicle in the car car position hit you?

 

 

 

Fancy having a go at the question in the opening thread? :moon: .

 .

[Tilt]

After watching the original video twice, I do think the BMW driver seems to make no attempt at even braking until a few yards after the collision.

 

In fact I am going to watch it again and see if I can see his brake lights. I am not blaming him for the collision but wondering if he was paying attention though.

 

IMO on first viewing the fiat is in the wrong lane, but as mentioned, he may have a reason for being in that lane but his indicating was terrible.

[Soot1e]

I'd advise against that, because you're deliberately placing yourself in conflict with another road user even if "you are in the right".

The Gordon Brittas syndrome comes to mind here-----"But I was in the right"   as he lies trussed up in a hospital bed

[KenONeill]

The Gordon Brittas syndrome comes to mind here-----"But I was in the right"   as he lies trussed up in a hospital bed

My exposure to that phrase pre-dates "The Brittas Empire" by at least 20 years.

[StevesTruck]

Also worth bearing in mind, regardless of road layout, never get within 30 feet of a new Fiat 500, a BMW Mini. or an old Nissan Micra.

Edited 23 June, 2016 by StevesTruck