EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 1

[bilun777]

You may have seen the below adapted poster whch neatly sums up many of our feelings.

 

Being one of the key people, working in international logistics, who has to implement much of the BREXIT changes, ie customs entries, fee, import taxes payments and deal with the companies who have to bear this I feel aggrieved more than most.

 

Nice?  The consequences of BREXIT on the poor and the young give niceties no place considering the gravitas of the outcome IMO.    

 

Hate crimes up by a half, and that is not nice!

 

....."But Pooh" said Piglet.

"When we last voted in 1975, we voted to join a Common market / European Community.

Not an ever growing,bureaucratic ,un democratic federal state .

Perhaps in another 41 years we can have another vote if we get it wrong again?"

...." Harrumph " said Pooh.

Edited 11 July, 2016 by bilun777

[lol-lol]

....."But Pooh" said Piglet.

"When we last voted in 1975, we voted to join a Common market / European Community.

Not an ever growing,bureaucratic ,un democratic federal state .

Perhaps in another 41 years we can have another vote if we get it wrong again?"

...." Harrumph " said Pooh.

 

Then Pooh said " Actually we did not vote to go in to the EU as we had already been in the EU for sometime brought in by Con leader Ted Heath without a vote and were voting whether to come out of the EU. You are silly little piglet and perhaps should not have a vote because you are so dim."

Edited 11 July, 2016 by lol-lol

[essexalan]

give him a minute, Dr. Z. He's probably trawling all the UKIP/ Daily Mail/ Express sites at the moment!

Not by choice I do try and find an opposite view of what I find on the Web not take it at face value. The fact remains that were a lot of anti-EU sites around and very little from the Remain camp disputing the information thereon. Sites providing independent, hard, solid and honest facts are few and far between, these facts are what we needed to make a qualified decision. The warnings were there when UKIP achieved the majority of votes during the MEP elections. An attempt by me to provide information to alleviate your personal concerns were largely shouted down when a simple check by yourself would have confirmed what I said. The Remain camp did not simply lose they rolled over and surrendered and have been shrieking like monkeys ever since blaming everything but their own incompetence and apathy. .

[gadgetman]

The Remain camp did not simply lose they rolled over and surrendered and have been shrieking like monkeys ever since blaming everything but their own incompetence and apathy. .

Not entirely true. The debate boiled down to 2 things and was always about these 2 issues.

Immigration v economy. The government never had a positive case for immigration, and even if they had hysteria was always going to win in areas directly affected by immigration, and those areas which aren't but voters believe the rest of the country has been over run already and they're next.

That's essentially what won the day. A promise to end free movement - which has already been back tracked on by vote leave campaigners such as Daniel Hannan & Chris Grayling

[P6bJOHN]

I have been following this thread for some time, and regarding the remain camp rolling over, I have noticed that the general opinion of people I have discussed it with was that the remain camp talked down to them. This put their backs up, and confirmed their opinion that to remain might not be in the best interest of the working man. This thread's under lying tone that the leavers are ill educated and stupid does nothing to reduce that opinion.

I find it interesting that one of the thread's main protagonists takes great delight in showing how well his finances are doing due to the threat of Brexit, whilst wringing his hands at the bad deal that the ill educated leavers have brought upon themselves.

Whatever we voted as individuals, it is what it is, it's called democracy. Now let let the country work together to make the best of it, and stop bitching and back biting. This thread just appears to be chasing it's tail and going nowhere.

[lol-lol]

I have been following this thread for some time, and regarding the remain camp rolling over, I have noticed that the general opinion of people I have discussed it with was that the remain camp talked down to them. This put their backs up, and confirmed their opinion that to remain might not be in the best interest of the working man. This thread's under lying tone that the leavers are ill educated and stupid does nothing to reduce that opinion.

I find it interesting that one of the thread's main protagonists takes great delight in showing how well his finances are doing due to the threat of Brexit, whilst wringing his hands at the bad deal that the ill educated leavers have brought upon themselves.

Whatever we voted as individuals, it is what it is, it's called democracy. Now let let the country work together to make the best of it, and stop bitching and back biting. This thread just appears to be chasing it's tail and going nowhere.

 

I am deeply sorry for the pain that Brexit is about to unfold by way of inflation which generally affects those in the lower quartiles disproportionately.  Citizen usually get the policies they voted for and it is a shame that the 48% who voted Remain are largely going to be affected by the economic downturn currently unfolding that is a consequence of voting leave. It is done, not sure what the Cons will do about Article 50, for me it is a starting clock to prepare the customs systems for the top ten international logistics company I work for, putting in the systems at port and airports to handle the production of export and import entries for the 27 Member States which I have not have to worry about for the last 24 years, massive job and costs.

Lessons to be learnt IMO. Do not put all your financial eggs in UK equities as that clearly is a dangerous move according to the markets.  If you can choose a job that is not to dependant on being a European distribution hub or manufacturing as we have seen that international business is already looking to re-strategise, not my wish but just a plain fact of the market conditions post BREXIT and we all have to make the best for ourselves in this new vista.        

[Ootohere]

Those worst often are on £71 a week or less and sometimes it is harder to be worse off than sleeping on the streets or attending Food Banks.

Those that think of savings and cars and fuel prices are not always best placed to even imagine what being the worst off is.

Those that live on expenses and can bank their wages really have not a clue.

[lol-lol]

Those worst often are on £71 a week or less and sometimes it is harder to be worse off than sleeping on the streets or attending Food Banks.

Those that think of savings and cars and fuel prices are not always best placed to even imagine what being the worst off is.

Those that live on expenses and can bank their wages really have not a clue.

 

And the Con government is certainly not going to progress the cause of the poor as their record suggests.  Osborne has already said that BREXIT will cause the imbalance in UK budget to last a further two years ie until 2022.

 

Scotland should extricate itself with all possible speed from the UK to maintain an EU membership, good luck to Nicola and Team and it will be interesting to see what the six countries of Northern Ireland do too, possible just revert to bootlegging/smuggling etc at great loss to the UK Exchequer as before.  We should get even more shoppers from the 26 counties shopping in the 6 I would presume from now on which should help the UK economy as long as the border does not go up and we revert to an customs allowance of £100 or so as before.  

 

Would many Scots be happy to adopt the Euro?

 

I expect the Rest of UK will ask the Scots to take 5/66 th of the UK £1.7T national debt, sorry about that. 

Edited 11 July, 2016 by lol-lol

[Sad555]

After nearly two weeks the share almost back to pre brexit,oh it's all gone quiet .

[@Lee]

The Remain camp did not simply lose they rolled over and surrendered and have been shrieking like monkeys ever since blaming everything but their own incompetence and apathy. .

And the Leave camp didn't bale out either did they? Boris, Farage et al. You'd have thought that with their victory against all the odds they'd be shouting from the rooftops rather than quitting and taking back all the lies they spouted.

[lol-lol]

After nearly two weeks the share almost back to pre brexit,oh it's all gone quiet .

 

 

The Footsie 100 is multi-national index ie the firms, mining etc are mainly not based in the UK.

 

It is the fall in the GBP against the Dollar, Euro and Yen that will push UK inflation over the next weeks and month to affect your buying power for clothes, electricals, food,fuel all of which are mostly imported from outside the UK into our shops.

 

I have prepared my logistic company's  HMRC Deferment arrangement up to assist companies whose own deferment arrangement with customs run out of headroom, as they are set in GBP where the vast majority of imports are in EUR, USD and YEN and hence their deferment accounts will get eaten up much quicker with the 10, 15, 20% fall in the sterling against these major trading currencies.

 

August is the first month the new customs exchange rates will hit and September to November are the heaviest months for import with the importation of Xmas goods and winter clothing in to Felixstowe, London port, Southampton etc. Going to be interesting but tough times for many import wholesalers of how much of the currency hit to absorb and how much they can or have to pass on.    

Edited 11 July, 2016 by lol-lol

[Sad555]

Didn't the mcx rise by over 500 today ,most of my shares back up and a bit of inflation is good for the rpi to help increase my pension?

[mender]

After nearly two weeks the share almost back to pre brexit,oh it's all gone quiet .

Wait til the GBP-rate on stuff we buy hits; the wholesalers won't suck up 15% for much longer

 

I see in a later post that your shares have bounced back, sadly it is people like me that have no shares that will be hit by food, fuel and goods prices the most.

Ironically,  a high percentage of Leave voters were reported to be a from working class sectors, these are the people that will be hit hardest by it all.

 

We're still on exit honeymoon period, we'll see what happens as and when, but as is usual, the rich will play the game and get richer, the poor will, inevitably, get poorer.

[lol-lol]

Didn't the mcx rise by over 500 today ,most of my shares back up and a bit of inflation is good for the rpi to help increase my pension?

 

Yet still 10% lower than it was when the Cons came to power around Easter 2015.

Edited 11 July, 2016 by lol-lol

[@Lee]

Didn't the mcx rise by over 500 today ,most of my shares back up and a bit of inflation is good for the rpi to help increase my pension?

your BT shares, if you have any, are down by ~ 17p/share. 1k shares = a loss of £170.

 

Did you get the letter from the CWU?

[Sad555]

Bought my shares for I think about 68p (good old share save)................almost £4.00 today

[@Lee]

Bought my shares for I think about 68p (good old share save)................almost £4.00 today

I was going to apply for the last lot but thought the time might be a bit volatile. Genuinely hope they do OK for you.

 

Fibre course for me next week; I don't even want to do fibre lol

[theezenutz]

I'm afraid I am going to have to play the the World's smallest Violin for those that lose money playing the tables in Las Vegas.

[@Lee]

I'm afraid I am going to have to play the the World's smallest Violin for those that lose money playing the tables in Las Vegas.

do you understand how finance and economies and budgets are all intertwined? They lose, we all lose in one way or another.

I'm sure you've read enough conspiracy theorist websites by now to understand how money is created.

[gadgetman]

Those worst often are on £71 a week or less and sometimes it is harder to be worse off than sleeping on the streets or attending Food Banks.

Those that think of savings and cars and fuel prices are not always best placed to even imagine what being the worst off is.

Those that live on expenses and can bank their wages really have not a clue.

Exactly.

My fear is that the worst off areas will further be divided by this decision May has confirmed she will proceed with.

There's 2 legal challenges. The first to ignore the vote as advisory which isn't really going to happen.

The one I am interested in because "brexit means brexit" as May confirmed earlier, is that there is an independent evaluation of brexit, all the options and risks which is then presented to either parliament or the public by referendum BEFORE article 50 is triggered.

A kind of these are the facts, without any point scoring, campaigning or personalities getting in the way - are you really sure this is what you want?

Because the decision cannot be reversed at all without rejoining the EU under new member terms (euro, schengen, no rebate, 100% law acceptance etc) it's important to give everyone some clear pros and cons.

[theezenutz]

But who does the Public trust to present these fact's? It would surely have to be completely independent from any Government or Financial interest.

[gadgetman]

After nearly two weeks the share almost back to pre brexit,oh it's all gone quiet .

100 (mostly global brands) is up, FTSE 250 (mostly UK brands) still down.

[gadgetman]

But who does the Public trust to present these fact's? It would surely have to be completely independent from any Government or Financial interest.

That is what has been requested, however I don't think anyone would fit your personal requirements in this regard

[essexalan]

The one I am interested in because "brexit means brexit" as May confirmed earlier, is that there is an independent evaluation of brexit, all the options and risks which is then presented to either parliament or the public by referendum BEFORE article 50 is triggered.

A kind of these are the facts, without any point scoring, campaigning or personalities getting in the way - are you really sure this is what you want?

 

Exactly how the referendum on 23/6 should have been run. Another referendum will be seen as a cop out by the Government unless it is either you vote for these set of rules or this set. Anything where a vote effectively means leave or remain will be seen as a betrayal. 

 

[gadgetman]

I just hope any referendum doesn't involve 2 campaigns again.

The government simply give us the facts, we decide. Otherwise we'll end up with another round of bull**** and people buying the result they want