EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[lol-lol]

If you think there is some fear around then for God sake do not watch this.....

 

http://pro.strategicintelligence.co.uk/SNXDDAY1/PSINSC01/?gclid=CP3uxevr_tACFZEy0wodN50FYg&h=true

 

 

Friday, 31st March 2017:

D-DAY

FOR THE GREAT BRITISH POUND

By Friday, 31st March 2017...
Britain will have finally begun its exit from Europe.

But as it does, trigger-happy traders and bitter EU bureaucrats could unleash a devastating attack on the Great British Pound... forcing its value to plummet... and making you instantly poorer.

Here's how to protect yourself...

[The PM]

I see Project Fear is alive and well!

 

 

 (even if partiically true not very good taste)...

 

 

Depends in what part of the country you live... Round here the young voters were also voting leave...

 

It goes back to the discussion I had earlier with Offski and lol about the effects uncontrolled immigration has had and the reason Scotland and NI voted the way they did. Yes they have both had immigration but not on the level parts of England and Wales have had, I couldn't get this point across to them earlier and had to give up trying but this is the key to why England and Wales voted leave. Some of my friends in Scotland have lived in such areas of England and understood the issue but unless you have seen your jobs disappearing and wages going down you just wouldn't understand and I think it is that ignorance of the issue in Scotland that has resulted in the divide between Scots and English voters.

 

There is nothing wrong with immigration, even uncontrolled immigration, as long as the countries involved are all EQUAL. Currency, wages, goods, property and such things as welfare benefits, ie standard of living. In the old EEC that was the case in the main. The problems started when countries which have a much lower standard of living and fewer or less generous benefits joined and the peoples of those countries saw a chance to move out in large numbers to the countries with streets paved with gold (or so they thought) which has lead to what we have now... 

 

There's nothing wrong with immigration, on the whole it's a good thing, but you must have some form of control over it or it can have serious issues which can be seen in parts of England and Wales.

 

 

 

I don't think it's anything special about what the SNP has done, their aim is clear, to keep Scotland in the EU so they have nothing to lose by putting their views forward. The UK Government, however, does, and also has to think carefully about what it does so I wouldn't expect them to start publishing what they are going to do, in this situation I certainly wouldn't!

 

 

 

As for jumped up little ex footballers, who cares what he says, his views are worth no more than ours unless he's suddenly got some sort of qualification in economics!

Edited 19 December, 2016 by The PM

[Ootohere]

?

Have you given a thought to just how many from Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland (Ireland as well.) have immigrated over the past 10 decades, (many into England, many to run the country in parliament even.)

made a success and a new life abroad because they are Celts and as much as they like an argument they are not little Englanders or Pommies.

 

The migrant families & friends and returnees might just see the bigger picture.

Immigration & Migration is a good thing in the whole, just the UK Government can not organise a pith up in a brewery.

 

They like Migration, just you need to be a wealthy migrant, or absconder from some country you robbed blind, or using the UK as a tax haven, 

or working for low wages, taking nothing from the economy, just putting in then clear back off where you came from.

Edited 19 December, 2016 by Offski

[cheezemonkhai]

If scotland stays in the EU, then spain and Italy are in trouble.

It's not going to happen, even if the UK government said go on then.

 

As for migration, it's great as long as you're importing either skills or at the very least people who want to learn skills and work.

Importing anyone, everyone and those who don't is a disaster and I don't see anyone in a hurry to take our version of these as an export.

Edited 19 December, 2016 by cheezemonkhai

[Ootohere]

When the UK leaves the EU Spain & other Continental European Countries are in trouble when lots living there stop getting Disability & Unemployment Benefits paid to them from the UK.

Lots will no longer afford to life there.

[The PM]

Did you actually read my post or not, Offski?

 

If you had you'd have realised that I am not criticising immigration, just how it is controlled.

 

I am saying (and it's something you continue to ignore) that immigration from the old Central and Eastern Europe at the level seen in many parts of England is something that Scotland just hasn't seen, yes there are people in Scotland but not at the levels seen in England. There have been recent reports that have shown that when a large number of immigrants from a country with a lower standard of living (usually young adults, not families) congregate in one place it lowers the average wage and causes major problems for those existing residents who are low wage earners with families who still have to provide for their families but find their income reduced and their jobs in jeopardy. 

 

If you can't grasp that then I'd suggest that you go and visit the many parts of England that voted leave by large margins and see what it's like in practice and talk to those affected directly as i honestly think you have absolutely no real grasp of the issue.

[Ootohere]

I did read it.

 

Bring on the working migrants even from countries with a poorer standard of living and lower wages, 

because UK Residents and British Born are not that interested in doing hard work. 

Those saying they are taking our jobs are not going Fruit & Crop Picking, or Amazon Mail Order picking.

 

PS

I visit England, have migrant family in England, England is not special, just badly run with many too lazy to work, 

like Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland.

 

Currently i have family members living & working or retired to Hungary, Norway, Spain, Italy, Australia, Canada & India.

All Scottish born, have Scottish Partners or Parents.

Edited 19 December, 2016 by Offski

[@Lee]

 There have been recent reports that have shown that when a large number of immigrants from a country with a lower standard of living (usually young adults, not families) congregate in one place it lowers the average wage and causes major problems for those existing residents who are low wage earners with families who still have to provide for their families but find their income reduced and their jobs in jeopardy. 

 

 

Do you have any links or supporting evidence for that statement?

Not from the likes of The DM, The DE or The Sun either, please

[trundlenut]

I see Project Fear is alive and well!

Depends in what part of the country you live... Round here the young voters were also voting leave...

It goes back to the discussion I had earlier with Offski and lol about the effects uncontrolled immigration has had and the reason Scotland and NI voted the way they did. Yes they have both had immigration but not on the level parts of England and Wales have had, I couldn't get this point across to them earlier and had to give up trying but this is the key to why England and Wales voted leave. Some of my friends in Scotland have lived in such areas of England and understood the issue but unless you have seen your jobs disappearing and wages going down you just wouldn't understand and I think it is that ignorance of the issue in Scotland that has resulted in the divide between Scots and English voters.

There is nothing wrong with immigration, even uncontrolled immigration, as long as the countries involved are all EQUAL. Currency, wages, goods, property and such things as welfare benefits, ie standard of living. In the old EEC that was the case in the main. The problems started when countries which have a much lower standard of living and fewer or less generous benefits joined and the peoples of those countries saw a chance to move out in large numbers to the countries with streets paved with gold (or so they thought) which has lead to what we have now...

There's nothing wrong with immigration, on the whole it's a good thing, but you must have some form of control over it or it can have serious issues which can be seen in parts of England and Wales.

I don't think it's anything special about what the SNP has done, their aim is clear, to keep Scotland in the EU so they have nothing to lose by putting their views forward. The UK Government, however, does, and also has to think carefully about what it does so I wouldn't expect them to start publishing what they are going to do, in this situation I certainly wouldn't!

As for jumped up little ex footballers, who cares what he says, his views are worth no more than ours unless he's suddenly got some sort of qualification in economics!

Will whatever immigration controls we get make a difference? The government is happy to do deals in private with business, we could cut EU immigration to zero and still have hundreds of thousands of people coming in from elsewhere.

[@Lee]

Will whatever immigration controls we get make a difference? The government is happy to do deals in private with business, we could cut EU immigration to zero and still have hundreds of thousands of people coming in from elsewhere.

Careful, they don't like it when you tell them those kinds of things.

[gadgetman]

Interestingly a high number of the areas who voted to leave citing immigration actually don't have many eu immigrants.

Some of it appears to be perceived rather than directly experienced

[Scribbler]

Will whatever immigration controls we get make a difference? The government is happy to do deals in private with business, we could cut EU immigration to zero and still have hundreds of thousands of people coming in from elsewhere.

 

Why is that a problem? Your confusing inability to control with selective controls. Its a bit like having the keys to your house but still letting everyone on the street enter unsolicited or giving the keys to someone else. potentially could have just as many people in the house but critically if you have the keys you have a choice. For some its semantics for others (me) its more about not having the keys than it is about having the keys. If we choose to lock the door(s) or open some and close others is the irrelevance.

Edited 19 December, 2016 by Scribbler

[Ootohere]

Sometimes in Europe things come out as they should.

 

She knows so much about money, an expert on it, so much trust & power given to one so dodgy.

'The French Government still have trust in the IMF Chief obviously....'

http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38369822

Edited 19 December, 2016 by Offski

[trundlenut]

Why is that a problem? Your confusing inability to control with selective controls. Its a bit like having the keys to your house but still letting everyone on the street enter unsolicited or giving the keys to someone else. potentially could have just as many people in the house but critically if you have the keys you have a choice. For some its semantics for others (me) its more about not having the keys than it is about having the keys. If we choose to lock the door(s) or open some and close others is the irrelevance.

We have the door, the lock and the key. It's sitting on May's desk. She could assemble the loyal conservative party and slam shut the door, double lock and barricade it tomorrow, or last year but....

Remember Brexit means Brexit, the country has spoken. Now just **** off so May and the Brexit Boys decide what it is you want. In the mean time Gove and the ravening hoards are screaming through the letter box demanding we set fire to all foreigners. And round the back big business is slipping in and out for cozy little chats, just to make sure they get want they want.

At the end of the day you will get what you voted for, you voted for something and you will definitely get something, and you'll bloody well like it or else.

[Scribbler]

We have the door, the lock and the key. It's sitting on May's desk. She could assemble the loyal conservative party and slam shut the door, double lock and barricade it tomorrow, or last year but....

Remember Brexit means Brexit, the country has spoken. Now just **** off so May and the Brexit Boys decide what it is you want. In the mean time Gove and the ravening hoards are screaming through the letter box demanding we set fire to all foreigners. And round the back big business is slipping in and out for cozy little chats, just to make sure they get want they want.

At the end of the day you will get what you voted for, you voted for something and you will definitely get something, and you'll bloody well like it or else.

 

Bit melodramatic isn't it? I fully expect the levels of immigration to go up or at least remain at similar levels as we have now. The only difference is they might be from more culturally similar areas of the world and fully vetted for criminal records. The haphazard hoovering up of all of European undesirables is completely unsustainable and you know it.

Edited 19 December, 2016 by Scribbler

[trundlenut]

Bit melodramatic isn't it? I fully expect the levels of immigration to go up or at least remain at similar levels as we have now. The only difference is they might be from more culturally similar areas of the world and fully vetted for criminal records. The haphazard hoovering up of all of European undesirables is completely unsustainable and you know it.

The government's current position is that Brexit is not reversible, they can unilaterally start article 50 and no running commentary on negotiations. So 2 years later Parliament get a take it or leave it choice of the Brexit Boys plan.

Now we have Davis saying no idea of the plan until at least February and article 50 before the end of March. So limited time for anyone to comment/complain.

This is all about what a small group around May decide what Brexit actually means.

As for immigration, May went to India and said "we want more trade" and they said "great, we want more freedom of movement." So we may get serious restrictions on movement but I think that's likely to blow up in our faces. Remember we WILL be better off outside the EU, that's the whole point, the be all and end all.

[Ootohere]

JACOB REES-MOGG MP. 

Now there is someone with no job other than as a MP and maybe some other interests, but he speaks as though he has all the answers, 

speaks as though he represents the Conservative & Unionist Party & UK Government.

 

Fiasco of Theresa May MP / PM's making where she maybe can not control her party but surely can tell the Ministers with portfolio what they can or can not say 

while serving in her cabinet.

 

Then she can let the J R-M's and others out doing their spinning and interviews.

[domhnall]

Next time gove or farage or those devious gits say they were always clear we were leaving the single market, play this https://mobile.twitter.com/Open_Britain/status/799198320623321088/video/1

[lol-lol]

I see Project Fear is alive and well!

 

 

 

Depends in what part of the country you live... Round here the young voters were also voting leave...

It goes back to the discussion I had earlier with Offski and lol about the effects uncontrolled immigration has had and the reason Scotland and NI voted the way they did. Yes they have both had immigration but not on the level parts of England and Wales have had, I couldn't get this point across to them earlier and had to give up trying but this is the key to why England and Wales voted leave. Some of my friends in Scotland have lived in such areas of England and understood the issue but unless you have seen your jobs disappearing and wages going down you just wouldn't understand and I think it is that ignorance of the issue in Scotland that has resulted in the divide between Scots and English voters.   There is nothing wrong with immigration, even uncontrolled immigration, as long as the countries involved are all EQUAL. Currency, wages, goods, property and such things as welfare benefits, ie standard of living. In the old EEC that was the case in the main. The problems started when countries which have a much lower standard of living and fewer or less generous benefits joined and the peoples of those countries saw a chance to move out in large numbers to the countries with streets paved with gold (or so they thought) which has lead to what we have now... There's nothing wrong with immigration, on the whole it's a good thing, but you must have some form of control over it or it can have serious issues which can be seen in parts of England and Wales.  I don't think it's anything special about what the SNP has done, their aim is clear, to keep Scotland in the EU so they have nothing to lose by putting their views forward. The UK Government, however, does, and also has to think carefully about what it does so I wouldn't expect them to start publishing what they are going to do, in this situation I certainly wouldn't!  As for jumped up little ex footballers, who cares what he says, his views are worth no more than ours unless he's suddenly got some sort of qualification in economics!

 

Demographics of BREXIT voters....   https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/746255941331488768/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

[lol-lol]

When the UK leaves the EU Spain & other Continental European Countries are in trouble when lots living there stop getting Disability & Unemployment Benefits paid to them from the UK.

Lots will no longer afford to life there.

 

And will come back to the Uk and snap the NHS.

[Ootohere]

They already come back for the NHS treatments, and the DWP / HMRC Medical Assessments.

Do you think that many don't also come back for end of life with family and friends in the UK?

 

The UK and Customs have really just turned a blind eye to entry to the UK via RoI / NI.

That is those Non UK Resident but UK Passport Holders not paying UK Taxes.

As you know it is how the UK rolls, and how HMRC & the Borders Agency rolls. Open Borders with the right Passport.

 

How it works for those wealthy or important enough without a UK Passport to Fly or Sail into the UK unchecked.

Edited 19 December, 2016 by Offski

[The PM]

England is not special, just badly run with many too lazy to work, 

like Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland.

 

 

There are people like that I agree, but there are in every country, the trouble is that the system in the UK allows them to do that (or at least it did, it's getting stricter), hopefully they will change it! As i have said in the past I will agree to differ with you and do feel that you have not seen in Scotland first hand the issues of mass migration we have in certain parts of England.

 

Do you have any links or supporting evidence for that statement?

Not from the likes of The DM, The DE or The Sun either, please

 

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefingPaper/document/235

 

 

With regards to the way people voted, in particular the young, as I said in certain areas, the young did vote leave, us oldies could not have produced 65/70% votes leave on our own, granted over the whole country most young people voted remain, but I was talking specific areas, not as a whole...

Edited 19 December, 2016 by The PM

[Ootohere]

?

What system is going to make British Born Residents in the UK Work, is it benefits Sanctions?

Lots do work anyway, just on the grip.

 

I  was talking lazy Scottish, Welsh, English, Northern Irish, & other UK Dependency born lazy barstewards not Economic Migrants coming in and not working.

[Scribbler]

Demographics of BREXIT voters....   https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/746255941331488768/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

 

 

It says Exit Poll NOT Polls and there in lies the problem.

[Ootohere]

Looking forward to the UK Government arranging from 2019 that every young person between the ages of 16 & 24 not in Education or Employment in the UK 

has to do some form of full time Government Organised Work in the Community.

All required to report 5 days a week to a local 'Going to work heigh ho heigh ho centres' (Ex Job Centre Plus),

 cleaning the streets, doing care and maintenance of public buildings, growing crops. digging & cleaning up waste ground and all that kind of stuff.

 

Give then a Donkey Jacket, or a Uniform or a Suit and a pen and have them working for the good of the nations.

No work then no Mobile Phone access or internet or unable to buy fuel etc.

 

Just think how fulfilled the youth of the British Isles will feel doing something useful for the country since there is a shortage of low paid migrant workers.

All those more senior citizens unable to retire until their late 60's can supervise them, train them.

Edited 20 December, 2016 by Offski