EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[Skoda_newby]

1 hour ago, trundlenut said:

No, May is perfectly willing to burn the country to the ground, as long as the conservative party remains a single charred body afterwards.

 

I don't defend May, I'm correcting what was written. The Guardian article was written as if it was May's plan to go to Brussels to extend. It isn't. She is just making good on the vote that was made last week. And she'll probably 'f' that up too.

 

A hard Brexit is the only definite thing we have to focus on now. Let's get it over and done with and crack on.

 

[trundlenut]

11 minutes ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

I don't defend May, I'm correcting what was written. The Guardian article was written as if it was May's plan to go to Brussels to extend. It isn't. She is just making good on the vote that was made last week. And she'll probably 'f' that up too.

 

A hard Brexit is the only definite thing we have to focus on now. Let's get it over and done with and crack on.

 

you want a hard Brexit?

[Skoda_newby]

1 minute ago, trundlenut said:

you want a hard Brexit?

 

I want it over and done with. I want the amputation, just don't do it with a butter knife.

[gadgetman]

1 minute ago, trundlenut said:

you want a hard Brexit?

Everyone says they do, but with it now inevitable, we'll soon see. 

 

Once the reality of what is lost sinks in, I think many will come round to the thinking that Brexit really wasn't what it was promised to be by the Reese-Mogg and BoJo's of the world 

[trundlenut]

Just now, Skoda_newby said:

 

I want it over and done with. I want the amputation, just don't do it with a butter knife.

 

Amputate the body, leaving the limb.

 

This is the start, hard or soft brexit, this is going to get a lot harder for the next 5-10 years and be all comsuming.

 

It's not being done with a butter knife, it's doing it with a herring.

[Ryeman]

1 hour ago, trundlenut said:

No, May is perfectly willing to burn the country to the ground, as long as the conservative party remains a single charred body afterwards.

Don’t knock it - a pyrrhic victory is a victory! 

OK  !

[@Lee]

Maybe a hard brexit is what some people need to realise how insignificant the UK actually is in the world :(

[Skoda_newby]

2 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

 

Amputate the body, leaving the limb.

 

This is the start, hard or soft brexit, this is going to get a lot harder for the next 5-10 years and be all comsuming.

 

It's not being done with a butter knife, it's doing it with a herring.

 

I voted out, and I've never said that what's going on now is a well organised affair. Be sure, Our Government has let us down. It's a mess. It's not the way it should have been handled. I think the writing was on the wall as soon as the Chequers deal was presented.

 

But let's just get it over and done with and face the new day, rather that dwelling on what could be.

[@Lee]

Just now, Skoda_newby said:

 

 Our Government has let us down. It's a mess.

Nope. The people who've let the UK down are the very people who've scarpered. There was never a plan as to what brexit meant or how it would be done.
Brexit means brexit means a dozen different things depending on who's talking about it and who's saying what they think it means.

[gadgetman]

3 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Maybe a hard brexit is what some people need to realise how insignificant the UK actually is in the world :(

A few years time we'll be begging to rejoin the EU hook line and sinker. 

 

As a remainer that angers me as I like the relationship we have now - I don't want the euro or full schengen 

[Ryeman]

I take it that crashing out will mean burning your bridges on a potential change of mind.

[@Lee]

3 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

A few years time we'll be begging to rejoin the EU hook line and sinker. 

 

As a remainer that angers me as I like the relationship we have now - I don't want the euro or full schengen 

Yup. It's been said so many times already; the UK's got the best deal of any of the other 27 by a long chalk.

[Skoda_newby]

1 minute ago, gadgetman said:

A few years time we'll be begging to rejoin the EU hook line and sinker. 

 

As a remainer that angers me as I like the relationship we have now - I don't want the euro or full schengen 

 

So what of the rhetoric that's presented as "once you're out, you're out"? I don't think going back is an option. I bet the Eurozone will fall apart in 20 years anyway. Too much variation in culture and money sources. Countries can't keep propping up other countries indefinitely.

[Ryeman]

1 minute ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

So what of the rhetoric that's presented as "once you're out, you're out"? I don't think going back is an option. I bet the Eurozone will fall apart in 20 years anyway. Too much variation in culture and money sources. Countries can't keep propping up other countries indefinitely.

That’s what Putin is banking on.

[Skoda_newby]

1 minute ago, Ryeman said:

That’s what Putin is banking on.

 

Well then the UK will be best placed with established trade ties by then.

[trundlenut]

7 minutes ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

I voted out, and I've never said that what's going on now is a well organised affair. Be sure, Our Government has let us down. It's a mess. It's not the way it should have been handled. I think the writing was on the wall as soon as the Chequers deal was presented.

 

But let's just get it over and done with and face the new day, rather that dwelling on what could be.

Why did you vote out? 

 

There is no over and done with it, there will be no over and done with it.  Unless you can move the UK somewhere else on the globe, our relationship with the EU is going to consume a huge amount of government capacity for years and years and years.  It will impact business for years to come.  It will overshadow anything and everything the government tries do, be it the NHS, social care, industrial policy, it will suck the life out of everything.

 

After 3 years we don't know what we want.

[trundlenut]

2 minutes ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

Well then the UK will be best placed with established trade ties by then.

If the EU falls apart we are screwed, in or out.  Unless we have already burnt everything to the ground, in which case we might offer to share a few rats if we have any spare.

[Skoda_newby]

2 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

If the EU falls apart we are screwed, in or out.  Unless we have already burnt everything to the ground, in which case we might offer to share a few rats if we have any spare.

 

Watch this again. I'm not sure if you're someone with a higher standing than this man, but he seems to know what he's on about. Listen to his replies:

 

[Ryeman]

I imagine a lot (most) of you travelling on the continent are going to be spending a lot of your time apologising for your apparent contempt for your nearest neighbors.

[CWARD]

1 minute ago, Ryeman said:

I imagine a lot (most) of you travelling on the continent are going to be spending a lot of your time apologising for your apparent contempt for your nearest neighbors.

 

Why, what contempt for our nearest neighbours? They aren’t the E.U.  

[Ryeman]

Going from one of the big fish in a big pond to being a small one in a massive one is quite some achievement.

 

[trundlenut]

9 minutes ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

Watch this again. I'm not sure if you're someone with a higher standing than this man, but he seems to know what he's on about. Listen to his replies:

 

He is very careful with his words.  When asked about the impact of no deal he says it might cause a few problems in the short term, but he is sure we can reach a deal to sort them out.  When it is pointed out that we don't deal with countries like the US only on WTO terms he waffles and doesn't answer the question, as he does with a number of other questions.  He says a lot but often doesn't actually address the question.

 

A lot of what he says is very similar to a speech he gave at Conservative Way Forward where he followed the disgraced former defence secretary.  Very rousing, Britannia rules the waves and all that, 1945, Churchill etc. etc.

 

He is also associated with, or part of the Bruges Group.  Let us say that the these two groups have a quite particular view of the EU and the latter seem to like right wing US political groups as well as Nigel Farage.  The Bruges Group latest event was titled "A Budget for Brexit" and featured speakers such as John Redwood and everyone's favourite economist Patrick Minford as well as the Chair of Leave Means Leave, John Longworth.

 

So it would appear he was there more as a Brexit supporter rather than an exporter.

 

He is also a member of the Conservative Foreign & Commonwealth Council, which is affiliated to the conservative party and describes itself thus: The purpose of the Conservative Foreign & Commonwealth Council is to provide a forum for the discussion of international relations to promote greater understanding and awareness.  We visit embassies and high commissions and host events in Parliament.

[Ryeman]

^^^^^^^ He is an expert in flannel and question avoidance in the same mould as Boris and Nigel.

No specifics  -  just “trust me” blather.

[CWARD]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/19/monsanto-trial-roundup-verdict-edwin-hardeman-cancer

 

Will the E.U. finally pull the license on glyphosate even though it was surprise they ever licensed it in the first place. No doubt the lobbyists from Bayer helped especially when the proof glyphosate was safe to use was cut and pasted from the manufacturer themselves. 

 

 

[trundlenut]

5 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

^^^^^^^ He is an expert in flannel and question avoidance in the same mould as Boris and Nigel.

No specifics  -  just “trust me” blather.

He is a busy man.  CEO and MD of two companies, he is an active contributor to two All-Party Parliamentary Groups, four Westminster Think-Tanks and the Department for International Trade. His interests are as an Author, in Physics, International Business, Social Justice, the Constitution, South Asia, International & Strategic Affairs, Defence, the British Commonwealth and bringing UK Scientists into business.  He is actually a director of 4 companies.  Coltraco is a truncation of the Colonial Trading Company.  Coltraco is also a small business, but the details on companies house don't match the information on their website.