Steering rods - fed up

[2ndskoda]

XMAN

the part you have shown in your last post is a track rod  - NOT a ball joint or track rod end

 

This is a track rod end / ball joint

Edited 26 December, 2016 by 2ndskoda

[xman]

An inner tie rod end cut open to expose the ball joint.

[hutchysrs50]

Good work, that's the rack end so should keep some people happy.

Looks like they supply the grease with it :D

The ball joint on the right of the picture is "open" not sealed. Apply grease to it and move it around to spread, it's very easy and straight farward.

Obviously it's a little more complicated when fitted but the same process

[xman]

You can't lubricate a ball joint correctly without stripping it down, which is not possible in this case. Rather than prolonging this arguement, lets see what Skoda says.

Edited 26 December, 2016 by xman

[2ndskoda]

xman, you are not reading and understanding what people are telling you

 

 

In post 19, you yourself stated  "Bit difficult as they appear to be sealed ball joints."

 

This indicates clearly that you are looking at the outer end - WHEREAS, we are all talking about the inner end which can be dismantled and re greased or replaced. This part is within the steering rack boot.

Edited 26 December, 2016 by 2ndskoda

[hutchysrs50]

You can't lubricate a ball joint correctly without stripping it down, which is not possible in this case. Rather than prolonging this arguement, lets see what Skoda says.

That's fine, I wasn't arguing simply showing you what needs to be done.

Good luck with Skoda, hopefully they replace and problem solved.

For another curve ball, supply your own parts? :D

[KenONeill]

As 2ndskoda says, with the further note that I'd consider outer rod ends (Attach to uprights; see his #26) to be pretty much service items. Short of neglect or an assembly failure, I'd normally consider inner rod ends (attached to rack; see xman's #27) to be lived with the rack.

[Ootohere]

'Faulty Manufacturing, Materials, or use / fitting', resulted in a TPI on the parts that the VW Group knew they sourced and Skoda fitted,

so Warranty Replacement took place, 

months and months of Owners being told, 'They all do that',  The lady that works in the offices has a Fabia that does that, etc.

 

That was while people reported issues when putting cars in for 'Skoda Main Dealer Servicing etc.'

 

So wear and tear and lack of servicing is not an issue, other than Servicing being a Look See and ignore, even after the TPI was issued.

Edited 26 December, 2016 by Offski

[rum4mo]

Maybe I'm wrong as usual, but I was reading "xman"'s postings as him being very aware that what he was discussing was a track rod/steering rod - and that part of that assembly, as used by VAG on these cars, is a ball joint/swivel end which is a sealed unit for the purposes of this discussion - ie you can not open up or service the swiveling end of the rod.

Also, I'd suspect that any regreasing that can be done in service, is just a fudge to be applied only to "move a car on". 

Yes, I am old enough to have refurbished track rod inner ball joints, ie new nylon cup and spring, retighten, drill and secure with a pin hammered in.

[2ndskoda]

rum4mo

 

yes..... "you have got it wrong as usual"

 

I quote "ie you can not open up or service the swivelling end of the rod"  Of course you can, and this is being made clear by many posters!

 

If you were correct in your statement, that would mean that the skoda dealers would be unable to fit new track rods - and that every problem would require the complete replacement of the steering rack assembly.!!!

[Ootohere]

Sadly some did pay for Steering Racks or other parts because they were lead to believe that was required and they were out of Warranty or not covered by warranty.

 

Now the point of this thread is Warranty Parts replaced expire when the Original Manufactures Warranty expires, even when the Parts fitted are not fit for purpose.

The difference is those that Paid or another Warranty Provider paid for OEM parts get a 2 year Warranty on the parts.

[rum4mo]

rum4mo

 

yes..... "you have got it wrong as usual"

 

I quote "ie you can not open up or service the swivelling end of the rod"  Of course you can, and this is being made clear by many posters!

 

If you were correct in your statement, that would mean that the skoda dealers would be unable to fit new track rods - and that every problem would require the complete replacement of the steering rack assembly.!!!

 

Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to see you servicing the inner rod joint in these cars, the complete steering rod or track rod assembly is secured to the end of the rack by means of a threaded end.  I've re-read what I wrote, and I have not edit'd that posting, and I can't see where I tried to say that  the rack complete with its steering rods (track rods) is a complete sealed assembly - I have had to replace these rods on a 2002 Polo once, not for creaking, but for movement!

[Wonky]

These track rods do indeed screw into the end of the rack assembly. Hopefully the image shows what rum4mo is trying to convey.

[rum4mo]

Thank you "Wonky" same as shown in posting 25 if anyone is in any doubt.

[2ndskoda]

Wonky - rum4mo - xman

 

Looking at Wonky's post #38 - I have no hesitation in saying I got it wrong.  :(  So unreserved apologies all round! 

 

Having never seen the layout illustrated before, I wrongly made the assumption that the 'retaining collar' was removable thus exposing the innards like most racks in my motor trade days were assembled - clearly I have to eat humble pie.

I think I will now have to emigrate to escape the shame of it all!!!!

[Wonky]

No problem.

A man who has never made a mistake, has never made anything.

Everyone have a great time.

[GeneralPurpose]

Wonky - rum4mo - xman

 

Looking at Wonky's post #38 - I have no hesitation in saying I got it wrong.  :(  So unreserved apologies all round! 

 

Having never seen the layout illustrated before, I wrongly made the assumption that the 'retaining collar' was removable thus exposing the innards like most racks in my motor trade days were assembled - clearly I have to eat humble pie.

I think I will now have to emigrate to escape the shame of it all!!!!

 

I wouldn't worry about it 2ndskoda. No one else will. We all misunderstand each other all the time, it's part of being on a forum where we all use slightly different terminology and language. I get misunderstood all the time, mainly by my wife. I often say..."I'm off to get some groceries" but she hears..."I'm off for a spin on the motorcycle"...dunno where I'm going wrong!!

 

Xman, sorry to hear you have issue with creaking. I'm pretty sure you have a minimum of 3 months warranty AFTER your main car warranty runs out if the repair is paid for by Skoda. But it has to be more or less repaired just as the warranty run out. The repair also has to be of merchantable quality or fit for purpose or something like that! I had a new starter motor fitted under warranty to my Warrior at the 36 month point and it was given a three month warranty. The Warrior had a 3 year warranty so the starter motor was in fact still covered for an extra 3 months. It's also worth remembering that any fault normally covered under warranty and reported while the vehicle is under warranty, and not properly repaired under warranty, is still under warranty even if it's several months outside of the manufacturers warranty period. So I'd fully expect your creaking problem to be sorted under warranty. You can speak with Citizens Advice on their national number and discuss this with them. The new consumer rights act came into force last October and it gives us slightly more rights. Worth checking mate!

Edited 29 December, 2016 by Estate Man

[xman]

Dealer has already agreed it will be fixed foc as soon as the problem is confirmed when it goes in next week.

What is to be resolved is to why they keeps failing and in such a short time (< 3 months). They say mine is the only fabia that had more than one replacement.

And what will happen if they fail again? I am hoping for Skoda Uk to give me a written warranty on these parts of 3+ years. These should be lifetime parts.

[KenONeill]

Like on post #43 applies to Para3 sentence3.

[xman]

Well, the car's been in past two days at the dealer and their technicians have confirmed the steering rods have gone AGAIN and talked to Skoda Technical. Despite earlier assurances that the dealer would get it sorted foc, the service manager phoned me today to say SKODA IS REFUSING TO PAY TO REPAIR as the car is out of warranty (3 months), despite the last set being replaced less than 3 months ago.

Price to repair is an eyewatering £529, quoting price of one steering rod at £98.36+vat (they are around £20 in ecp). The service manager gave me a long preprepared spiel, about no warranty on warranty repairs, and why steering rods could fail (damp, being stood, aggressive driving etc etc.) none of which apply.

Then came the offer of 50% goodwill discount supposedly from the dealer with no contribution from Skoda which I declined, and I asked for contact with Skoda direct.

I phoned Skoda customer care, who pointed out the 50% discount was from Skoda and not the dealer as they had stated and was surprised the dealer did not offer an additional contribution.

I got them to escalate this to a case handler (probably Friday before they can look) and I await their call.

All in all, this is definitely putting me off any future Skoda ownership. Currently have 3 skoda cars, all are to be replaced in next 1 - 3 years, which would likely all have been Superbs.

Recap, car bought Oct 2013

1st set replaced 25/8/15 30k (they had been creaking over a year at this point)

2nd set replaced 16/5/16 47k

3rd set replaced 6/10/16 58k

4th set confirmed faulty 9/1/17 65k

[Breezy_Pete]

Astonishing.

Considerable sympathy in your direction for what it's worth. Entirely understand your attitude to future purchases.

[GeneralPurpose]

This is appalling xman. Surely your car was repaired with faulty components, or, the techs missed something that they should have picked up that is causing the issue (but cannot think what that would be just now). Either way, you should not have to pay as the repair was not of merchantable quality. Repairs under warranty have to be of merchantable quality and not just good enough to get you 3 months down the road. I'd have a chat to Citizens Advice if I were you. Speak with them on their national number, it's free and they are very good indeed. They will at least be able to confirm your rights in this case. Please keep posting on this. Let us know what is going on. 

[spartacus68]

I've heard of tie rod ends failing, but rarely the inner rods. £529... they're having a laugh!

If Skoda or the dealer don't come back with a better deal, then look at fitting Meyle HD parts. Either fit yourself or get a trusted independent garage. Meyle definitely do the outer tie rods, but don't know about the inners? Comes with a 4 year warranty as standard.

I'd be inclined to do the outer and inner rods to overhaul so-to-speak. Get the tracking adjusted afterwards and ensure tyre pressures are spot on. I take it when you're turning the wheel you're always moving? I've seen some folk park their cars and go hard lock to hard lock while stationary. Enough to make me lose my fillings while I grit my teeth!

[rum4mo]

I thought that there had been some interwebnetforum chatter about the TRE being blamed for causing creaking when the steering wheel was turned, now whither this was Fabia/Polo/Ibiza I can't say, but the conclusion seemed to be that it only concerned a "bad batch" of TREs and once all cars had new TREs fitted under warranty, this problem vanished.

 

Though, with the training plus experience of normal dealership Techs, this must be a completely different problem as they are identifying the inner swivel as being the root cause of your problem.

 

Finally, on the cost of new VW group steering rods - yes, when my wife's 2002 Polo asked for new steering rods when it was maybe 10 years old, after finding out the VW price then the ECP (TRW or Febi or ?) ones, it was a no brainer - even better savings if buying the ECP ones complete with new TREs as opposed to buying the rods and the TREs separately!

[octyal]

Interesting thread - I would summise that incorrect fitting is going on somewhere, or as has been stated contamination of the lubricant, either during fitting, or during manufacture.

 

Are they still using cable ties? If so, that may be contributing to the failure as they do not seal correctly - info from TRW below

 

 

XZS149GB.pdf