Cruelty to humans - right to die?

[@Lee]

I'm all for the idea.

If it could have taken away the pain and suffering my mum endured over her last few years with metastatic cancer. The mastectomy she had only delayed the inevitable.

Eventually the ****** C found its way into her liver, her spine and elsewhere.

Watching her gasp her last breath in Dorchester hospital is the most painful thing I've ever seen.

58 years old. No age really. We talked about it my step-father and I but that's as far as we could go legally. That was in 2009.

[VWD]

Lee- my dad- very healthy 86 year old , had a stroke at 85. He had a "living will", prohibiting any intervention if he needed resuscitation . BUT for the last year of his life he lived in a dark place to him. On my visits up north, I never heard him ask for help to end his life, but al he wanted to do was to be with his wife. ( who died several years previous) .He died at 86, and was cremated. Both sets of ashes were set free where they first courted ( and I's suspect bit more). Into a Highland loch .

[@Lee]

Both sets of ashes were set free where they first courted ( and I's suspect bit more). Into a Highland loch .

My mum was a Weegie (Glaswegian for those who don't know). We let her ashes flow into the Firth of Clyde at Largs. One of her wishes.

[KenONeill]

Lee- my dad- very healthy 86 year old , had a stroke at 85. He had a "living will", prohibiting any intervention if he needed resuscitation . BUT for the last year of his life he lived in a dark place to him. On my visits up north, I never heard him ask for help to end his life, but al he wanted to do was to be with his wife. ( who died several years previous) .He died at 86, and was cremated. Both sets of ashes were set free where they first courted ( and I's suspect bit more). Into a Highland loch .

I won't say I like this, but I totally endorse the use of living wills and do not resuscitate orders.

[Aspman]

My Dad(72) has prostate cancer which is incurable but held in check for now. One day the treatment will stop working; might me next month, might be 10yr away.

 

He's very fit for his age and only gave up canoing and running recently after a three heart stents were needed. The idea of being in a care home horrifies him as does the idea of the cancer getting him. He'll off himself first I'm certain of it, and I wouldn't blame him. He's already showed me where he wants his ashes scattered.

 

I'm definitely with Colin, nice spot in the hills. Bottle of something enjoyable, laminated note for the finder and a big pile of stashed painkillers. An understanding doc would probably prescribe the right thing for you some months before. Barbiturates would do the trick in a very pleasant way.

[Loz]

No.

It isn't.

It really isn't.

Of course it is! It very much involves people who will still be living, not least the doctor who administers the dose. Stop being so blinded by compassion.

I've watched people I love die horribly. I'm simply highlighting WHY this has not been legalised. I'm not stating opinion or my own views/wishes/desires.

So far what I have said is backed up by what has happened in court so far. I doubt this person will get a different result if I'm honest.

[mikey vrs]

My mum has MS & her health mentally & physically is now that bad that she has been in a care home for the last 6 years (from the age of 60) & can not do anything herself & needs 24 hr care & is bed ridden,i know her wishes were to never live like this,she has no quality of life at all,all the care home are doing is looking after her & making her day to day life acceptable,i have managed to put a "No Resuscitation" notice in her notes should things become so bad,she has had two seizures over the last year but has recovered (well,survived is probably the best description) If i could legally end her life & stop her suffering then i would. 

[Tilt]

I cannot see why it should be Illegal though.

 

If a human being wants to end their own life, their decision (imo) has bugger all to do with anyone else except immediate family, and I would hope that their family would both understand and support their decision, however heart breaking this would be for all concerned.

 

We put our beloved pets to sleep when necessary, to save them pain and suffering, and for most pet owners this would be just as equally heart wrenching.......

 

Talk of 'murder' is a totally different thing, and associating it with peoples right to die is just silly.

[@Lee]

I cannot see why it should be Illegal though.

If a human being wants to end their own life, their decision (imo) has bugger all to do with anyone else except immediate family, and I would hope that their family would both understand and support their decision, however heart breaking this would be for all concerned.

We put our beloved pets to sleep when necessary, to save them pain and suffering, and for most pet owners this would be just as equally heart wrenching.......

Talk of 'murder' is a totally different thing, and associating it with peoples right to die is just silly.

It's my opinion that the UK is very stuck in its ways when it comes to a lot of things. Outdated laws and very slow to create new laws that reflect a modern world and changing times and public opinion. 'They' know best though, right?!

[Aspman]

I cannot see why it should be Illegal though.

 

If a human being wants to end their own life, their decision (imo) has bugger all to do with anyone else except immediate family, and I would hope that their family would both understand and support their decision, however heart breaking this would be for all concerned.

 

It's not illegal to top yourself. It used to be. So if you botched the job you could well in up in gaol. Hardly a help for people with depression etc.

 

The hard bit here is to get adequate proof that you are making the decision in sound mind and without undue pressure. That you really do want this and that there is no help available or actions that could be taken that could make your life worthwhile for longer.

 

Also a lot of the debate is really around assisted death which is probably where most of us would be in reality if the choice was there. If you're going to go by your own hand then the likelihood is that you'd need to choose to go earlier than you otherwise would have becasue you need to be capable of carrying out the act.

 

If like Colin you'd like to go at the top of a hill, with a bottle of booze on a cold day and finish the job with a good view, you have to be well enough to climb that hill yourself.

[Tilt]

It is not easy to top yourself for most people. This is one reason why I think a right to die using assistance should not be illegal.

 

And the person assisting should not be persecuted.

 

I am talking of someone of sound mind making their own decisions.

 

If these issues were more out in the open, and talked about in this country then maybe people would not be so scared of dying, or more likely scared of not being able to look after themselves due to illness or old age and being in pain and suffering, at the mercy of a carer, and the worry that they get one that doesn't really care.

 

One of my worst fears is this, with no use of my limbs and only my brain working overtime. I would beg someone end it and if I could register that decision now, I would.

[Loz]

I cannot see why it should be Illegal though.

If a human being wants to end their own life, their decision (imo) has bugger all to do with anyone else except immediate family, and I would hope that their family would both understand and support their decision, however heart breaking this would be for all concerned.

We put our beloved pets to sleep when necessary, to save them pain and suffering, and for most pet owners this would be just as equally heart wrenching.......

Talk of 'murder' is a totally different thing, and associating it with peoples right to die is just silly.

As mentioned, it's no longer illegal to kill yourself. Even most life insurance policies will pay out for suicide these days.

When you're asking about another person causing the death - that's the whole reason for the massive grey area and opens up a multitude of risks.

And fwiw it does fit the legal definition of murder - to kill another person with the intention of killing or causing GBH.

[gadgetman]

Far too complicated either way.

Given the various dodgy doctors over the years just makes it more difficult to change laws.

I get both sides, but too many opportunities for a murder to take place under the guise of assisted suicide for both individuals and medical professionals.

[Tilt]

And fwiw it does fit the legal definition of murder - to kill another person with the intention of killing or causing GBH.

As mentioned, it's not easy to kill yourself for most people

Maybe this definition could be changed to - To kill another person without the intention of saving them and their family lots of pain and anguish.

 

We get 'the grey area'.

 

Fairly sure all of us supporters are talking about genuine people who want to end a loved ones pain.

I do not think a loved one should be forced to continue a life of pain and suffering, and the family have to live with their suffering because of a worry of other peoples actions.

[Loz]

As above - I've seen people suffer too. I totally get the idea. All I'm stating are facts. And any time I come to think about it, I can see why the legal issues are greater (in the scheme of the country and future outcomes) than the one poor person sat in front of the judges. That is all.

[Aspman]

As mentioned, it's not easy to kill yourself for most people

Maybe this definition could be changed to - To kill another person without the intention of saving them and their family lots of pain and anguish.

 

We get 'the grey area'.

 

Fairly sure all of us supporters are talking about genuine people who want to end a loved ones pain.

I do not think a loved one should be forced to continue a life of pain and suffering, and the family have to live with their suffering because of a worry of other peoples actions.

 

 

I think most reasonable people hope that this issue will get resolved. I certainly support it with the right checks and balances. 

[gadgetman]

I think most reasonable people hope that this issue will get resolved. I certainly support it with the right checks and balances.

Yup just need to establish the right checks and safe guards.

It'll happen.

[octyal]

Absolutely it should be legalised - I have seen close friends and family suffer for years with degenerative diseases, and to them, having that option would have ended the suffering years ago. After all (as has been pointed out) we wouldn't allow an animal to suffer unduly would we? If we did, then the relevant authorities would prosecute as far as they could. Maybe it's time for some legal cases to be fought on the argument of undue suffering to a human being by prolonging the life beyond what is deemed to be acceptable (if that makes sense)

[gadgetman]

There have been a number of such high profile cases taken to both the supreme & eu courts and all have failed.

There was one seeking monetary support for such a case on the itv news recently

[CFB]

As far as changing the law goes, if it ever happens, I think it might mirror the Swiss laws in place now.

A bit long winded to quote, but have a look at my link further up the thread, it might provide some clarification.

[Tilt]

As above - I've seen people suffer too. I totally get the idea. All I'm stating are facts. And any time I come to think about it, I can see why the legal issues are greater (in the scheme of the country and future outcomes) than the one poor person sat in front of the judges. That is all.

It is not just "the one poor person" though, is it!

 

And as I stated, imo it has nothing to do with anyone else other than immediate family and the person involved. And for me that statement includes judges.

 

Sure, there has to be guidelines, but I do not think someone who has to make that kind of decision (to call it a choice undermines the enormity of the decision) should have to seek permission from anyone else so long as the guidelines have been followed.

[Loz]

In each case - yes, it is one person.

Please tell me again how it doesn't involve the person who administers the dose?

Actually, don't bother lol

[Tilt]

Ok, I won't.

 

What I will say is you have made your points and I have made mine. They are just my (and some others) beliefs and if you do not agree with them then that is fine.

You do not have to reiterate your points over and over again and again.

 

It will not change my beliefs. Enough said.

[SkodaVRS1963]

As mentioned, it's not easy to kill yourself for most people

 

I was in a very dark place a few years ago; I thoroughly researched suicide.

 

The biggest obstacle, by a country mile, was how resilient the human body is to dying.

 

I don't think people realise how difficult it is to top yourself!  "Oh, 60 paracetamol and a bottle of vodka will do"...........no, you survive with massive liver damage.

 

Damn the human body :D

Edited 10 January, 2017 by SkodaVRS1963

[SkodaVRS1963]

Far too complicated either way.

Given the various dodgy doctors over the years just makes it more difficult to change laws.

I get both sides, but too many opportunities for a murder to take place under the guise of assisted suicide for both individuals and medical professionals.

 

Point taken but a signed affidavit saying "kill me when my cancer becomes untreatable" is pretty bombproof when a GP has given me a lethal injection when my cancer is no longer treatable.

 

He's abiding by the Hippocratic Oath and putting the wishes of the patient first, surely?