Diesel engine software update! Yes or No?

[Hoverurb]

I had my 170 "done" today while it was in for a cam belt change, no difference whatsoever.

I have trade contacts (hardware and software) and most agree that all that's done on the 170 is remove the cheat software .   

[Breezy_Pete]

How's the fuel consumption over a full tank relative to before? Frequency of regens?

Any chance it's too early to say?

 

 

[Hoverurb]

Give me a few weeks and I'll know more, tomorrow's run is about two hours on varied roads so not much of a test, I do very little slow town/city driving so regens have never been an issue unlike my city daughters 1.6 Leon.

[stroppyjock]

Hi Chimaera, just checked on the mfd as I do the trip monthly to pick up my son and bring him home for the weekend,so. Went down to Glasgow and back twice!!!!

[lichfielddriver]

seems VW have run out of new EGR valves since the fixing started... at £900 a throw they must be feeling a bit sick

[Ootohere]

^^^ Where did you hear that 'They seem to have run out of new EGR valves since the fixing started', 

 

What is the connection to the fix, is there an increase in failures?

[Guest]

Will I get it done. No.

I like the way the car works so it wont be touched whilst I own it.

[silver1011]

On 28/02/2017 at 21:40, Hoverurb said:

I had my 170 "done" today while it was in for a cam belt change, no difference whatsoever.

I have trade contacts (hardware and software) and most agree that all that's done on the 170 is remove the cheat software .   

 

So the vehicle remains non-compliant?

 

Removing the cheat software is one thing, actively reducing the emissions is a requirement too, so unless VAG are expecting you to take your car back for further changes I'm pretty sure more has been done to your car than you and your friends suspect.

[Hoverurb]

12 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

 

So the vehicle remains non-compliant?

 

Removing the cheat software is one thing, actively reducing the emissions is a requirement too, so unless VAG are expecting you to take your car back for further changes I'm pretty sure more has been done to your car than you and your friends suspect.

The vehicles have always been compliant and pass all emission test requirements over here, If any more has been done to the software is hasn't made the car any different to drive.

[silver1011]

Are you sure?

 

I was on the understanding that vehicles were not compliant, hence the recall.

 

Removing the cheat software alone seems rather pointless after the car has been type approved.

 

Other engines with the same cheat software have had to have hardware fitted to reduce the emissions.

[langers2k]

@silver1011 from what I understand, they have only admitted cheating in the US and claim anything they are doing is legal under EU regulations. The current emissions fix in the UK is to reassure customers their cars do not have defeat devices fitted.

 

Quote

Asked by Labour’s Clive Efford why Volkswagen is recalling 1.2million cars across the UK and 8.5 million across Europe, Willis [Paul Willis, managing director of Volkswagen UK] stated, “Our position is that there is nothing wrong with any of them at all.

 

“That is our position, that the cars weren’t fitted with defeat devices. Some people don’t necessarily agree with us, and so, therefore, to remove any doubt whatsoever, that is why we are applying the technical measures.”

 

Full article is here https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2017/02/vws-uk-boss-faces-grilling-from-mps-as-furore-over-dieselgate-crisis-grows-in-europe/

[silver1011]

Hmm, I wonder what the hardware requirements on some of the other engines are for then?

[Breezy_Pete]

3 minutes ago, langers2k said:

@silver1011 from what I understand, they have only admitted cheating in the US and claim anything they are doing is legal under EU regulations. The current emissions fix in the UK is to reassure customers their cars do not have defeat devices fitted.

 

 

Full article is here https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2017/02/vws-uk-boss-faces-grilling-from-mps-as-furore-over-dieselgate-crisis-grows-in-europe/

 

The current emissions fix in the UK is to make the cars comply with the emissions requirements of EU5 without using special software that only kicks in when the EU5 test environment is detected. Whether that that special software is legally describable as a defeat device is rather besides the point, they've had to change the way the ECU controls the emissions equipment so that it can pass the test without detecting a 'special, must be on my best behaviour' situation.

 

[chimaera]

1 hour ago, Hoverurb said:

The vehicles have always been compliant and pass all emission test requirements over here, If any more has been done to the software is hasn't made the car any different to drive.

No they haven't. That was the whole point of the cheat - to get the car to pass the EU5 type approval test without actually being compliant on the road. The reason for the recall/fix is to replace the 2-mode operating software with a single mode that is EU5 compliant.

[Hoverurb]

1 minute ago, chimaera said:

No they haven't. That was the whole point of the cheat - to get the car to pass the EU5 type approval test without actually being compliant on the road. The reason for the recall/fix is to replace the 2-mode operating software with a single mode that is EU5 compliant.

True but any of the affected cars will pass Irish NCT one way or the other, and don't forget EU5 is different from the US regs that are so often quoted.  

[chimaera]

Just now, Hoverurb said:

True but any of the affected cars will pass Irish NCT one way or the other, and don't forget EU5 is different from the US regs that are so often quoted.  

Yes, but the NCT emissions test for diesels is a joke.

 

Irish law requires all cars sold here to be UNECE type approved, which includes the relevant emissions approval. Since the cars have been shown to be non-compliant with part of the type approval regulations, the manufacturer has had to issue the service campaign.

[Hoverurb]

Just now, chimaera said:

Yes, but the NCT emissions test for diesels is a joke.

 

Irish law requires all cars sold here to be UNECE type approved, which includes the relevant emissions approval. Since the cars have been shown to be non-compliant with part of the type approval regulations, the manufacturer has had to issue the service campaign.

 

Joke or not it's whats in place at the moment, in reality pretty much everybody's forgotten about it, more worried about Mercs going on fire these days.

[langers2k]

10 hours ago, Wino said:

 

The current emissions fix in the UK is to make the cars comply with the emissions requirements of EU5 without using special software that only kicks in when the EU5 test environment is detected. Whether that that special software is legally describable as a defeat device is rather besides the point, they've had to change the way the ECU controls the emissions equipment so that it can pass the test without detecting a 'special, must be on my best behaviour' situation.

 

 

8 hours ago, chimaera said:

No they haven't. That was the whole point of the cheat - to get the car to pass the EU5 type approval test without actually being compliant on the road. The reason for the recall/fix is to replace the 2-mode operating software with a single mode that is EU5 compliant.

 

I know the software has been proven as a cheat in US but as far as I'm aware, it hasn't been proven as a cheat in Europe.

 

Anyone got a source to show it is a proven EU5 cheat and that it's active? I've not seen much reported on either recently.

 

 

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

A VW group spokesman admitted it to the Panorama programme months and months ago. 

 

About 12:20 in on this link

 

Edited 8 March, 2017 by Wino

[langers2k]

19 minutes ago, Wino said:

A VW group spokesman admitted it to the Panorama programme months and months ago. 

 

They agreed that the ECU was changing emissions strategy when the car did not recognise it was on test, not that it was in breach of the regulations.

 

The question is: has this behaviour proven to be using a method which is in breach of the European regulations?

 

VW claim it's not in breach and I've not seen anything to categorically confirm that it does breach the regulations. I'm not saying it's morally right or should be allowed, just that if VW/Bosch have been suitably clever they could both cheat the test and also conform to an interpretation of the regs.

[Breezy_Pete]

Changing emissions strategy for an emissions test. How can that not be cheating? You're right; the answer is either that the rules/laws governing the test are a bit crap. Or...it's not in the overall interests of the EU to end VW Group. Or both.

 

Clever is definitely the wrong word.

Devious, disgraceful, desperate seem more appropriate to me.

[niveketak]

Well having said mine seems no different after the update here in France, I towed my 1400 kg caravan 3 weeks ago and the difference was bad. Less pull, more use of 3rd and 4th gears won't pull 6 at all with the caravan on unless taken up to 120 kilometres per hour in 4th and 5th first then anything below 110 kph and forget it. Fuel economy similar solo but much worse with the caravan than before the update. Noisier as well. Now remapped to 183 bhp. Was 123 bhp at the wheels now 167 and torque up by 60 foot/pounds to 305. Quieter and smoother than before and biggest bonus, insurance company took a note of the printout and said not a problem as long as I didn't get speeding fines by the bucketload so no rise in premiums.

[Bristolf2b]

I sold my Superb in March, I have a letter from the DVLA to prove they know I don't own it dated 23rd March and I informed Skoda UK in March as well to stop any further  correspondence as well as my supplying dealer.

On saturday I received a 'final reminder' that the EA189 mod needs doing, offering to get it done at home or work.  I phoned up to ask why I had the letter, even though the DVLA know I don't own it, Skoda UK knows I don't own it. The answer? The letters are printed up to three months in advance. how can they expect the details to be accurate that far in advance?