"Front Assist Unavailable"

[Kenton]

Hi All, Long time lurker, first time poster!

 

On Monday I was sat in traffic and an orange triangle came up on my dash and I got the message "Front Assist Unavailable" (It's a 2017 Superb Estate SE Technology).  I called Skoda UK and was directed to My local Dealer (Mitchells) and was told to bring it in for them to read the codes.  I did so today and was met at the service desk by a guy who seemed annoyed that I had been told to just turn up.  Anyway, they took it around the back and 30 minutes or so later I was told that it would need booking in as it's out of calibration.

 

Apparently it will need to go to the VW dealer to get this done, and the earliest that they would be able to do this is the 31st July! Over 5 weeks away! No apology for the long wait just "there's your keys, your car is parked at the front".

 

Is this a common fault?  I've only done about 2600 miles since getting it at the beginning of May! I really hope this isnt going to happen every 6 weeks!

[Khalfani]

I had the same problem with SEL version in your country. They had to recalibrate or something like that the sensor infront. I have managed to fix it on their cost. I had about 8000 km when this happen

[Superb170]

16 hours ago, Kenton said:

Hi All, Long time lurker, first time poster!

 

On Monday I was sat in traffic and an orange triangle came up on my dash and I got the message "Front Assist Unavailable" (It's a 2017 Superb Estate SE Technology).  I called Skoda UK and was directed to My local Dealer (Mitchells) and was told to bring it in for them to read the codes.  I did so today and was met at the service desk by a guy who seemed annoyed that I had been told to just turn up.  Anyway, they took it around the back and 30 minutes or so later I was told that it would need booking in as it's out of calibration.

 

Apparently it will need to go to the VW dealer to get this done, and the earliest that they would be able to do this is the 31st July! Over 5 weeks away! No apology for the long wait just "there's your keys, your car is parked at the front".

 

Is this a common fault?  I've only done about 2600 miles since getting it at the beginning of May! I really hope this isnt going to happen every 6 weeks!

Yes, this has occurred on some Superbs and speaking to my dealer, they have seen it on a few of models.  I had the same and had it recalibrated (see below).  Not every dealer has the equipment required to calibrate and I had to take it to a dealer a few hundred kilometres always, all fully covered by Skoda of course.  Once its calibrated, it should be fine after that.  Bit of a pain waiting 5 weeks though!

 

[Kenton]

I complained to Skoda UK and they got a dealer in Liverpool to call me and arrange to get it fixed sooner than the less than helpful Mitchell group.  The Service manager said that Skoda will only cover the issue under warranty if the car has done less than 3,125 miles (5,000km), otherwise the owner has to stump up approx £400 to get it recalibrated! He said that he's had quite a few of these in where the customer has had to pay.

 

I'm a bit concerned with this now since I'll probably do another 17,000 miles by the end of the year which at £400 every 2,600 miles is going to be pretty costly!

[Superb170]

On ‎23‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 16:20, Kenton said:

I complained to Skoda UK and they got a dealer in Liverpool to call me and arrange to get it fixed sooner than the less than helpful Mitchell group.  The Service manager said that Skoda will only cover the issue under warranty if the car has done less than 3,125 miles (5,000km), otherwise the owner has to stump up approx £400 to get it recalibrated! He said that he's had quite a few of these in where the customer has had to pay.

 

I'm a bit concerned with this now since I'll probably do another 17,000 miles by the end of the year which at £400 every 2,600 miles is going to be pretty costly!

What??  Where did they come up with the 5k kms from?  I know in my case it was not calibrated correctly at the factory so as long as it wasn't something that I caused myself (by physically hitting something for example) there was no question that I would be paying anything even if it happened again within the three year warranty period.  The fact that it happened to you so early on indicates a factory build issue therefore any reoccurrence is obviously related to that same issue so they are effectively washing their hands of a problem that is a genuine build issue.  It is a known issue at this stage so that response from Skoda is not good enough IMO.

[Kenton]

No idea, they are keeping to the same story though, they wanted to get it in and logged on their system before I hit 5,000km.  Took it this morning and they checked in and found that it does need to be recalibrated (not sure why they couldn't have just spoken to the previous dealer, but still!) and I've got it booked in for next week for a couple of days. 

 

The guy who gave me my keys bag seemed a bit cagey about telling where it would go to get fixed, just said "the place where we take it" and the "guys who've got the equipment to test it".  His colleague told me on Friday that it would go to Southport VW!  Guess they're embarrassed that they can't do it themselves!

 

Anyway, it took a while but at least they washed it!

Edited 26 June, 2017 by Kenton

[Kenton]

Well they had the car for a couple of days and now it's fixed. After giving back the completely inadequate Fabia 1.2 courtesy car (I asked if there was anything else and was told no), I asked if it was likely to happen again and was told that he couldn't say. 

 

So brilliant... lots of confidence in the car now!

[Superb170]

9 hours ago, Kenton said:

Well they had the car for a couple of days and now it's fixed. After giving back the completely inadequate Fabia 1.2 courtesy car (I asked if there was anything else and was told no), I asked if it was likely to happen again and was told that he couldn't say. 

 

So brilliant... lots of confidence in the car now!

Mine never gave any trouble since I had it recalibrated and that was five months ago.  Hopefully yours is the same.

[skodarog]

my Nov 2015 SE-L Exec 190 DSG had this problem after owning it for 6 months / 6000 miles.

My local Swindon Skoda dealer didn't have the equipment. 
VW and Audi dealers weren't interested in even listening to me to see if they would do it.

Had to travel to the Bristol dealer - same company as the one which i bought it from brand new - and £250 lighter it is now working. They refused to entertain a warranty repair, and reckoned it just went out of calibration. Not impressed, but 1 year later (touch wood) and i've not had any issues, but each time the washer fluid warning light comes on i panic just in case its the same issue.

Thank you reminding me of this - i've just enquired about a new Superb sportline from the same dealer - and considering they charged me to recalibrate a system i'd have expected to last longer than 6 months, i'll have to remind them of this when negotiating.

[Superb170]

50 minutes ago, skodarog said:

my Nov 2015 SE-L Exec 190 DSG had this problem after owning it for 6 months / 6000 miles.

My local Swindon Skoda dealer didn't have the equipment. 
VW and Audi dealers weren't interested in even listening to me to see if they would do it.

Had to travel to the Bristol dealer - same company as the one which i bought it from brand new - and £250 lighter it is now working. They refused to entertain a warranty repair, and reckoned it just went out of calibration. Not impressed, but 1 year later (touch wood) and i've not had any issues, but each time the washer fluid warning light comes on i panic just in case its the same issue.

Thank you reminding me of this - i've just enquired about a new Superb sportline from the same dealer - and considering they charged me to recalibrate a system i'd have expected to last longer than 6 months, i'll have to remind them of this when negotiating.

I'd certainly remind them of that when dong another deal.  I can't believe that dealers are charging this. Once it is clear you didn't actually crash or damage the car yourself, what makes this fault any different from any other mechanical or electrical fault?

Edited 6 July, 2017 by Superb170

[skodarog]

Just now, Superb170 said:

I'd certainly remind them of that when dong another deal.  I can't believe that dealers are charging this. Once it is clear you didn't actually crash or damage the car yourself, what makes this fault any different from any other mechanical or electrical fault?

precisely. At the time i'd heard that a recalibration was c.£450, so was relieved at £250 - so didn't fancy arguing. At the time it was uncommon too, as i'd not heard any others experiencing the same. Now it appears more common, so wish i'd argued my case.

i wonder if i had rear ended someone when the front assist was not working, if the insurance  company would have had a gripe with skoda, as no doubt the insurance category is determined by the safety features helping to reduce rear end shunts?

[stever750]

Mine did this, briefly on the M4 last week, and fixed itself after a couple of minutes....

[alpinehut]

I’ve got this problem on my Superb MkIII and have been told by my dealer that it doesn’t come under warranty: they say a stone could do this or you can just get bumped in a car park. I don’t really fancy paying £199 for the repair. Has anyone succeeded in getting this done under warranty? Thanks and best, Alpinehut.

[hwr1983]

I would ask them if they can prove it was damaged (however intentionally).  If they can't then they can't assume its been damaged and should be covered under warranty... and the customer is always right afterall

[alpinehut]

Thanks hwr- I tried that but unfortunately their reply is that the codes thrown up in their diagnostics say otherwise and that Skoda won’t accept it as a warranty i.e. manufacturing defect as soon as they see the codes. They pointed out tiny scratches on the radar cover (see photo - yes, quite, you’d need a microscope!) which a stone might have caused.... So obviously I need the car and coughed up. Hmmmm. Next step Customer Services. Will tell you if I get any joy..

 

[silver1011]

My word.

 

Anyone who is being palmed off and paying for calibration whilst the car is under warranty is being done over.

 

If there isn't any obvious damage to the radar cover i.e. it is missing, has moved, or has a big chunk missing then I'd be telling Skoda UK to come and collect the car off my drive, it clearly isn't fit for purpose. The radar is behind the cover i.e. protected by it! Small scratches is not sufficient evidence of damage.

 

£250!? Out of your own pocket? On a car under warranty?

 

Time to dig in and kick up a stink.

[Adrian55555]

Manufacturer warranties are getting tighter and tighter and you have to bear in mind its not just about claims getting thrown out. If a claim is put on the warranty system (saga/2) and it automatically gets approved by the system without skoda uk checking 1st, you get paid that claim.  Come audit time as a warranty manager you are allowed a 2% error rate out of 60 random claims that they decide to audit.  Bear in mind 2% is very very little, thats a customer signature and 1 incorrect technicians write up! Most dealers get around an average 5-10% error rate and what this means is you get a fine. It is extrapolated from all claims total in the past year. Usually around £1m if a medium to large dealership.  So to make it easier if u got a 10% error rate you will be fined £100,00k, which is an awful lot of money and a lot of warranty clerks have been sacked after an audit.   

 

This is why if theres any doubt or as mentioned if a specific code is thrown up etc which skoda say isnt a warrantable item, its not covered, simple as that.  

Edited 10 October, 2018 by Adrian55555

[millerhouse]

My car was 9 months old when I bought it and I had this fault earlier this year when the car had covered around 10,000 miles. Dealer had it fixed under warranty - no arguments even though it had to go to another local dealer as mine didn't have the necessary equipment. Two months later, while on holiday in Germany, it went off again while driving in slow traffic on the Autobahn. After two more days, it just as mysteriously started working again while driving at speed on the Belgian Autoroute. It's been OK ever since. It seems to be something of a lottery. Although I could survive without the adaptive option, I wouldn't want to lose Cruise Control and if this fault occurs, it shuts down the whole Cruise Control system which is doubly annoying

John M

[Adrian55555]

You may find some dealers carry it out in warranty, whether the dealer gets paid for it is another matter. 

[fabdavrav]

OK i'll try to be brief here as I had huge problems on my MK7 Golf early this year...& mine is exposed in the lower grill...

 

Get access to the unit itself...it is mounted on three legs...each leg has a ball joint on the end which fit into a spring cup/socket....two are adjustable...(do not adjust)

 

I found mine had "bounced" out of two of them...but ever so slightly & the first time I inspected it & wiggled it it felt firm....it was only when I tried to move it in a particular way that it actually moved...so just push back into the sockets....take for a drive...no problems..

 

 

I also did a thread on Rosstech….basically the car at factory is set up 100% level etc & the unit is told that the car is level & the unit is at 90deg to road etc..so it saves the reading it gets from its own internal sensor....it also saves the reading from the main cars gyroscope....& compares the deviation between the two....& stores these values. If the values are within the spec limits it says ok I can work..if not it throws a fault code/light..

 

 

Every time you switch the ignition on it compares the deviation values is see if the unit has moved relative to the car....

 

so check the unit & push back in..switch the ignition on & if the lights go then all ok.....

 

there is a soft rest test /rest in VCDS for this which does not involve the domino boards etc...

 

Edited 13 October, 2018 by fabdavrav

[alpinehut]

Hi, thanks very much for this. Might try it next time, though I’m obviously hoping there won’t be one. From what you say it sounds as if the unit could potentially go out of true if you were carrying an unusually heavy load in the boot.... ? 

[fabdavrav]

4 minutes ago, alpinehut said:

Hi, thanks very much for this. Might try it next time, though I’m obviously hoping there won’t be one. From what you say it sounds as if the unit could potentially go out of true if you were carrying an unusually heavy load in the boot.... ? 

 

No it won't as it checks for deviation between its own inbuilt gyroscope & the main Car gyroscope......that can only occur if the unit is knocked out of alignment from the cars main gyroscope

 

Carrying a heavy load will register the same level/tilt in both gyroscopes....

 

 

If the radar unit has only its gyroscope to go on how does it know that the car is driving up a hill say & that the tilt the radar unit sees correct??...so it has to get the cars "level" from the  cars main gyroscope in order to set a "base" level...

 

This is why the initial factory domino board set up is complex....to get the car 100% level & the radar unit correctly pointing at 90 deg to road & across the car (in simple terms)….this set up has an allowable deviation from 0.0000 for both units..so the combined deviation of each unit can be greater ….so it measure the actual deviation difference.....

 

so car main unit= 0.3vert & 0.2 horizontal

radar = 0.05vert & 0.05 horizontal

actual deviation is 0.25vert & 0.1.5 horizontal..this it stores & checks all the time.

 

Now there is an allowable deviation from the actual deviation...basically to stop the fault code being triggered too early/sensitive…...so the actual deviation between the two units may be 0.5.

[silver1011]

On 10/10/2018 at 19:27, Adrian55555 said:

Manufacturer warranties are getting tighter and tighter and you have to bear in mind its not just about claims getting thrown out. If a claim is put on the warranty system (saga/2) and it automatically gets approved by the system without skoda uk checking 1st, you get paid that claim.  Come audit time as a warranty manager you are allowed a 2% error rate out of 60 random claims that they decide to audit.  Bear in mind 2% is very very little, thats a customer signature and 1 incorrect technicians write up! Most dealers get around an average 5-10% error rate and what this means is you get a fine. It is extrapolated from all claims total in the past year. Usually around £1m if a medium to large dealership.  So to make it easier if u got a 10% error rate you will be fined £100,00k, which is an awful lot of money and a lot of warranty clerks have been sacked after an audit.   

 

This is why if theres any doubt or as mentioned if a specific code is thrown up etc which skoda say isnt a warrantable item, its not covered, simple as that.  

 

All useful and interesting information, but Skoda UK's targets don't detract from the terms and conditions of their new car warranty.

 

If they spell out in black and white that the front assist radar and/or it's calibration isn't covered then fair enough. If not, and there is no obvious damage to the equipment then it's a genuine warranty claim.

[Adrian55555]

Generally speaking in the warranty guidelines. Calibrations arent covered under warranty due to it being an adjustment. (6 months 6000 miles) Only times it can be is if there is a manufacturers issue. Eg tpi, technical bullitin etc.  The way they see it is, something has caused it to go out of callibration. Some dealers may do it as a goodwill gesture.  When putting claims down anything over age and mileage gets rejected instantly, when putting the code for calibration (adjustment)  

[silver1011]

If Skoda UK can't be bothered to properly spell-out what is and isn't included under their 6 month / 6,500 mile exclusions then I'd be investing in some graphics for the side of my car...

 

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/downloads/brochures/SKODA_Warranty_Terms_August_2018_New_Car-1.pdf