Fabia not starting (fuel issues)

[7600ee]

36 minutes ago, usedabused said:

get some clear fuel pipe and see how much air is in your fuel lines.

just the short sections from the fuel filter to the metal pipes on the front.

The cheep cables are ok of ebay but you really do need to monitor fuel flow with full vcds ask around on any of the vag forums for someone closer with a full setup that knows what they are doing...

 

instead of changing batterys your best off fitting the og battery fully charged and use jump leeds off another vehicle running only place the negative clamp on a solid part of the poorlys cars engine..

 

I'll give that a go but I think the batterys doing alright. Why would I only place the negative clamp on? And I will try get a hold of some clear hose to see how much air is in, it is rather loud. 

 

4 minutes ago, usedabused said:

The pd is a very refined power plant and unless you are fully clued up on them leeve well alone ,its no good using old style deisel engine diagnosis on these machines...

 

My money is on injector seals,,,

 

Read this

 

I'll try tightening the injectors bolts then as you suggested as i've not had a chance yet, will update later on

[sepulchrave]

26 minutes ago, usedabused said:

 

 

DUDE..

 

Do your homework..

 

The first pds were not even fitted with a lift pump .

The lift pump is only there to improve power and responce.

 

Find me a Fabia PD without a lift pump in the tank, because this is the Mark 1 Fabia forum so we're talking about that, also the OP definitely has a lift pump because he's already changed it for a new one, so if a PD engine has a lift pump it has to work.

 

No homework needed, I'll leave that to the armchair enthusiasts, I'm a practical guy.

[usedabused]

When connecting jump leads to asist starting the engine the doner power needs to run through the starter only,otherwise youll just be trickle charging the battery..

 

Direct from the holey grail that is halfords.. Dont forget your goggles

 

Yours is a three cylinder right??

[7600ee]

Just now, usedabused said:

When connecting jump leads to asist starting the engine the doner power needs to run through the starter only,otherwise youll just be trickle charging the battery..

 

Direct from the holey grail that is halfords.. Dont forget your goggles

 

Yours is a three cylinder right??

 

Ah right thanks makes sense I suppose. 

Yeah 3 cylinder, was told its the 1.9 without a cylinder basically. 

Any tips for tightening up injectors? 

[SuperbTWM]

I think you need to do a proper diagnosis before you start ripping into the engine on a whim to tighten the injectors up.

 

Do you have revs on the rev counter when cranking?

[7600ee]

2 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

I think you need to do a proper diagnosis before you start ripping into the engine on a whim to tighten the injectors up.

 

Do you have revs on the rev counter when cranking?

 

Alright I'll hold off a bit. Yeah but not much, under 1k only maybe 500 but the dial does move a wee bit 

[usedabused]

2 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Find me a Fabia PD without a lift pump in the tank, because this is the Mark 1 Fabia forum so we're talking about that, also the OP definitely has a lift pump because he's already changed it for a new one, so if a PD engine has a lift pump it has to work.

 

No homework needed, I'll leave that to the armchair enthusiasts, I'm a practical guy.

 

Your full of **** thats what you are I fix these for a living do you seriusly believe the skoda power plants are totally nuetral to the rest of the VAG range???

 

 

@7600ee

 

Im sorry mate im done with these "experts" on this forum..

 

Message me if you want some real time advice from a professional ..

[sepulchrave]

3 minutes ago, usedabused said:

 

Your full of **** thats what you are I fix these for a living do you seriusly believe the skoda power plants are totally nuetral to the rest of the VAG range???

 

 

@7600ee

 

Im sorry mate im done with these "experts" on this forum..

 

Message me if you want some real time advice from a professional ..

 

You're a bit new here aren't you, this is not about being right, it's about helping people. I was right about the fuel pump relay wasn't I, there's no need to be rude just because we don't agree.

[john999boy]

41 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 there's no need to be rude just because we don't agree.

 

Totally agree with that.

[SuperbTWM]

1 hour ago, 7600ee said:

 

Alright I'll hold off a bit. Yeah but not much, under 1k only maybe 500 but the dial does move a wee bit 

 

well at least the crank sensor is working which can be a common no start fault but it does normally log a code anyway.

 

Where abouts are you? just wondered if you were close by to anybody that could lend a hand as once you have checked all the common issues its a bit hard to diagnose any further.

 

 

[7600ee]

On 8/2/2017 at 21:20, SuperbTWM said:

 

well at least the crank sensor is working which can be a common no start fault but it does normally log a code anyway.

 

Where abouts are you? just wondered if you were close by to anybody that could lend a hand as once you have checked all the common issues its a bit hard to diagnose any further.

 

 

 

I'm located in Dundee if anyone could lend a hand it would be greatly appriciated. Think I'll either break for parts or put in a garage if I'm no further on next week. 

 

My cable came today and here's what I'm getting so far (very irritating I don't have the full version). It wouldn't run many other components so thats all I've got to work with but if theres a component worth checking let me know. Is there a open source or free version of VCDS anywhere? 

 

 

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2
Thursday, 03 August 2017, 23:19:27.

Chassis Type: 6Y - Skoda Fabia I
Scan: 01,02,03,08,09,15,17,19,25,37,44,46,55,56,76
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine       Labels: 045-906-019-AMF.LBL
   Controller: 045 906 019 BQ
   Component: 1,4l R3 EDC 0000SG  7627
   Coding: 00102
   Shop #: WSC 13765
   VCID: 65BD3297EC79
   TMBNK46Y964594822     SKZ7Z0F3467866
5 Faults Found:
16955 -  Brake Switch (F): Implausible Signal
            P0571 - 35-00 -   -
18061 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
            P1653 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate
18027 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
            P1619 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
17932 -  Fuel Pump Relay (J17): Open or Short to Ground
            P1524 - 35-10 -   - - Intermittent
18044 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
            P1636 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes       Labels: 6Q0-907-37x-ABS.LBL
   Controller: 6Q0 907 379 AF
   Component: ABS 8.0 front   H04 0002
   Coding: 0002151
   Shop #: WSC 13765
   VCID: 817586079811
6 Faults Found:
18265 -  Load Signal: Error Message from ECU
            P1857 - 000 -   - - Intermittent
00287 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
            008 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
00532 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
            000 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01312 -  Powertrain Data Bus
            014 -  Defective - Intermittent
01314 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
            004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01317 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
            004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

 

 

ELECTRICS

Control Module Part Number: 6Q1 937 049 D

11 Faults Found:
01598 -  Drive Battery Voltage
        27-10 -  Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01316 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
        49-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01314 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
        49-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01309 -  Power Steering Control Module (J500)
        49-10 -  No Communications - Intermittent
01317 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
        49-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01312 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
        37-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01321 -  Control Module for Airbags (J234)
        49-00 -  No Communications
00920 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
        28-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
00906 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
        28-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
00975 -  Heated Rear Window (Z1)
        28-10 -  Short to Plus - Intermittent
01598 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
        07-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

 

 

[sepulchrave]

Clear all the codes and run it again, many of those are related to having a very flat battery.

 

No need to scrap it just yet, stick with the program 

[7600ee]

9 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

Clear all the codes and run it again, many of those are related to having a very flat battery.

 

No need to scrap it just yet, stick with the program 

 

Cleared the codes and that looks much better! 

 

Address 01: Engine   

2 Faults Found:
16955 -  Brake Switch (F): Implausible Signal
            P0571 - 35-00 -   -
18044 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
            P1636 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes    
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ELECTRICS

1 Fault Found:
01321 -  Control Module for Airbags (J234)
        49-00 -  No Communications
 

[sepulchrave]

So replace the brake switch, it's a common failure and does affect the engine idle settings.

 

The airbag controller has also gone tits up, those are the other two codes, but it won't stop it running and driving, it will fail the MOT though if the airbag light is lit after starting the engine.

[7600ee]

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

So replace the brake switch, it's a common failure and does affect the engine idle settings.

 

The airbag controller has also gone tits up, those are the other two codes, but it won't stop it running and driving, it will fail the MOT though if the airbag light is lit after starting the engine.

 

Thanks i've just read a bit about the brake switdh issues and have ordered a new one (arriving tues). I'll hold off on the airbag controller for the moment as I'm not bothered about MOT passing until I know it can run  

[7600ee]

Great news! Took a bit of effort to get it going but it runs. New brake light switch is in and it idles. Didn't get it out of the driveway but reverse, 1st and 2nd all work. Still sounds a bit off although it hasn't turned over for a couple years so I'm happy with that.

 

However, powersteering worked for a few minutes then stopped working. Also when I use the key to open the car (not the fob, in the actual key hole) it lets down both the front windows... 

 

Overall very happy I stuck through it. Thanks to all those who helped me, especially sepulchrave!Think next steps are new airbag controller, window module (?), window wipers etc to get it MOT worthy. Oh and bleed the powersteering

Edited 7 August, 2017 by 7600ee

[sepulchrave]

The lock just need a new spring fitting, if you hold the key the other way the windows will both close.

 

Power steering shutdown can be down to poor battery, check the alternator is charging it.

Edited 7 August, 2017 by sepulchrave

[7600ee]

13 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

The lock just need a new spring fitting, if you hold the key the other way the windows will both close.

 

Power steering shutdown can be down to poor battery, check the alternator is charging it.

 

The guy I got it off did mention the alternator may be broken so I've ordered a new one. Just checked and windows do close when I turn it the other way. Will get a new spring fitting as well. Thanks

[RichardatWakefield]

Hello 7600ee,

I've been reading through all of this (and coincidentally, my first Skoda was one of these 3-cyl PD-engined-Mk1 Fabias), I did wonder from the start if a faulty alternator diode was draining the battery;

 

I found this years ago on a diesel Rover Maestro when I went out in the dark to collect something I'd left in the car, noticed faint red battery warning light showing, turned out to be alternator diode failed, new/replacement unit cured it.

 

Also had similar happen on a Citroen Dyane 6, alternator is very exposed at top front of engine, road salt had got through the varnish on the copper windings, headlights getting steadily dimmer on a night trip; recovery truck called! The petrol ran its battery down quicker as spark ignition system constantly using juice.

 

Glad it's going, keep at it, enjoy the car once you've fixed it, nice solid car, quick above 2,000rpm,  look in Diagnostics and VCDS section if you need a member near you to do any more diagnostics, re-coding etc.

 

I got mine re-mapped up from 75bhp to 99bhp, and as much torque as the 4-cyl Rover "L" series 2-litre tdi fitted in the Rover 25 (177ftlbs).

 

And I can recommend Millers (of Brighouse) diesel power sport/eco fuel additive, using it will help clean up whole fuel system, their oils are great as well.

Richard

Edited 8 August, 2017 by RichardatWakefield
Accuracy.

[7600ee]

12 hours ago, RichardatWakefield said:

Hello 7600ee,

I've been reading through all of this (and coincidentally, my first Skoda was one of these 3-cyl PD-engined-Mk1 Fabias), I did wonder from the start if a faulty alternator diode was draining the battery;

 

I found this years ago on a diesel Rover Maestro when I went out in the dark to collect something I'd left in the car, noticed faint red battery warning light showing, turned out to be alternator diode failed, new/replacement unit cured it.

 

Also had similar happen on a Citroen Dyane 6, alternator is very exposed at top front of engine, road salt had got through the varnish on the copper windings, headlights getting steadily dimmer on a night trip; recovery truck called! The petrol ran its battery down quicker as spark ignition system constantly using juice.

 

Glad it's going, keep at it, enjoy the car once you've fixed it, nice solid car, quick above 2,000rpm,  look in Diagnostics and VCDS section if you need a member near you to do any more diagnostics, re-coding etc.

 

I got mine re-mapped up from 75bhp to 99bhp, and as much torque as the 4-cyl Rover "L" series 2-litre tdi fitted in the Rover 25 (177ftlbs).

 

And I can recommend Millers (of Brighouse) diesel power sport/eco fuel additive, using it will help clean up whole fuel system, their oils are great as well.

Richard

 

Hi Richard

 

Makes sense why theres a slow drain then, bit irritating it couldn't have shown on diagnostics but thanks for clearing that up. Puts my mind at rest knowing how / why it failed. Can't wait to get it going does seem alright for a 3 cylinder. 

A remap is top of my list (aside from essentials) as while 80bhp is not bad 100 is better :). Don't suppose you used blacksmoke or was it just a normal garage type one? I'm thinking blacksmoke remap at home with a cheap cable is the only thing in my budget. Oh and what would / did you change first after your remap if you don't mind me asking? I was thinking some 312mm brakes...

 

Got a bottle of redex earlier on tonight but will look into that for future, definitely needs a clean up. 

 

Thanks

[Breezy_Pete]

For charging system diagnostics, start with the quick, free and easy check:

 

[RichardatWakefield]

Hi again 7600ee,

These PD engines are only 2 valves per cylinder, so just 6 on your 3-pot.  And low-revs pickup is hindered by the fact the turbo is not a variable-vane type, but a trad wastegated type.

My Roomster is the 4-cyl version of this engine, it comes as standard with a variable-vane turbo, which gives me a more flexible unit, ie. the torque builds steadily from about 1200rpm, whereas with the Fabia, little happens until approaching 2,000rpm. We were able to get boost from about 1700rpm by de-gutting the cat canister, but you end up with a smutty tailgate area.

 

These PD ("Pumpe Duse", or electronic unit injector) engines are quite agricultural compared to the newer Common Rail injection engines. And if you re-map, low revs become VERY vibratory!

I don't know if anyone here has been able to convert to a variable-vane turbo; they are controlled by a complex vacuum box and pipes, and probably lots of software. I presume the vRS Fabias have all this kit as they are essentially the same engine as my Roomster.

 

And as my aim was max MPG, I didn't feel any need to upgrade brakes, wheels, tyres, antiroll bars etc.  I like the "wolf in sheep's clothing" sleeper effect!

 

The "console bushes" are prone to failure, symptom wandery steering, and bump-steer effects.  These are the big rubber bushes at the rear of the front suspension bottom (triangular) arm, and Roomster, being Mk2 Fabia front-end, suffers the same.  We replaced them with fairly standard on the Fabia, whereas with the Roomster I've gone for a pair of Mehle stiffer bushes, found via the web. But now get irritating front-end "chatter" on the ever more frequent broken/harsh surfaces.

 

Just before trading it in for the Roomster, I noticed exhaust fumes seeping in through the ventilation system at times, I suspect the EGR system was clogged up, anyway, I left that to the selling garage/new owner!

 

The engine requires oil specifically formulated for the PD engines, as I believe the unit injectors run directly off the camshaft, whose action pressurises the fuel, so loadings are high and oil needs to be top-notch. Millers do several oils that suit this engine, your Owners Manual will specify the relevant VW code (standard) that it must meet.

Do not take short-cuts with engine oil quality on these engines! 

Richard

Edited 10 August, 2017 by RichardatWakefield
Accuracy.

[7600ee]

4 hours ago, RichardatWakefield said:

Hi again 7600ee,

These PD engines are only 2 valves per cylinder, so just 6 on your 3-pot.  And low-revs pickup is hindered by the fact the turbo is not a variable-vane type, but a trad wastegated type.

My Roomster is the 4-cyl version of this engine, it comes as standard with a variable-vane turbo, which gives me a more flexible unit, ie. the torque builds steadily from about 1200rpm, whereas with the Fabia, little happens until approaching 2,000rpm. We were able to get boost from about 1700rpm by de-gutting the cat canister, but you end up with a smutty tailgate area.

 

These PD ("Pumpe Duse", or electronic unit injector) engines are quite agricultural compared to the newer Common Rail injection engines. And if you re-map, low revs become VERY vibratory!

I don't know if anyone here has been able to convert to a variable-vane turbo; they are controlled by a complex vacuum box and pipes, and probably lots of software. I presume the vRS Fabias have all this kit as they are essentially the same engine as my Roomster.

 

And as my aim was max MPG, I didn't feel any need to upgrade brakes, wheels, tyres, antiroll bars etc.  I like the "wolf in sheep's clothing" sleeper effect!

 

The "console bushes" are prone to failure, symptom wandery steering, and bump-steer effects.  These are the big rubber bushes at the rear of the front suspension bottom (triangular) arm, and Roomster, being Mk2 Fabia front-end, suffers the same.  We replaced them with fairly standard on the Fabia, whereas with the Roomster I've gone for a pair of Mehle stiffer bushes, found via the web. But now get irritating front-end "chatter" on the ever more frequent broken/harsh surfaces.

 

Just before trading it in for the Roomster, I noticed exhaust fumes seeping in through the ventilation system at times, I suspect the EGR system was clogged up, anyway, I left that to the selling garage/new owner!

 

The engine requires oil specifically formulated for the PD engines, as I believe the unit injectors run directly off the camshaft, whose action pressurises the fuel, so loadings are high and oil needs to be top-notch. Millers do several oils that suit this engine, your Owners Manual will specify the relevant VW 4-digits code (standard) that it must meet.

Do not take short-cuts with engine oil quality on these engines! 

Richard

 

I was thinking decat but went off the idea because of the price. I've not heard of de-gutting the cat before but just looking there seems like a good option. I'm not bothered about a bit more smoke or whatever as long as its not out of control. I would much rather have the extra power from the lower revs rather than just higher as you said. 

 

I think changing any of that is out of my expertise! Although rather interesting the way these engines work. 

 

I also appreciate the wolf in sheep's clothing effect, did degutting your cat have any effect on the noise of the car though? Wanting to stay on the goodside of the neighbours!

 

Read a bit about the poor console bushes and I'll see how it drives but a relatively low cost fix imo. Got a full bottle of quantum (or something like that) engine oil from the guy i got it from, with a new filter. So that went in last night along with new filter but in future millers will be on the list

 

Thanks

 

 

[RichardatWakefield]

Hello again,

De-gutting the cat canister was done by a small garage over in Lancashire, it was removed from under the vehicle once up on hoist, bench vice, hacksawed open adjacent to one of the endplates, contents prised out, and then very neatly re-welded back together.  Passed several MOT's like this.  No change to exhaust note or volume, but rear of car became sootier sooner/ needed washing more often. The catalyst core was pretty bunged up after about 4 years of use, mostly under it's previous owner.

 

You could try getting that done first, along with better oil and a good fuel additive, might pep up the performance sufficiently...... But MOT stations may be more on the alert now for removed/ de-activated DPF's, EGR's, catalytic converters.

 

Fabia re-map was RS Tuning in Leeds, Roomster re-map Darkside Developments near Barnsley.

 

Likely to be somewhere near you (Dundee) that can assist.  Both re-mappers had on-site rolling-road, did a "before" assessment of condition, oil quality and state, output before any mods.

Roomster lists at 105bhp, was giving 117bhp pre-mods! Darkside say these engines, once loosened up, frequently produce more power than VW quote, so bear that in mind.

 

And also discuss your proposed mods with your insurers, some will accept them, others won't.  Get an agreement as to what percentage power increase they will accept, get your tuner to stick to that, get before- and after RR graphs produced of BHP and torque, make sure you have them available should your insurer insist.

 I now use Chris Knott who advertise on here.

HTH

Richard

[sepulchrave]

12 hours ago, RichardatWakefield said:

These PD ("Pumpe Duse", or electronic unit injector) engines are quite agricultural compared to the newer Common Rail injection engines. And if you re-map, low revs become VERY vibratory!

I don't know if anyone here has been able to convert to a variable-vane turbo; they are controlled by a complex vacuum box and pipes, and probably lots of software. I presume the vRS Fabias have all this kit as they are essentially the same engine as my Roomster.

 

Dude, all diesel turbos are variable vane, have been since the early 90's, I literally have no idea why you would imagine otherwise.

PD unit injection was simply a stop-gap until CR units became reliable enough to transition, there really isn't a lot of difference in performance terms, however CR gives better economy and lower particulate emissions.

I'm not a fan of de-catting at all, the cat deals with some of the nasty NOx, clogging is caused by use as a shopping trolley and is nowhere near as bad as the DPF on a CR which clogs really badly. You will not pick up any power at all fannying around with the exhaust system, that's petrol engine stuff, VGT's rely on decent gas speeds in the system and anything that opens up the exhaust lowers gas speeds.