Superb Xenon Issue

[Legfitter]

No, on the piece of paper I have been given it just says "Check for headlights not finishing cycle and pointing down. Confirmed complaint and carried out software update."

 

I had two other minor glitches with one of the steering wheel rollers and the torch in the boot. Issued parts are listed for these repairs. No parts are listed other than these so it must just be software.

 

If it helps, my car was taken to Bickerton's Skoda in Sheffield. They could contact them to find out more details maybe? 

 

 

[Fatso]

My car spent a full day in the dealers last week to investigate this issue.

 

On 2 occasions since then it has taken 5 restarts to get the Xenon headlights to work properly.

 

Does this problem make the car unfit for purpose under consumer laws?, and would it be legal to drive on a night with the headlights in the emergency position?

[xman]

It would fail the new Mot from May 2018, therefore its not roadworthy

 

mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf

 

See section 4.1

[Legfitter]

22 minutes ago, Fatso said:

My car spent a full day in the dealers last week to investigate this issue.

 

On 2 occasions since then it has taken 5 restarts to get the Xenon headlights to work properly.

 

Does this problem make the car unfit for purpose under consumer laws?, and would it be legal to drive on a night with the headlights in the emergency position?

 

Did it actually have the software update done though? 

[Fatso]

1 minute ago, Legfitter said:

 

Did it actually have the software update done though? 

I don't know. They just told me that they hadn't been able to find anything wrong with it, so I would suspect not.

 

To say I am unimpressed with a 4 month old car needing 5 restarts to be usable when I have to leave home at 7am is an understatement.

[xman]

7 minutes ago, Fatso said:

I don't know. They just told me that they hadn't been able to find anything wrong with it, so I would suspect not.

 

To say I am unimpressed with a 4 month old car needing 5 restarts to be usable when I have to leave home at 7am is an understatement.

 

Grounds for rejection I would say

[Legfitter]

Well, if it is the same issue, I found that pressing the ignition once, waiting for the lights to come back up and then pressing my foot on the brake and pressing start again would prevent me getting a problem. Hope that helps!? 

[Fatso]

4 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Grounds for rejection I would say

That's one option I intend to look in to.

[CheshireBumpkin]

1 hour ago, Fatso said:

That's one option I intend to look in to.

 

Each to their own, but with something where a software update can potentially solve the problem, you seem quite keen to reject the car. Are you having other problems too?

[xman]

Having to faff about at 7am on a dark winter's morning before you can set off is a pretty serious issue. 5 restarts?  Ok let them have a go at repairing it, but you can't drive on the dark without lights! Its not as if this is a new feature on a newly released car. The superb mk3 was launched in 2015, why does it suddenly need software updates to make the lights work?

[Pidge_Sportline]

As LegFitter said earlier, a straight forward work around can be used which while not ideal on a brand new car, it does get around the issue...  I plan on persevering with my local dealer but I am used to using the workaround now.

[Mindbomb]

12 hours ago, xman said:

The superb mk3 was launched in 2015, why does it suddenly need software updates to make the lights work?

 

Some other code which runs at start-up (say, measuring outside temperature to determine whether to enable stop/start) now takes .15 seconds longer to complete, leading to a race condition/timing glitch/low voltage/you name it ad that now interrupts the completion of the headlight diagnostics and leaves them in a weird state.

 

Could be caused by any number of external factors, which are now only relevant since update X fixed issue Z

[xman]

In other words, safety critical software has been broken by novice programming/inadequate testing. 

 

Does this bode well for the future?

[dg360]

In testing, it's essentially impossible to test all possible combinations of inputs for all but the simplest systems.  So it's going to happen.

[Mindbomb]

4 hours ago, xman said:

In other words, safety critical software has been broken by novice programming/inadequate testing. 

 

Does this bode well for the future?

 

Sadly, with the complexity of software these days it's exceptionally difficult to test all combinations of factors. Perhaps the test cases for the headlight code didn't cover what happens when a particular patch is applied to improve the stop/start mechanism AND the car was parked the night before in the middle of a DPF clean, AND the temperature dropped to under 4 degrees C overnight AND the measured voltage in the battery is right on the cut-off point for enabling stop/start.

 

Now that real-life testing has shown that people are experiencing a weird lighting glitch, the bug is reported, replicated, fixed and the test cases are improved to cater for more situations. That's how things work these days - you produce a product which you feel is good, release it and then watch as your users break it in ways you didn't think of.

 

As for does it bode well for the future... we're getting better at it. Programming languages like 'Rust' make it considerably harder to write code which suffers from things like memory leaks and race conditions but there's no substitute for giving idiot-proof code to idiots...

 

source: I write software for a living. This kind of stuff happens daily.

[Fatso]

19 hours ago, CheshireBumpkin said:

 

Each to their own, but with something where a software update can potentially solve the problem, you seem quite keen to reject the car. Are you having other problems too?

I'm not keen to reject the car at all. For it's primary purpose of cruising on the motorway at 70mph it's great, and I can't think of anything better for the price with the comfort and the kit which is why I bought it.

 

I am still a bit peeved that I have had to faff about restarting the car several times to get the headlights to work so I can use the car in anything other than perfect daylight though. (And I'm sure I'm not endearing myself to my neighbours firing a diesel up several times first thing in the morning!)

 

Today my car had to be started twice this morning to get the headlights sorted, but getting in it tonight I started it up and the headlights did their routine and worked perfectly first time.

[Fatso]

Does anyone know what software update is supposed to cure this issue?

 

I've just had to start my car 7 times to get the headlights to level up so that I could drive home at midnight. I'm absolutely sick of it to be honest. 

[JR RS]

2 hours ago, Fatso said:

Does anyone know what software update is supposed to cure this issue?

 

I've just had to start my car 7 times to get the headlights to level up so that I could drive home at midnight. I'm absolutely sick of it to be honest. 

 

7 times!! geez!!
 

have u tried pressing the Ignition first without the foot on the brake - waiting 2-3 secs - then pressing the Igniton again but this time with the foot on the brake.

guranteed to work 99.99%.

[Fatso]

I never put my foot on the brake, I use hand controls. 

 

I have tried pressing the starter and waiting and it makes no difference, the lights fail to level on a very regular basis and restarting the vehicle several times is the only way to get it sorted.

[Pidge_Sportline]

7 minutes ago, Fatso said:

I never put my foot on the brake, I use hand controls. 

 

I have tried pressing the starter and waiting and it makes no difference, the lights fail to level on a very regular basis and restarting the vehicle several times is the only way to get it sorted.

Sounds like you have a fault then as the workaround works 100% of the time for me.  

 

The reason son they fail to level is the power drain of the engine cranking... pressing the ignition without the break means the engine won’t start.

[Legfitter]

They didn't tell me what the update was. I would suggest you get you dealer to call Bickerton Skoda in Sheffield and ask their service department. Are you sure that your dealer doesn't know what the fix is now? It could be that the fix wasn't available from Skoda the last time you had it booked in. Also, did they see it in the error state? I it possibly did help that mine was exhibiting the fault when I got to the dealership.

 

PS: it hasn't been cold enough to be 100% sure, but I'm pretty certain that mine are fixed now. They certainly behave fundamentally differently. They do most of the reset now after the engine has fired and as I said before the process is much more akin to my old Superb II.

Edited 2 February, 2018 by Legfitter

[Mindbomb]

2 hours ago, Pidge_Sportline said:

The reason son they fail to level is the power drain of the engine cranking... pressing the ignition without the break means the engine won’t start.

 

 My lights have done this twice, to my knowledge. In my case, I've got into the car, hit the starter button to turn the power on and seen the headlight dance begin it's cycle and end too early. This is with no attempt to start the engine. When I do start the engine, it fires straight up and the lights stay in the down position.

 

I then turn the ignition off, and killing the power entirely.

 

I then do precisely the same process, and this time the headlights complete their entire cycle and point straight ahead, and again the the engine then fires straight up.

 

Doesn't look to me like there's any power starvation going on, as this has happened with a power on with no engine start and also with a power on and immediate engine start (brake depressed upon initial switch-on)

 

 

Of course, I can't replicate the issue on demand, so each evening I've been going outside and firing the car up, phone in hand, to take some pictures of where the lights end up pointing when it happens versus where they should point when everything works to plan, just so I can show the service department when I go into discuss it.

 

The car obviously knows this, and has been perfect all week.

[xman]

15 minutes ago, Mindbomb said:

 

The car obviously knows this, and has been perfect all week.

 

That's the solution. Threaten it with a dealer visit! 

 

 

[Fatso]

9 hours ago, xman said:

 

That's the solution. Threaten it with a dealer visit! 

 

 

 

I've booked my car in to the dealers to get them to investigate the problems with my xenons again, and they worked perfectly first time tonight...

[Legfitter]

Whether they work first time usually seemed to depend on how warm the engine was in my experience. It's usually when the engine is properly fully cold like it is first thing in the morning that the glow plug heats for longer causing the engine to fire a second later and interrupt the light reset sequence.

 

Hope they get the update sorted for you this time OK though.