1.4 TSI Startup Noise

[13TSI]

Hi All,

 

I thought I'd post here as my Leon uses the same engine as the Octavia's, the 1.4 TSI (150HP). It's a 2017 plate and we've had this awful noise at start up since we got it a few months ago. Looking around on the web it seems it may be quite common but I'm not sure what is causing it and if it's fixable or not. It's actually quite embarrassing to start the car up first thing in a morning with that racket! 

 

It'll do it without fail on every first start up of the day.

 

Anyway, I took a video of the sound this morning, hope someone can shed some light and whether its a common thing on this engine across the range and whether it should do it or not? 

 

 

 

Thanks

[Gaz]

My vRS does it, as does my Wife’s Polo GTI. Skoda told me it’s to do with how long the starter is programmed to be engaged for. I don’t think either of our cars do it as part of stop-start.

 

Gaz

[timmys]

My VRS TSI did this the other morning. It also threw up a Start/Stop error. Turned it off and restarted and everything was fine but it would great to hear any explanations as horrid noises increase my "big repair bill" coming stress levels through the roof.

[Guest]

We have 1.4tsi (150) on both our '17 Ateca and '17 Octavia - never heard anything like that. I'd have that noise checked out by dealership / try other cars on dealer's forecourt to see if they make the same noise. If there is a repair bill some years down the line, it always means you have written proof that the dealer had checked the car and deemed it ok.

[Gerrycan]

My 1.4tsi is 3 years old and developed that sound (not as long or loud though) on first start after about a year.

I'm not overly worried as it is reminiscent of the similar sounds on old cars when you had to turn and hold the start key in the crank position waiting for the engine to fire.  If the engine caught before you expected it and you still had the key turned so the starter was still cranking then you got a similar sound but the starter was already disengaged from the engine and I always thought that was the sound of the disengagement (freewheel/ratchet?) system. 

Sorry no idea what the correct technical terms are.

I don't remember anyone actually reporting any starter motor issues in the mk3 forum despite the huge number of automatic engine starts that occur with the stop/start system working in traffic.

 

Having said that the posted sample is a lot worse than mine.

[SC03OTT]

My current vRS has done this from day one. As did my last, which I had for 3 years. I’m sure I read what it was. Some pump or something priming. Can’t remember the exact explanation. 

[13TSI]

Thanks guys,

 

As I say, it's done this from day 1 and it's less than a year old. A family member has an Audi Q2 with the same engine and although a LOT quieter, I can still hear that noise on a cold start. Albeit, you have to listen very hard.

 

It's a lease car so hence why I'm not racing to the dealers worried what it might be, But I guess I'll book it in since a lot of you think it's not normal. We only have it until next July as it's a 24 monther. It needs the passenger door handle looking at too as it's sticking.

 

[TheITGuy]

My wife's Audi A3 that has the 1.4 TSI COD engine also makes this noise on starting.

[xman]

I heard something similar on a brand new not yet sold Passat 1.4tsi with act. . I was in front of the open bonnet when the salesman started the car. Thought "that didn't sound good" like something lacking oil/pressure briefly. Brought back bad memories of expensive tsi camchain problems denied by VAG for so long.

 

Could be the variators (hydraulically operated cam phasing) draining when stood a long time.

[FluffyEyeball]

My 2.0 TSI has done it since I bought it, did some digging ages ago and the consensus was that it is normal. Still not sure exactly what causes it though.

[Alunakis]

Hi,

I think this TPI will give the explanation:

 

Technical product information

Transaction No.: 2037299/3

 

 

Service info, engine: howling noises at engine start from front end/engine compartment after a stationary period

 

Release date: 17-Sep-2015

 

Customer statement / workshop findings

 

Customer statement:

Howling noises at engine start from front end/engine compartment after stationary period.

 

Workshop findings:

The customer statement can be reproduced.

 

Technical background

 

Flowing noises in the engine oil pump. The flowing noises occur at the oil pressure is built up during the engine start. The flowing noises are particularly pronounced after a long stationary period of the vehicle.

 

For the clear assignment of the noises use the attached audio file.

https://youtu.be/aGW25kKc0Z0

 

The noises are construction-related and normal. There is no parts damage.

Production change

—

Measure

—

 

Customer information

 

The flowing noises occur at the oil pressure is built up during the engine start and are particularly pronounced after a long stationary period of the vehicle. The noises are construction-related and normal. There is no parts damage.

 

[xman]

Quote

There is no parts damage.

 

B*******

 

Cam phasers empty of oil on cold start. 

 

[fabdavrav]

Also can be exacerbated by the small batteries that VAG fit not being up to the job...thus the start up is longer..

 

Fit a bigger battery....

[glosrich]

I was told its the injectors, they are noisy until the engine settles down to an idle.

[13TSI]

So, the Leon was in today for a couple of other bits and I thought I'd mention this noise to the tech.

I showed him the video I'd recorded and he agreed it sounded like the starter motor sticking or spinning for too long.

He went in, had a word and advised that starter motors are on back order of about two weeks at the moment (wonder why!) and to bring it back and leave overnight sometime and they can see it happen on cold start and arrange for replacement.

 

He said no, it shouldn't make that noise, it's not normal.

[aki78]

My colleague has a brand new 2.0 TSI 280 Superb with the same starting noise. Whatever VAG says it sounds really bad...especially for an expensive new car.

[ianch99]

41 minutes ago, aki78 said:

My colleague has a brand new 2.0 TSI 280 Superb with the same starting noise. Whatever VAG says it sounds really bad...especially for an expensive new car.

 

He shouldn't be too sad, here's video of the Golf R400 Concept. Listen very carefully at the very beginning (approx. 3 secs in) when the car is started 

 

 

This noise is also discussed in these threads:

 

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8170

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2960

 

The second one verifies it is not the Starter Motor ..

 

[13TSI]

Funnily enough I was walking the dog round my estate this morning and noticed a brand new 67 plate Audi TT sitting on a driveway with the ignition on (lights but no engine).

 

As I walked past, they start the engine. Low and behold, the lovely loud sound as experienced in this thread!  Now...does the TT even use the 1.4TSI? I thought you could only get it now with a 1.8TSI or a 2.0TSI?

 

This must happen to all makes and models that use the 1.4TSI, 1.8TSI and 2.0 TSI engines. It doesn't bother me THAT much in my 21k Leon FR but I would not be best pleased in a 32k Superb or 33k TT black edition!

[Felvo]

I work across from a VW dealership and every single one of the line up do it when they start in the morning.

 

It goes, Golf R 2.0tsi, Golf GTI 2.0tsi, Golf Highline 1.4tsi, Tiguan 2.0tsi, Tiguan 1.4tsi. 

 

It's quite funny actually because if they do one after the other, all you can hear is RRRRR.... RRRRRR.... RRRRRRR.... RRRRRRRRRRR lol.

 

Oh and my Octavia does it too, only overnight standings though.

Edited 23 July, 2018 by Felvo

[Plantman]

Mine does this also. I thought it could be a fault but I think its the starter motor engaging for longer that is needed just in case the engine doesn't fire quickly enough.

 

Could be for winter etc when the car might take longer to crank. The noise as mentioned is the starter motor still spinning in case it needs to continue to crank the engine.

 

There will be a mech to disengage the starter when the car has fired up to prevent any damage to it of course.

Edited 23 July, 2018 by Plantman

[Plantman]

It only does this if the car has been sat for a number of hours though, such as over night. It never does this on the second start (start - stop for instance) of if I stop after a drive and then resume say after 2 hours or more.

 

Perhaps this only happens on cars with KESSY Stop start system?

Edited 23 July, 2018 by Plantman

[xman]

Its an oil pressure balancing thing that most 1.4tsi czca czda czea engines exhibit on cold start when oil has drained. As technical bulletins explain, its quite normal and is not damaging.

 

Edited 23 July, 2018 by xman

[Plantman]

Interesting, just followed those Golf forum posts and seen the TPI too.  Strange for sure but great to know I won't have to tackle the dealer of this being a fault

 

Explains why it only happens after many hours of the car being sat then, oil pressure requirement. Sounds lame as a noise goes but guessing it's designed to protect the engine so thumbs up I guess!

 

 

[Rodge]

And only on the larger engines? No reports in this thread of it affecting 1.2 or 1.0 litre engines.

[xman]

IMO its associated with the solenoid controlled and oil pressure operated cam phasers moving to correct setting or maybe even a calibration sequence.

 

1.0 and 1.2tsi don't have cam phasers afaik.